A Small "Avia"

Om3

Has anyone heard that Nucamp will be coming out with a smaller version of the Avia? We currently have a 2018 T@B 400...love it...but we have found it too small for our comfort and travels. The Avia is beautiful ... but, in order to have one we would need a new truck! We have a Chevy Colorado Z71...won't tow the Avia. Heard through the grapevine that NuCamp will be putting out a small model similar to the Avia. 

jgram2

Could it be the Barefoot?

Denny16

Yes the Barefoot is the only new trailer design in he works at the present time, that I am aware of.  This does not preclude a new nuCamp design might not be on the drawing board?

Cheers

Verna

The Barefoot will be out later this summer as a 15’-er. It will be roughly the same length as the T@B 320. Fewer bells and whistles, but just as luxurious in its own way.

Om3

No...not the Barefoot...this would the "child" of the Avia...smaller...but bigger then a T@B400.

jameskuzman

You're not alone in wanting something roomier than a 400 but shorter than an AVIA...

VictoriaP

Om3 said:

No...not the Barefoot...this would the "child" of the Avia...smaller...but bigger then a T@B400.

Customers have had numerous discussions on such a trailer. I presume nuCamp has seen those, but nothing from them has been posted to any public forum that I’ve seen. They were pretty public about the Avia for months before release, and the Barefoot for over a year now, I think we would have heard something about any mid size model already if it was coming anytime soon.

Realistically, with the Barefoot going into production this year and the economy getting sketchier by the minute, it’s probably not the best time for them to expand their lineup any further. 

Denny16

I don’t know about a slip down in the market, as RVs and Bicycles are flying “off the shelf” here in California, no one has much in stock, especially here in northern Calif.
cheers

1968Healey

Yeah, seems like RV’s are selling like hot cakes.  

My wife and I really like the size of our T@B 400.  We live in Seattle proper and can actually park it on our property (pretty amazing IMO).   It also fits into all of the odd-ball campground spots here in WA and OR (atleast all the ones we’ve been to and some can be tight).  However, we have our first kid on the way and there are rainy camping days when the T@B is already a bit tight.  I could see a day in 5+ years where we decide we need something bigger.

I’ve watched the Avia videos and I’ve looked at the specs.  Mainly because I find it interesting, not because I’m looking to buy. However at 28 feet long, it’s just too much RV for what we’d want.

Looking at the AirStream lineup (who must be a prime competitor to nuCamp), the 23 and 25 foot airstreams seem like the sweet spot.  You get a full bed that both people can roll out of, without bothering the other.  You get a full separate shower.  You get a full table that converts or quasi converts to a couch.  We’ve also found that 23 feet is probably the max for many state and national sites we end up in.  

Seems like that’s the next size that nuCamp should target.  

Denny16

Yes, a 22 to 23-foot big Tab 500 or small Avia would be the sweet spot for small families.  Meanwhile, your TaB 400 should work for a family of three for at least 5-6 years down the road.  I sometimes sleep on the front (dinette) bunk in our TaB 400, it’s quite comfy.

Cheers

Homebodyatheart

@1968Healey I don’t think Airstreams are a threat anymore as they are now owned and made by Thor, and numerous issues with new trailers are being reported. You’re now buying the name, not the old quality. 

TNOutback

Yesterday, I stepped into a friend’s Avia for the first time.  I must say I was thoroughly impressed; it is a fantastic trailer.  I really like the fact they have not gone the full 8 foot width like many travel trailers, yet made it feel very roomy inside.  Having said that, the 28 foot length is a lot to account for, and would rule me out of several campgrounds we really enjoy visiting.  If NuCamp could leave the walk-around bed area as is, and design out about 4 foot of overall length from the front, that would make a very nicely sized travel trailer, and would be an easy choice versus a Lance.

Denny16

The Avia has six feet of trailer in front of the 22-foot coach. So take a foot from front, reduce the front locker size some, eliminate the tall slide out pantry and equal length on pax side, and with a smaller dinette you could reduce the length by 4-feet.  The bed area could be shortened by eliminating the folding power bed, and have a couch pull out bunk or just a fixed bunk, this would shave about 1-foot off.
  Even a two foot reduction would be nice.  I like the idea of something between the larger Avia and the TaB400, either a TaB400 XL or a 4-foot shorter Avia.

A TaB400 XL count be 1.5-2 feet longer, with an option of twin beds “fore and aft” in place of the a queen bed, with double axles would be grand also.  A similar TaB400 was previously made in Germany, or at least tried out.
cheers

RobynandMarty

We love our 400, but fantasize about having a walk-around bed! A Facebook post in the Avia group reads "Back in Feb. I saw this: nuCamp RV It's too early to say at this point, but we will be focusing on "filling the gap" between our 400 and the current AVIA.
nuCamp's reply on the post was "We'll be sure to keep you updated as we go along!"
This gives me hope!!
I love seeing the suggestions being made here (and hopefully nuCamp is listening!)

