Towing a T@B 400 with 5000lb tow/500lb tongue TV

rhyno

I see a lot of posts scattered through the other threads where 400 owners say they are towing with 4Runners, Ridgelines and other TVs with 5000lb towing/500lb tongue limits and saying they're doing just fine. Are any of you with similar setups taking your T@B 400 through Colorado or other mountainous states or are you really more limited on where you can take your T@B?

Denny16

It is not a issue of weather a 4Runner or Ridgeline can tow a TaB400, it is on how well they can tow it.  The heavier a TV, and the greater the towing capability, the better it will tow the TaB.  If you already have the TV you want to use, try renting a TaB400 for a weekend and take it up and down your local hills/mountains and see how you think it performs.
cheere

rhyno

Denny16 said:

It is not a issue of weather a 4Runner or Ridgeline can tow a TaB400, it is on how well they can tow it.  The heavier a TV, and the greater the towing capability, the better it will tow the TaB.  If you already have the TV you want to use, try renting a TaB400 for a weekend and take it up and down your local hills/mountains and see how you think it performs.
cheere

We live in Eastern KS and do not have access to a 400 rental so we are hoping for some feedback from other owners with similar setups. We're not opposed to driving a ways to check one out once we're serious about buying....but if we'd be insane for taking it beyond flatlands we'd like to know that up front to save us a trip.

Sharon_is_SAM

@rhyno - keep in mind the base tongue weights on the 400 have varied since the 2018 model.  The 2019 model had a tongue weight over 500#.  The 2020 model shifted some weight to the rear by removing the Cool Cat from in front of the axle and placing the Air8 in the rear.  The 2021 tongue weight has changed again as the axle was shifted forward.  So, know the real tongue weight if you shop for a vehicle.

Deb55

We have a 2018 T@B 400. When we first got it we towed with a Toyota Highlander, that had the 5000/500 towing capacity. When we towed through the Smoky Mountains, it struggled some, even though we had weight distribution and anti-sway. So, based on that, we traded for a Ford F150 that has somewhere around 7000/700 (I'm not exactly sure) and it's way better than the Highlander--plus more room. 

atlasb

If you are in Eastern KS, might check out Missouri Tear drops in Centerview Mo.  Dana does rent, not sure if he has a 400 he rents.  A very reputable dealer for service and sales.  Got our 400 from him and also order parts through him.  we live in NE okla, 300 miles from him and he is great to work with.

VictoriaP

I mean, a lot depends on the exact vehicle involved, and a lot on personal preference. Two examples:

- I have yet to see anyone with a Highlander happily towing a 400. As with Deb’s post above, they seem to upgrade vehicles pretty quickly. Yet it falls in that 5000 lb limit, and we have several Subaru Ascent/400 combos that seem happy—those rigs are all but interchangeable on paper, so why is one doing better than the other?

- The Toyota Tacoma is fairly popular with 400 owners; I know one of our full time 400 owners is running around Colorado right now with that combo, and isn’t shying away from the passes. But I know another 400 owner who traded out the Tacoma for an F150, because they weren’t comfortable with performance in the mountains.

Honestly, the best thing to do is search the forum for mentions of your specific vehicle, or post a thread asking for experiences towing a 400 with that vehicle. There’s just too much variance in performance between brands and models to be able to say yes, you’ll be happy.

rhyno

VictoriaP said:

I mean, a lot depends on the exact vehicle involved, and a lot on personal preference. Two examples:

- I have yet to see anyone with a Highlander happily towing a 400. As with Deb’s post above, they seem to upgrade vehicles pretty quickly. Yet it falls in that 5000 lb limit, and we have several Subaru Ascent/400 combos that seem happy—those rigs are all but interchangeable on paper, so why is one doing better than the other?

- The Toyota Tacoma is fairly popular with 400 owners; I know one of our full time 400 owners is running around Colorado right now with that combo, and isn’t shying away from the passes. But I know another 400 owner who traded out the Tacoma for an F150, because they weren’t comfortable with performance in the mountains.

Honestly, the best thing to do is search the forum for mentions of your specific vehicle, or post a thread asking for experiences towing a 400 with that vehicle. There’s just too much variance in performance between brands and models to be able to say yes, you’ll be happy.

Thank you for the feedback. I'm sure this is a "YMMV" topic even if the tow/tongue specs are the same. We will be towing with a 2020 Infiniti QX60 and may be doing a trip beyond the KS/MO area every other year, definitely not hauling up into the hills for our regular weekend trips. We cannot seem to find much online anecdotally for our particular vehicle beyond folks towing boats and such.

rhyno

atlasb said:

If you are in Eastern KS, might check out Missouri Tear drops in Centerview Mo.  Dana does rent, not sure if he has a 400 he rents.  A very reputable dealer for service and sales.  Got our 400 from him and also order parts through him.  we live in NE okla, 300 miles from him and he is great to work with.

