Need a new Battery — Any Recommendations

kdawg

Hi! We are getting our battery tested in our 320CS-S teardrop (2018). It is the standard battery that came with the trailer. Does anyone have recommendations for batteries if we do need a new one?

• We camp full hook-ups and also some dry camping (Harvest Hosts, etc. )
• We would like to eventually, at some point in the future, also invest in some solar panels that power a battery in the teardrop. 

Any advice or suggestions is greatly appreciated! 
Thank you!
Kerrie

pthomas745

Right now you have a Group 24, 80 amp hour (or so) battery.  Any deep cycle replacement with those specs will drop right into your existing battery box.  If you are happy with how much you are getting from your battery on your short stays not on shore power, no need to change it.  Just drop another in.  A solar panel update will work just fine, too.

The next step up would be to a Group 27 AGM battery.  This would give you more amps, but you would need a bigger battery box ( in most cases).  An upgrade to 100 amp hours, a decent upgrade.  My next battery will be one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Power-Group-SLA0079-SLA0090/dp/B00DDZED3E/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=Universal+Power+Group&qid=1595958518&sr=8-7

Beyond these simple upgrades you get into multiple six volt batteries that would require mods to the front tub in some cases.  Or Lithium types that require a home equity loan.

DougH

@pthomas745 : From what I've seen on YouTube, Lithium batteries are free.  Only prerequisites seem to be 500,000 subscribers for your channel and a sponsor for the BB acquisition.  

kdawg

Thanks for all the suggestions! @pthomas745 — I got the 27 AmG....and a new battery box. The box bottom fits swimmingly, but I can't get the top of the battery box to fit in the existing tongue box. I think if I remove the small PVC pipe that is in there (and really serving no purpose, I the box with the top will fit. It looks like maybe it takes a small allen wrench. Any ideas?!

pthomas745

I think that round tube was supposed to be a sewer hose holder or something like that.

Look at the screws closely, and they might be the square head screws.  You will need the square head "Robertson" bits or screwdrivers to take them out.  Most of the little kits of drill bits should have a few of them.  (Most of my trailer are Robertson #2 screws).

kdawg

  

elbereth

@kdawg I think our pipe was held on by some type of rivet.  We just drilled them out and it all came right out.  I was going to fashion something for the 2 holes but they’re less noticeable than any fix I could have come up with!

ScottG

Yes, that pipe was intended to hold a short sewer hose. I actually used mine for the first few seasons,  but did have to relocate it when I fitted a group 27 battery box. It was originally riveted to the tub.

I eventually removed it entirely, but haven't lost any sleep over the four small holes still in the tub.  :-)

pthomas745

I keep reading that AGM batteries can be installed on their sides or standing "longways".  Just not upside down.  Has anyone here ever considered installing a battery in a "different" configuration?  I know an AGM will work.  Would a lithium?

kdawg

a different configuration would work, too if it was okay to stand the battery longways. Our rivets are very small, which is why I was thinking a small alen wrench, but I could also try to drill them out. Seems like such a silly thing to make so difficult to remove!

Denny16

Whilst you can mount the battery on its end, doing so will increase the lbs per square inch floor load, so it is best to keep the bigger bottom down to spread out the weight of the battery.
cheers

ScottG

kdawg said:

a different configuration would work, too if it was okay to stand the battery longways. Our rivets are very small, which is why I was thinking a small alen wrench, but I could also try to drill them out. Seems like such a silly thing to make so difficult to remove!

It's not really that difficult to drill out a rivet. If you get the bit size just right the head will pop off and then the rivet can just be poked out the other side.

kdawg

it's really super small...so I hope I have the right drill bit!

ScottG

@kdawg, a 3/16" drill bit fits comfortably in the holes vacated by my original rivets.

kdawg

i have that! just checked. thank you. 

kdawg

New battery is in and working. However I’m trying to charge it from my tow vehicle and the percentage inside on the monitor keeps decreasing. I’m at a loss

pthomas745

What is running inside the trailer? 

elbereth

Is your battery switch turned to “on”?

Otherwise, what @pthomas745 said.  If your fridge is on, especially, your tow vehicle may not be able to keep up.  Often best to fully charge while you can plug in somewhere, and then count on the tow vehicle to just hopefully keep the battery from dropping too much while you’re on the road.

kdawg

ok!! we were able to find a spot to plug in to shore power. It's been charging there for about 3 hours. The inside indicator is saying it is at 13.6 right now. I believe the battery, although it was new, was in a deficit. Is there a particular amount of time we should leave it connected to shore power so we know it's fully charged. Also, nothing was running inside previously. Thanks for everyone's help! I'm excited about this upgrade and want to be sure we're doing everything right!

kdawg

And yes, the battery was turned to "on"

pthomas745

A battery, when plugged in to a charger, as in this case, will always read those types of numbers while it is plugged in.  The little battery monitor will always be a bit misleading when the trailer has shore power.  As far as time to charge goes, it is basic math:  how many amps does the battery need, and how many amps does the charger supply?  You simply cannot dump power into any sort of battery quickly.  Batteries charge at a "bulk" rate to a certain point, then will slowly taper off until the battery reaches something close to capacity. 

If you want to take  your battery knowledge one step further, buy an inexpensive auto ranging multimeter, and learn how to make "rested" battery readings directly from the battery.