Denny16

Homebodyatheart said:

@1968Healey I don’t think Airstreams are a threat anymore as they are now owned and made by Thor, and numerous issues with new trailers are being reported. You’re now buying the name, not the old quality. 

@Homebodyatheart, do you know that Thor has owned Airstream since 1980!
“ On August 29, 1980, Thompson and Orthwein acquired Airstream and simultaneously formed a new company, THOR Industries, ...”

since then Thor Industries as grown to become one of the largest RV and Bus companies in the world, with its recent acquisition of Erwin Hymer Group (EHG), one of Europe's largest makers of recreational vehicles (RVs). 

“The acquisition is consistent with Thor's long-term strategic growth plan, and the combination of Thor and EHG creates the world's largest RV manufacturer, with leading positions in both North America and Europe.”

They also own several companies that specialize in producing the bits used in the RV industry.  They also have owned Dutchmen since 1991, which acquired the rights to build the TaB in 2001. 

So one could say Thor/Dutchmen started making the TaB here in the US, and made it possible for PVT and nüCamp to continue this tradition of small travel trailers.

cheers

Homebodyatheart

@Denny16 thank you for this clarification and history! It does make me wonder why the last couple of model years have seemed more problematic per owner reports. Oh well, I’m glad I’m a PVT Tab gal! Thanks again.

jkjenn

Homebodyatheart said:

@1968Healey I don’t think Airstreams are a threat anymore as they are now owned and made by Thor, and numerous issues with new trailers are being reported. You’re now buying the name, not the old quality. 

Airstream is in a class all by itself and unless someone else starts building all aluminum trailers, they won't have much direct competition.

As far as the quality, I see this type of criticism, often. Personally 8ndint buy it. They are made in the same plant they have always been made in and they still take a full day to build the door. I don't think the quality has changed. I think that consumers often expect RVs to be flawless out of the factory, which isn't realistic, even with the introduction of robotics. Building n RV is more like building a house than building a car, and there will be issues.

I know folks with Airstream. They haven't had issues. I have been inside of them and they are still very well built trailers.

Denny16

Yes, Airstream is still the standard high bench mark for the RV industry.  There are several small outback style camping trailers made from aluminum, the Taxa Tigermoth and Cricket are in this category, but at the other end of the market, appealing to someone who wants a lightweight trailer option to a tent, or the flimsy pop up tent trailers.  They cost as much as a Tab too, not exactly inexpensive.

So you have full on glamping with a Airstream, or entry level glamping with a TaB, nipping on Airstream’s heels.  We get some of the same high end features, aluminum construction, Alde systems, and a high end looking finished interior.  The Avia is right up there with an Airstream quality and luxury.
cheers

maxwellllll

Just wanted to chime in and note that I just joined the forum expressly to note how much I would love a "Tab 500" or "Small Avia" or "Tab 400 XL."  We are looking for a trailer that is well-built, smartly designed, clean and modern on the interior, can get into most National Parks, can sleep 2 adults and one child comfortably, but could stretch to sleep 2 adults and 2 children comfortably (for when the best friend comes along), can be comfortably towed behind a mid-size truck or smaller, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. The Tab 500 and Avia each tick off the majority of those boxes, but each of them leaves at least one of those boxes un-ticked.  The Tab 400 is a few feet too small, and the Avia is a few feet too large (heavy). 

I have yet to discover any other trailer that comes as close as these two NuCamp products do to ticking off all of those boxes.  We love the design of the higher end (Int'l & Globetrotter) Airstreams, but they don't make shorty versions of those (and even if they did, they'd cost double what these do). Safari Condo makes a couple that might tick all the boxes, but they have no distribution in the U.S. (and I am not the type to order this large of a purchase sight unseen).  The InTech Sol Horizon seems like it may come the closest to pushing all of the buttons, but I still feel like the NuCamp trailers are a bit better in their overall design philosophy and attention to detail (and the Sol Horizon would probably still be pushing it when it comes to actually being comfortable for more than a day or two with four aboard).  

Anyway, as I said, was just looking to add two cents, as I've noticed that there are a few threads on here with similar yearnings, and I'm hoping that NuCamp takes note. 

dragonsdofly

@maxwellllll, all opinions, ideas and fantasies are welcome. All perspectives and points of view, too.

