KIB Control Panel question

BywaysNW

Here is my Nucamp control panel with the battery button pushed.  What is it telling me?  Haven't plugged into shore power yet.  Solar app says trailer battery is just fine.  Why does this seem to say my battery is not fine?

The factory manual says only this about the Nucamp Control Panel:

"The nuCamp control panel is located near the main entrance door. On it you will find a tank fill level indicator, a battery charge level indicator and master switches to power lights and the water pump. Switch buttons will light up when activated."

That's it. The entire explanation of the famed nuCamp control panel.

falcon1970

It is telling you that your battery is "Charged."  If it had a "Low" charge only the bottom light would be illuminated.  In actually practice, all that silly indicator panel tells you is that the lights which illuminate have not burned out.  Gives you absolutely no useable information about your battery or your water tanks.
I don't have solar so I do not know what the solar controllers tell you about the state of the battery.  I installed a Victron battery monitor.  I believe they can be used with a solar controller as well.

AirBoss

While I agree the battery info may be less than comprehensive, I've found the tank information fairly useful and worth paying attention to. 

If you have solar, load the app to monitor battery health via Bluetooth on your phone.

pthomas745

What "solar app" do you have?  What is it telling you?

AirBoss

BTW, the lights are indicating the battery is fully charged.. as others indicated. I'd use the solar app almost exclusively...tho its worth  comparing the two from time to time.

MuttonChops

@BywaysNW ;  KIB brand tank/battery level panels have been around for years and years. Many trailer builders, like NüCamp, have OEM Custom graphics while the monitor itself is a basic KIB unit.

Does your Solar App provide voltage values?  If so use that information and the Current information and ignore the near useless KIB Panel.

Don't know which KIB PCB NüCamp is using.  Several years ago I found this table on KIB voltages.

Above table has 'Fair' at 12V . . . if really +/- 5% could be 11.4 to 12.6 . . . at real 12VDC running Alde will be iffy.

On Shore Power, KIB will have all four LEDs on (asumming convertor is working of course)

SweetlyHome

I've wondered about the voltage values associated with the lights as well.

I hope @MuttonChops chart is not at all related to the current panel.  6 volts is far beyond "Low", it is a dead battery.  

We don't have permanently installed solar so voltage can be an indicator, although not ideal, of battery charge status.  Once we start camping again measuring voltage in comparison to the panel lights is a must do project for us.  Has anyone else tried to do this?

pthomas745

So, a "Low" indication means "Replace Battery?"

SweetlyHome

@pthomas745, K-panel read out above does not apply to our T@B's.  Just trying to understand how our T@B panels work.  At what voltage does the Full light come on for example.  Based on this typical chart maybe the full light means the voltage is greater than 12.75 volts?  Does the Low Battery Light go off at 12.05 or 11.81 volts to indicate the battery should no longer be used to protect its life?



Just asking if anyone knows.

Sharon_is_SAM

I don’t think we have an official chart.  I do know that some owners have validated that what is labeled as “Good” was actually lower than what most members considered to be an adequate state of charge.

pthomas745

@SweetlyHome I was mostly just poking fun at that warning light.

The only way to match up the info from this panel to the state of charge of the battery would be by testing with a multimeter or installing a Victron and testing.

BywaysNW

The app that works with the Boondock solar panel is called Victronconnect. Screenshots attached.  One is from Apple app store. The other is from the app itself. Connects with Bluetooth. It's dark out now, but during the day it gives continuous readouts as well as history and trends. Keeps trailer battery topped up nicely so far, but we haven't been anywhere with our new toy (we've named it Covey) yet. Will report back.

Sharon_is_SAM

@BywaysNW - are all 4 lights lit on the KIB?  Does your Smart Solar controller show the current battery status?

SweetlyHome

Ditto @Sharon_is_SAM's question.

The solar panel / controller is consistently applying power to the system to charge and operate equipment in the T@B.  It is consistently noted here in the forum that all load and power to the battery must be removed for several hours before measuring voltage to determine battery charge status.

This is why so many install a battery monitor.

What does the Battery Voltage on the shown solar controller actually indicate?

ScottG

Good point, @SweetlyHome. My guess is that the built in monitor is essentially just a basic voltmeter--i.e. if there is input from solar or some other charging device it will suggest the battery is in a higher state of charge than it actually is. I'm curious if anyone with a built-in meter has confirmed this.

BywaysNW

The app provides a lot of different readings. Two fresh screenshots attached. It's early morning and the solar is oriented away from the sun, so just getting a low charge now. 

Sharon_is_SAM

So, that battery voltage is up-to-the-minute as opposed the OP’s historical range?  So, assuming there is some  load on your battery @BrianZ, Your SOC is probably higher.

SweetlyHome

@Sharon_is_SAM and @ScottG after some thought I'd guess the following based on each max and min being related to a day.

Max. = Highest voltage seen in the system for the 24 hour period.  (High Noon or converter running.)

Low = Lowest system voltage seen in the system for the 24 period.  (At night with, in this case, no significant load.)  Primarily the batter voltage.

On the second screen, instantaneous reading with little panel output and minor load.  

@BywaysNW, assuming your converter, is not on if you can increase your 12vdc load and see what happens to the instantaneous voltage.  I'm guessing it will drop.

BrianZ

Wrong name reference, @Sharon_is_SAM?
It's ok, I'll weigh in anyway..
I agree with previous comments that the Smartsolar app's status screen showing battery voltage is equivalent to putting a voltmeter on the battery terminals.  Whether or not you could infer the battery's current SOC from that depends on whether the solar is or has recently been charging it, and whether any significant loads (eg, >0.15A, say) have been disconnected for a while.  If no charging or loads present for an hour or more, say, then you could probably infer an approximate state of charge, by comparison to the battery manufacturer's spec sheet.
If @BywaysNW had shown the status screenshot from the Smartsolar app at the 8:49pm time, if the panel had been dark already & loads were switched off, then that could have been useful info from which to validate the KIB lights maybe.