Here is a battery FAQ with this info in a nicer format. 

https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html/

Sharon_is_SAM

@kdawg - as pthomas745 stated - when on shore power with the battery switch turned on, the KIB monitor will always read 13.6. That shows the volts supplied to the TaB via the converter.  I would let it charge a good 24 hours on shorepower, then turn off the battery switch and turn off everything else in the TaB and unplug.  Let the battery rest at least an hour, then use a multimeter or even a plug in voltmeter to check the state of charge.  You will need these tools anyway, so you may as well get them now.  Alternatively, after you charge, if you remain unplugged, leave everything turned off in the TaB, turn the battery switch on and immediately check the KIB monitor.  It will be under a small load with the converter and AV LEDs, but you will be in the ballpark.  You need one of these, too.

kdawg

thanks everyone! this is so helpful.  

kdawg

also, b/c our battery died 2 weeks ago, the valve that runs to the kitchen shut off the propane in our particular model (we didn' know this). we went to a Uhaul to get the propane checked and at that time, he said it was 99% filled (the person we bought it from also said he topped it off before selling to us). we didn't realize that the battery also controlled the propane distribution. 

However, we have read that you should keep your propane at 80%. Are we at risk here for a fire or something as the battery is charging?  

pthomas745

What appliance are you trying to use?  The propane regulator has a mechanical safety mechanism that trips if you try to open the gas lines too quickly.  The Alde and the propane fridge require some electricity to use.  My 2017 propane tank and regulator have no association with an electric wire.

kdawg

Propane is all good. However, we charged our new 27 AGM battery to shore power for about 36 hours. We drove to our destination - about 3 hours- plugged in and battery on. When we got to the destination nothing was running inside and we turned the battery off. We turned it on to cook - ran propane and nothing else running inside for no longer than 20 mins.no devices plugged in, no radio - no pump nothing.  Checked the battery and in that 20 minutes it fell from 12.9 to 11.8 and registered at medium on our indicator ( Stanley battery reader). 

I realize you can’t run all things in the RV but this is a brand new battery and upgrade, but doesn’t seem to be giving us a lot of power to work with. 20 minutes of only propane usage doesn’t seem like something that should discharge the battery so much!! What am I missing?

thanks for all the help!!

Sharon_is_SAM

@kdawg -
1.  After you charged your battery for 36 hours, what was the voltage?  

2.  Did you run your frig while towing?  What was your voltage on arrival?  

3.  If you are plugged in, it is a good idea to keep your battery on so it recharges.
4.  When you turned the battery back on while cooking (which was not necessary as you were on shorepower), what was the voltage?
5.  Your use of propane does not impact your battery. 

6.  Not familiar with the Stanley battery monitor, but unless it reads voltage, it will not serve you well.
7.  I know you think that nothing was turned on, but what you don’t realize is that there are phantom loads on the battery.  The CO/LPG detector, the television and Jensen LEDs, the battery monitor, etc all act to place a load on your battery.  So, when you check a voltage reading (off shorepower- battery on) all of these power draws will lower the voltage.  

Lastly, are you towing with the battery “On”?

Hang in there - electric and solar are big learning curves.

kdawg

The battery was 13.6 after charging and was 12.5 when we arrived to our destination. The battery was turned on. We did have the fridge on low unknowingly. 

We are NOT connected to shore power here. So only turning on the battery to run the water pump etc for 2 min increments. 

And our model has a valve that runs back to the kitchen that connects to the propane. So, if we don’t have battery (or shore) powers, the propane will not work. We learned that the hard way!! It was something built in on certain nucamp models is what the nucamp folks told us. 

Luckily we have a friend with us with a generator and it’s very cool so we don’t need the fan and can plug into her generator. 

Thanks!!!

kdawg

Also, I realize that this isn’t going to last us all day or all night but more than five minutes would be nice 🤪. Lots to learn!!

Sharon_is_SAM

@kdawg  - I suspect the 13.6 was still on shorepower, but the 12.5 on arrival is very reasonable - especially if you were running your frig in route.  

I think you should close your hatch and turn the battery on and keep appliances off and see how it goes.

Can you take a picture of the galley hatch struts? You may have a solenoid switch built into the strut.  This is something unique to the TaBs, but common to TaG teardrops.

Marceline

kdawg said:

The battery was 13.6 after charging and was 12.5 when we arrived to our destination. The battery was turned on. We did have the fridge on low unknowingly. 

We are NOT connected to shore power here. So only turning on the battery to run the water pump etc for 2 min increments. 

And our model has a valve that runs back to the kitchen that connects to the propane. So, if we don’t have battery (or shore) powers, the propane will not work. We learned that the hard way!! It was something built in on certain nucamp models is what the nucamp folks told us. 

Luckily we have a friend with us with a generator and it’s very cool so we don’t need the fan and can plug into her generator. 

Thanks!!!

The 13.6v was probably a false reading taken either while still connected to shore power or too soon after disconnecting from shore power. As someone else mentioned, to get an accurate-ish reading you need to disconnect, turn off all appliances, and wait for at least half an hour. 

The 2way fridge consumes about 3-4 amps while running. If you start with an ambient temperature fridge it will run almost continuously for awhile (an hour or two?) to chill the fridge. Even if you had the fridge on the lowest setting, if the interior of the fridge started at 80-90 degrees it probably consumed quite a bit of power while you were driving. It's best to chill the fridge while on shore power. When I can't do that I've put a piece of dry ice or a stack of ice packs in the fridge to bring it down to 40deg. 

What is the AH (amp hour) capacity of your new battery? Are you 100% sure that your tow vehicle has been wired to send power to the 7way connection? 

I don't know what exact propane solenoid valve NuCamp is using in the T@Bs but I did some Googling and it looks like the consumption can range from 0.2 to 2.0ah depending on the switch. So it could be a concern but I don't see how the solenoid valve could explain a drop from 12.9 to 11.8 in 20minutes for a Group 27 battery. I think that you'll need to contact NuCamp for info on the valve that they're using. I think that someone with an older (Dutchman built) T@B came up with a way to manually depress the valve into the "off" position when they have the clamshell open but they're not using propane so that it's not drawing current. But like I said, I don't think that this is the real source of your problems.