Denny16

The InTech Sol Horizon is interesting, overall is is smaller than a TaB400, at 7x16-feet (TaB is 7.5x18- feet), but it gains its larger front dinette by eliminating storage (TaB wardrobe locker) and galley counter space (non existent, the HSol is all stove and sink).  So the only thing the Sol Horizon has going for it is the larger dinette area, that will sleep two, vs the TaB that sleeps one.  One of my biggest issues, is the all fiberglass body and manu interior fiberglass panels, including the head, all,of which take a very long time to out gas and totally cure.  The warmer the fiberglass roof gets, the more it will out gas, inside and out.

The Tab 400 is 18-feet and has:
  Larger galley counter area, and more galley storage
  Alde combined heating/Hot water (Sol is forced air furnace, not a high end unit either)
  Larger shower toilet area (includes fold down sink).
  Wardrobe Locker storage area.
  More floor space.

  Interior cabinet work is all wood, no fiberglass panels inside the trailer.

Both are capable campers, but I think I prefer the TaB400 features.  

You could make a 20-foot TaB400 XL, and use the space to:
  Make the dinette bigger to accommodate 4-seating and two sleeping.  

  Eliminate the Black tank, and add the Cassette toilet used in the EU Tab 400.  

  Use the additional floor space to increase water and gray tank capacity.  

  Seal the under side to allow heating the tanks, similar to what Airstream did on the Base Camp.
cheers

maxwellllll

Denny16 said:

The Tab 400 is 18-feet and has:

  Larger galley counter area, and more galley storage
  Alde combined heating/Hot water (Sol is forced air furnace, not a high end unit either)
  Larger shower toilet area (includes fold down sink).
  Wardrobe Locker storage area.
  More floor space.

  Interior cabinet work is all wood, no fiberglass panels inside the trailer.

Both are capable campers, but I think I prefer the TaB400 features.  

You could make a 20-foot TaB400 XL, and use the space to:
  Make the dinette bigger to accommodate 4-seating and two sleeping.  

  Eliminate the Black tank, and add the Cassette toilet used in the EU Tab 400.  

  Use the additional floor space to increase water and gray tank capacity.  

  Seal the under side to allow heating the tanks, similar to what Airstream did on the Base Camp.
cheers

Really really good thoughts there, Denny.  Thank you!  Your side-by-side (T400 vs. Horizon) is far more thorough than my own mental side-by-sides that I'd done via looking at specs and watching YouTube videos.  Your notes alone have made me start to think that maybe we should be giving the 400 more serious consideration for our family.  The smaller dinette (and hence: secondary sleeping area) is the only serious drawback (for us) that I can see.  (Side note: I do really love the huge sink and faucet combo in the Horizon, and the "pre-fab" outdoor kitchen and fridge add-ons for the Horizon--while they'd gobble up a ton of storage space--seem like they'd be awfully nice for how I like to camp).  

I'm going to hunt around this forum some more and see if anyone has any experience attempting to sleep 4 people (2 of them half-size) in a T400.  I'm also thinking that it wouldn't be impractical to think we could always set up a tent for kid sleeping on the occasions when we have an extra kid (the thing that brings our total "family" size to 4). 

Anyway, again, Denny--thank you for your input.  Very helpful.   

Denny16

@maxwellllll you might be able to rig a removable upper bunk bed over the dinette that would hold a child.  Taxa uses a pipe berth arrangement for child bunks on their Cricket trailer.  Two small children would fit head to foot on the dinette berth also.  Someone here posted they did this for their grandkids when they were little, and used the side tent when they got older.  
cheers

AaronC

Escape trailers are awesome. I've seen both the 17' and 19' models. (escapetrailer.com) Fiberglass campers in general hold up extremely well, both in terms of durability and value. We've owned two Casitas and a Scamp before going the TAB route. And when we're ready for a larger camper, I think we'll go back to fiberglass. They are strong, light, don't leak and can't come apart at the seams. When nuCamp brings out the Barefoot, I'll bet they'll sell like hotcakes. Other drool-worthy campers are the ones made by Alto in Quebec. Very interesting range of quality products. We saw a Safari Condo model on our last trip to Door County, and it was gorgeous. Meanwhile, loving our comfortable little TAB for its tiny footprint and big features. 