I'm glad we've had the old SeeLevel with voltage reading (limited to tenths though), even though it's now surpassed by a Victron BMV Monitor for accuracy.  Still, it's good to have a backup.  For comparison testing this morning, I unplugged the AC converter/charger, waited an hour, then checked the battery directly with a Fluke 115 voltmeter and got 12.68V with loads off except the CO2/propane detector, SeeLevel & USB (<0.1A total).  Here's what the two built-in meters showed..

Our Trojan 1275 lead-acid golf cart battery (150AH) specs list 12.73V as 100% with open circuit (ours was not open, but in minimal use), and 12.62 as 90%.

MarkAl

Argh, this is so frustrating - reading these posts and waiting for our new 320 to be delivered. A lot of head knowledge. Has anybody tried to dig into the KIB to adjust the light trigger points for a 50% Lead-Acid battery? It appears the levels aren't known but the charts look a bit confusing that "fair" is maybe really "stop using electrical loads". Just realized from reading this that as I'll have the BD solar I will have a good voltage reading with the solar charger, and as soon as Victron ships more SmartShunts I'll know usage history...

Sharon_is_SAM

Yes the battery monitor is the answer!

MuttonChops

MarkAl said:

. . . anybody tried to dig into the KIB to adjust the light trigger points for a 50% Lead-Acid battery?

It appears the levels aren't known but the charts look a bit damning that "fair" is maybe really "stop using electrical loads".

Good to hear you will have a "real current monitor".
In general I believe if the KIB says Fair your battery is very near 50% SOC.

SweetlyHome said:

. . . hope @MuttonChops chart is not at all related to the current panel.  6 volts is far beyond "Low", it is a dead battery.

Would be nice if KIB has updated their technology but really doubt it. They are making good money with what they have . . . RV Builders want low cost, RV Buyers don't know any better.

The last time I "got into" a KIB Panel was 10-years ago.  The KIB battery voltage monitor was a very basic HARDWARE {semi-technical follows} arrangement of a reference voltage fed into a voltage divider with voltage comparitors 'comparing' the battery line voltage to each voltage divider step.  There were no adjustments to the system . . . you get what you get based on PCB quality, individual OPAMP (comparitor) quality.  And as I recall all parts were consumer grade, not industrial grade -- i.e. cheap

For someone that wants/needs to rely on the factory KIB Panel suggest they calibrate to actual battery voltage** under as low a load as possible.

Turn off everything, ideally use a variable VDC supply in place of battery, define when Your Panel switches from four to three LED on . . . not something the typical owner will or can do.  One could also drain the battery, then turn off everything and use a voltmeter to measure battery.  Either way, it takes some effort and time.

** As others have noted only way to get SOC Voltage is to fully disconnect battery and then wait.    Real world we have some level of background loads and maybe a solar panel so any Panel (KIB, SeeLevel, Current monitor) will be reporting the under load voltage.  I don't see any problem with that as long as you know more or less what's what.  Which is for KIB 'Fair' two LEDs - - - start recharging.

Side Note:
     My SeeLevel reads about 0.2 volts higher then the Alde Service Screen Voltage.  My Alde also will work when the Service Screen reads 12.0 volts (it cycles the propane on/off - - - lights burner for a few seconds then turns off - - - repeat). However the manual says gas shutdown is at 10.5 volts but not on mine . . .  so at least my unit needs a battery well above KIB 'Fair' to operate.

SweetlyHome

After reading all this I think I'll get a simple plug in voltage gage.  Did it that way for 6 years in the old T@B.  We don't have built in solar and rarely boondock so it seems tough to justify $200 monitor at the moment.  

SweetlyHome

@MuttonChops thanks for the description of how the KIB panel works.  

MuttonChops

SweetlyHome said:

After reading all this I think I'll get a simple plug in voltage gauge.
Did it that way for 6 years in the old T@B. 

Excellent solution!

BywaysNW

Thank you for the amazing response.  I wish my engineer dad were still around to tell his English major son what it all means.

Awca12a

@BywaysNW.  I would humbly suggest you check out this link. The panel is covered in detail along with a wiring schematic.  

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/8650/unofficial-nucamp-t-b400-resource-guide-finalized/p1

MuttonChops

BywaysNW said:

Thank you for the amazing response.  I wish my engineer dad were still around to tell his English major son what it all means.

LOL 
I was trained as a Mfg Engineer.
Will try to keep future comments "basic"
And please ignore my grammar, spelling, etc 🙂

MarkAl

Now w/ our 2021 320, I can see and test changes. I'm not planning on putting the Victron 70X display in (only the SureShunt) but want to monitor the battery better for dry-camping. Anyone's
thoughts on this: install a cig lighter socket on the tank monitoring display and plug (or kludge permanent) a simple 12V monitor into it but only power it when the unused old black tank button is pressed? As stock the only other one is hidden in the undersink cabinet which is very tough to see. Putting it by the converter is better but I'm afraid of kicking it and it's also hard to see. 

SweetlyHome

@markal, I have a similar idea to install a voltmeter.  Ordered one on Amazon, it's sitting on the work bench and want to take a run at installation soon.  I hope to remove the KIB panel, and parallel the volt meter across the existing battery lights so the meter comes on when the button is pressed. l'll mount the meter above the KIB panel. To get an accurate reading I may have to disconnect the KIB light circuit.  Will advise.