Hardwired Hughes Power Watchdog in 2021 T@B 400

ChrisFix

Installed the Hughes Power Watchdog surge protector in my 2021 T@B 400 (version with small fridge and closet). 
The area to install it on this model is behind the drawer that is directly below the closet. It's tight working quarters, but turns out there is plenty of room for the fairly large Watchdog to live.
I detached the main power supply line from the 30A connector on the side of trailer, and connected this wire to the output of the surge protector. 
I then added a new piece of wire that connects between the 30A connector and the input of the surge protector. This seemed the easiest way to gain enough slack in the wiring to be able to properly attach and tighten to the connector lugs on the surge protector and position the surge protector where it is not interfering with anything.
Working with the 10 gauge wiring is a little more difficult than typical 14 gauge house wiring because it is so stiff, but it is a straight forward installation.
Like everything, there are pros and cons to hardwired vs portable surge protectors, but I really liked the idea of it just being able to plug in with the surge protector out of the weather, out of the way and out of sight.
Hope this helps anyone thinking of installing something similar. 

Denny16

I hope you used #10 stranded wires and not solid copper?  If you used so,I’d wore, it needs to be secured to something solid, and where you have the wire connected to the Surge unit, the wire should be supported within 3-4 inches of the connection points, and ever 12-18 inches after that.  You can get away with leaving stranded wire unsupported, but again not a good idea.
cheers

MarkAl

Ok, I'll bite, why not solid in this application? If the wire run has some strain relief so it doesn't vibrate much I'd go with the solid core. In the pictured design the run is short but probably should have at least a zip tie to one or two of the screw points  to minimize the vibration potential, but I'd recommend this regardless of wire type in this application.  Solid is easier to find and to work with.

DougH

https://blog.jemelectronics.com/stranded-vs-solid-wire

Reading these pro/con descriptions I can see both sides.  High current, but if not well secured a good deal of movement.  Sadly I usually grab whatever is at hand at the time of an appropriate thickness... but secure it properly. I usually worry most about chafing and shorts if the insulation can get worn away heading down the road.

Denny16

Solid wire will fatigue at the point of connection if any movement is present, and in a camper, there is movement, no matter how well secured.  Boats I have worked in, always use stranded annealed, single-conductor tinted copper wire.  

That said, nüCamp and most of the RV seem to be using household type 8 or 10 gauge wire for 120 VAC circuits.  Personally, I would use stranded AWG wire, but that’s me.
cheers.

Bayliss

Interesting discussion.  Frankly, I had not previously given the differences a whole lot of thought, so I appreciate the link provided by @DougH .  Considering that the wiring is for a 30-amp connection, I would go with solid copper, which I believe is what nüCamp uses for the 30-amp plug wiring.  At least that is what I recall when I hard-wired my EMS, and it appears consistent with the photos posted by @ChrisFix.  My only frustration at the time I installed my EMS was that nüCamp did not leave any extra length/slack in the wiring, so it was a tight fit and I had to cut the existing wiring in just the right spot to mount the EMS where I wanted to.  If I were to do it again, I would do what @ChrisFix did and start with a new run of wire between the 30-amp plug connector and the EMS.  His installation looks clean and solid, so either type of wire should be OK.

ChrisFix

The 10 Gauge solid is what NuCamp uses from the 30A twist lock connector into the trailer...I only extended it by about 2.5'...I see no reason why I'd need 8 Gauge to replace the factory 10 Gauge in this application.
I think the point about vibration has merit...but I'm going to wire clamp near the connections and use it as is in the short term at least. 

DougH

And you now have excellent protection for all your camper electronics.

Denny16

I believe thr a RVIA code calls for using Stranded annealed, single-conductor copper wire within general purpose thermoplastic (GPT) insulation , which is standard for original equipment and replacement on vehicular equipment.

But Chris, it seems, for the 30 amp power connection, 8 or 10 gauge, duplex with ground cable is what nuCamp used, so go with that.  However, I would not recommend any hidden wire splices, they can lead to trouble. 

 Add a new bit of wire between the 30-amp plug and the surge unit, here I would use no.8 AWG stranded, because it will be easier to route and not create any hard spots or sharp bends.  Where nuCampm used solid household type wire, it is stapled down to eliminate any play.