Denny16

Other good build is the Oliver travel trailer, looks nice, and is fiberglass.
Here is an interesting floor layout for a TaB500 or small Avia:

Dinette and twin bunks, with a cassette toilet.  This is from a U.K. trailer, so door is on the wrong side.  The door and closet swap,with the galley module to get the door on our Pax side.  
cheers

TABaker

Most Airstream enthusiasts agree quality has gone down.  The reason wasn't the takeover by Thor, but the cause was the ramp up in production numbers.  For model year 2013/17 production went from 26 units per week to 41.  Later in 2014 they were producing 51 trailers per week.  That's when a lot of quality control issues began.  All trailers will have issues, but I'd be a much happier camper if I've spent less than thirty grand and have to make trips back to the dealer for warranty and post-warranty work as I would if I spent a hundred grand.  That kind of money demands attention to detail and great quality materials, and it's just no longer there.  If I were to by an AS, I'd look for something prior to 2014 if possible.  Their Nest has been a joke, and the FB page is full of horror stories.  It's a shame, because before they acquired the rights that molded fiberglass it was a sweet little trailer.

Denny16

Airstream went from a company loosing money to one making a profit under THOR.  August 29, 1980, Thompson and Orthwein acquired Airstream and simultaneously formed a new company, THOR Industries, Inc., so Thor has owned Airstream for more than forty years, and it’s ownership has not had a negative impact on Airstream quality as such.  It has restored Airstream to its former glory if anything.  That said, THOR has changed some models, added others like the BaseCamp, and the Nest is no longer manufactured by Airstream/Thor, having been dropped last year.

Airstream did build a new larger factory, and closed its old manufacturing plant, to handle the increase in its businesses, which may have added to its quality control issues.  But, like nüCamp, the recent manufacturing issues may have more to do with the global issues being currently experienced since the Covid Pandemic outbreak during the last two years, and the increased demand for RVs.
cheers

GatorEgg

  T@b will never be “Airstream” until the up their contruction materials.  Wood, plastic and screws will never out quality the same construction quality level with aluminum, stainless and rivets.  Manufacturers, Oliver and Escape put all rv manufactures to shame with different materials.

  Thor has owned Airstream since early 80s.  The quality gripes are across the whole manufacturing sector.  Just look at all the gripes we see here and the FB page.

manyman297

I think the problem is the lack of craftsmanship...it's the labor force and the employers not paying well..some combination of the two. Airstream uses great materials. They just aren't put together well...as is the case with most manufacturers. This is the problem I'm seeing with our 400. Overall the materials seem good. It's just that things literally aren't screwed together well. 

Denny16

You can use great materials, but if the parts are not assembled correctly, with good craftsmanship, then your final product will not be as good as one assembled with care and skilled workers.  Currently, good skilled labor is in short supply, due in part to the Pandemic, and nüCamp has taken steps to provide the required training with their new community outreach training program in their new facility.  But this effort will take some time to see a difference on the assembled units being produced.  

Also a product like an RV, which is a collection of many parts and bits made by different manufacturers (other than nüCamp, like Alde, Dometic, and Thetford, etc), which then has to be assembled, is a challenge it its own right.  Things are going to go wrong, QC is not 100%, and defective bits slip by.  

In the end, a business like the RV industry is a partnership between the component suppliers, RV manufacturers and dealers, all doing their bit, to get a good, problem free unit to the consumer.  Issues that slip past the component maker, aD/or RV manufacturer, needs to be spotted, and sorted by the dealer (working with the manufacturer as required) before the unit is delivered.  

A good dealer will go through a unit, make sure it’s systems are working, wheels torqued, Alde system filled correctly and working, etc. as part of the dealer prep for the unit.  This is the service that is supposed to be covered by the dealer’s markup.  But lately, it seems greedy dealers are skipping their part with poor if any prep at all, as evidenced by all the issues on 2021 units reported here, like solar panels not wired up or wired incorrectly (should have been spotted by the dealer).  

I am fortunate, in that our local nüCamp dealer takes the time and effort to properly inspect and prep all the RVs they sell, even if it creates a delivery backlog (which it did at the height of the 2021 season).  Customers had to wait an extra few days to a week to get their RV, but the added wait resulted in the delivery of an RV that was truly ready to use, with no surprises.

No one is perfect, same with manufacturers, but a good product today is going to be the result of a partnership between the various component makes, RV manufacturers and dealers selling the final product to insure a good useable product to the customer.  So nüCamp seems to be working on this with its new dealership training initiatives, in addition to its factory training program, which puts nüCamp back in the lead in this industry to my thinking. 🧐  (End of editorial rant)

cheers

SubaruLou

TABaker said:

Their Nest has been a joke, and the FB page is full of horror stories.  It's a shame, because before they acquired the rights that molded fiberglass it was a sweet little trailer.

YES! When I first started looking at small, hard-sided trailers, I fell in love with the Nest. It seemed like the perfect little trailer. Then I joined the AS community and it was one complaint after another about cracked fiberglass, leaks, etc. I am so glad I decided to go with a T@b 320. Half the price and have yet to have any issues!