Also Chris, you do not show the wire you added to the Surge unit has been secured anywhere, see how nuCamp has secured the wire in this area, you need to do the same, especially if you used solid wire.,
cheers

MarkAl

Good points brought out, my experience is mostly lower current applications where the heating effects is not a problem only voltage loss or application dependencies. I never appreciated the subtle cooling of the stranded wire over solid since the resistance is the same for the same gauge (diameter is slightly bigger for stranded).

ChrisFix

@Denny16
The 10 Gauge was not secured by NuCamp in any fashion differently than you see in the photo...it goes from the twist-lock connector and is loose and was formed very similarly to what you see, and then goes under the bed for it's first connection inside the trailer.
I agree that using 10 gauge stranded from the twist-lock connector to the surge protector would be a good idea, but the basic NuCamp install is very similar to what you see with the surge protector simply inserted in the middle.
And I will secure the wiring as soon as I get the appropriate clips tomorrow.

ChrisFix

@Denny16
The photos of the twist-lock with wiring is as delivered by NuCamp...that is before I removed it and added an additional piece of the same wiring to go from the twist-lock to the input side of the surge protector.
And I don't understand the comment about hidden splices...other than in general, I agree...but there are none with the surge protector installation.

Denny16

Chris, not in your install, that comment was for the comment made by someone who just spliced his, cutting the OEM cable and splicing a bit of wire to get is surge box installed.  My TaB has the wire secured.  Interesting, nuCamp didn’t secure your wires.
cheers

rhyno

We are considering an outdoor EMS device because these tend to buzz and I am certain to hear it if we were to get a hardwired model. Is there a way to dim or turn off the light for the dog's face on the
Hughes 30 amp Power Watchdog Smart Surge Protector + EPO?  We do not want to attract unwanted attention nor bother our neighbors with the bright light. 

Verna

I never heard anything from my EMS in the 400, and it was on the floor under the head of my bed. Just my insight....or in-ear......

VictoriaP

Verna said:

I never heard anything from my EMS in the 400, and it was on the floor under the head of my bed. Just my insight....or in-ear......

Some of us are a lot more sensitive to electronic noise than others. I can hear my portable EMS humming from about 3-4 feet away, and that’s outside. I also hear LED lightbulbs and sometimes standard household outlets. 

Verna

@VictoriaP, mine was a built-in unit, Progressive Industries, not a portable unit. 

MarkAl

I don't hear a buzz on my Hughes but I've lost much of my high frequency hearing... I also have the monitor installed under my bench seat so the light is not a problem. It's comforting to hear the relay(s) click ON a few seconds after I connect the shore power. It's an audible reminder that the power was good, so I rarely look at the unit. I occasionally will be intertested in the current draw using the Bluetooth app but that's it.

Sharon_is_SAM

@rhyno - how about some wide, black electrical tape or even a small, black, plastic bag that you can hang over the EMS.  We sometimes do that with our portable unit to keep the rain off as it is only water resistant.

TomCanada

@ChrisFix or others, what kind of fastener/screw do you use to attach to the wall of the tab?  I'm wary of screwing anything into the walls.  Is there a recommended fastener type/diameter/length for the outside walls?

Denny16

The outside wall is a composite of a thin fiberglass layer, then Azdel, foam and Azdel.  The Azdel panels are 1/4 inch thick, so a short sheet metal screw no longer than 3/8ths would work.  That said, I would mount it to a bit of plywood bonded with construction adhesive to the wall or floor, to avoid drilling into the trailer’s side wall.  Give the adhesive a day to bond, then mount your EMS and Bob’s your uncle... 
cheers

jkjenn

VictoriaP said:

Verna said:

I never heard anything from my EMS in the 400, and it was on the floor under the head of my bed. Just my insight....or in-ear......

Some of us are a lot more sensitive to electronic noise than others. I can hear my portable EMS humming from about 3-4 feet away, and that’s outside. I also hear LED lightbulbs and sometimes standard household outlets. 

I had one in my 2015 that had a hum/buzz from day 1. I finally filed a warranty claim with Progressive and they sent me a new one. No more buzz.

I had one installed in my 2021 T@b 320 and no buzz. 

ChrisFix

TomCanada said:

@ChrisFix or others, what kind of fastener/screw do you use to attach to the wall of the tab?  I'm wary of screwing anything into the walls.  Is there a recommended fastener type/diameter/length for the outside walls?

@TomCanada
 I used the short coarse threaded bolts provided by the EMS manufacturer, and bolted directly into the interior luan plywood wall. I was very careful to drill a small pilot hole and tighten just enough not to strip out the hole, which would be very easy to do. 
@Denny16 suggestion of gluing a piece of wood to the interior wall, and bolting to that is a good idea. If I had more time when I was installing mine, I'd have done something like that. But after about 8K miles of bouncing down the road, my install is rock solid. If I modify my install, it will probably be to add a hollow wall anchor of some sort into my existing holes, just for the additional grabbing power over the thin luan.
When you (or if you) remove the external 30A power connector from the camper, you'll clearly see the azdel, styrofoam insulation, and luan sandwich that you're dealing with (you can see it in the first picture at the top of this thread). That's at least an inch thick, so there is plenty of space to bolt from the inside without penetrating the exterior azdel side wall.

TomCanada

@ChrisFix thanks for the info - my understanding is that the inside surface is Azdel as well, not luan, but I follow what you're saying.  Does that surface have wallpaper on it?  If not, I should be able to bond a piece of wood as @Denny16 suggested quite easily, and then just use a plywood screw into that.  I like it!

ChrisFix

@TomCanada
I can assure you the inside walls are luan.
And yes, it has wallpaper on it, even behind the closet/drawers.

TomCanada

Hmm that's strange - maybe they switched it up ? Their site still shows Azdel on interior:

Denny16

Sorry Chris there is no Luan ply in an Azdel panel.  All interior added plywood bits, like in the under bed storage areas is Baltic and Birch ply.  Luan ply is like a sponge and absorbs water, swelling as it does so.  I had a leak (since the trailer had been built) around the outside outlet, leaked water for two years, no damage to the inside of the Azdel panel (see photo below).  If this I had been Luan ply on the inside, it would have distorted and become soft.  The panel aside from minor discoloration, was intact and sound.  The inside decor layer is a wall paper type covering (not actually paper, but more like a vinyl material).

Luan Ply is an inexpensive Asian softwood, which is readily pealed into thin layers to make cheap ply panels. This is a very specific type of ply, that once was popular with RV builders for its low price, and availability.  No all ply is Luan, or contains Luan.

My water leak area under the outlet box, the Azdel interior panel is intact.


Here is nüCamp’s description of the Azdel panel:  

ChrisFix

@TomCanada
I stand corrected. The interior wall panels are Azdel. The thinness and general feel is a lot like the thin luan ply found in many other RVs. But NuCamp says it's Azdel, and I believe them!
They're some good folks and build a fine camper...

TomCanada

Finally got my EMS installed today so thought I'd share.. The area behind the drawer looks a little different than the thread above as the A/C vent goes right across the wall.  In addition, the slack in the orange cable once disconnected from the receptacle was not enough to run to the location shown by @ChrisFix above, so I ended up installing a bit closer to the receptacle as shown below.  Finally, they changed the receptacle itself a bit - but nothing too tricky to figure out.  Pics below - hope they're useful to someone! 

As suggested above, I first glued a piece of plywood to the wall, then attached the EMS with screws to the plywood, rather than securing the EMS straight to the wall.  I still need to secure the wires but it's in there solid.  Tight fit for installation and - thank goodness for stubby screwdrivers . I can't count the number of times I bumped my head on the little metal fridge tab above as well lol.

I also put a small strip of foam under the unit to dim the faint hum coming from the box.  I don't think it did much, but once I got the drawer reinstalled I couldn't hear it anymore anyways. 

Final installed location:




Outdoor receptacle taken apart:


Finally, I installed the LED readout inside the Nautilus box so I could quickly/easily confirm power status when I plug into shore power:

Denny16

Nice nice job Tom, glad you got it all sorted and installed.
cheers

CharlieRN

I'm following this thread with great interest. I just took delivery of our 320 BD yesterday, and finally had a chance to look at the underseat area where the EMS will be installed. As @ChrisFix has done, I will also need to lengthen the run from the exterior outlet. In my case, it's because there is no room to mount the EMS between the outlet and WFCO unit.

The issue of stranded vs solid wire is an interesting one. I won't know for sure until I actually get into the installation, but it looks like nuCamp used standard Romex 10 ga (solid 2-wire w/gnd) for the wire run from the 30 amp outside connection to the WFCO. The runs are also unsupported.