We are going to MO Tear Drops tomorrow to take a look. We've met Dana and he has been helpful so far. He has a 320 unit and a couple t@bs for rent. Trouble is Mrs Rhyno wants a bathroom w/ shower so we can avoid the public bathrooms so t@b is out and we're both over 6' tall which nixes the 320.

rhyno

rhyno said:

atlasb said:

If you are in Eastern KS, might check out Missouri Tear drops in Centerview Mo.  Dana does rent, not sure if he has a 400 he rents.  A very reputable dealer for service and sales.  Got our 400 from him and also order parts through him.  we live in NE okla, 300 miles from him and he is great to work with.

We are going to MO Tear Drops tomorrow to take a look. We've met Dana and he has been helpful so far. He has a 320 unit and a couple t@bs for rent. Trouble is Mrs Rhyno wants a bathroom w/ shower so we can avoid the public bathrooms so t@b is out and we're both over 6' tall which nixes the 320.

edit....make that "t@gs" for rent.

VictoriaP

rhyno said:

VictoriaP said:

I mean, a lot depends on the exact vehicle involved, and a lot on personal preference. Two examples:

- I have yet to see anyone with a Highlander happily towing a 400. As with Deb’s post above, they seem to upgrade vehicles pretty quickly. Yet it falls in that 5000 lb limit, and we have several Subaru Ascent/400 combos that seem happy—those rigs are all but interchangeable on paper, so why is one doing better than the other?

- The Toyota Tacoma is fairly popular with 400 owners; I know one of our full time 400 owners is running around Colorado right now with that combo, and isn’t shying away from the passes. But I know another 400 owner who traded out the Tacoma for an F150, because they weren’t comfortable with performance in the mountains.

Honestly, the best thing to do is search the forum for mentions of your specific vehicle, or post a thread asking for experiences towing a 400 with that vehicle. There’s just too much variance in performance between brands and models to be able to say yes, you’ll be happy.

Thank you for the feedback. I'm sure this is a "YMMV" topic even if the tow/tongue specs are the same. We will be towing with a 2020 Infiniti QX60 and may be doing a trip beyond the KS/MO area every other year, definitely not hauling up into the hills for our regular weekend trips. We cannot seem to find much online anecdotally for our particular vehicle beyond folks towing boats and such.

A *really* fast glance at Google makes me think the QX60 might be problematic. It’s certainly not popular as a tow vehicle overall given how little is posted both here and elsewhere, and there’s little on the QX60 forum to indicate people are towing campers. There’s also basically nothing posted to either of the largest Tab Facebook groups. Weird.

I support Mrs. Rhyno’s need for a bathroom. I refuse to camp without one myself. 😁 As I said in your other thread, we do have tall folks who love their 320 models, so it’s certainly worth looking at. At worst, you’ll be able to eliminate it from your shopping list, and then you can take a look at the 400 when Missouri Teardrops gets their next one in...meanwhile, you can do more research on the SUV.

rhyno

Much appreciated VictoriaP. We'll be looking at the 320 tomorrow as well. We love that one for the size so if we can make the bed workable then we may be in business.

Denny16

No comment

cheers

rhyno

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Our 2020 QX60 is an AWD with a CVT. I think we'll be fine with the 320 S weight-wise. We'll see if we can fit inside it comfortably and if not we'll keep hunting.

Denny16

Deleted by me
cheers

ChrisFix

@rhyno
The CVT transmission isn't an ideal towing setup, but the T@B 320 frontal area and weight make it a pretty easy trailer to tow.
I think the T@B 400 would be difficult to tow comfortably with the QX60, particularly in any mountainous terrain.

RCB

I tow my 400 with a Subaru Ascent (5000/500). It has 30,000 km on the OD of which about 9,500 km have been towing the 400. It does what it is supposed to do !  Grades of 7% are not an issue. Just drive like a trucker - let the rig slow down a bit when going up hills.  I drive in cruise control in flat areas and often manual in hilly terrain. It is leased vehicle. Mileage varies from 12 to 16 mpg.

rh5555

There are 2 aspects to deciding if your TV is appropriate:  The tow weight (5000 lbs) and the tongue weight (500 lbs).  Given the maximum loaded weight on a TAB400 axle cannot exceed 3900 lbs and the empty TAB comes in under 3000 lbs, a 5000 lb tow-weight vehicle is more than adequate.  Until recently the tongue weight has been more of an issue as it was getting right up to 500lbs.  However in the 2021 models the trailer axle has been moved forward to get the tongue weight under control and it is now about 330 lbs (before adding propane, gear, etc).  So a 5000/500 tow vehicle is fine - on paper.

Now to your question about tackling the Rockies:  Going up steep, long grades is all about horsepower (and gearing) and these do not correlate to the manufacturer's towing specifications.  As an example, you can get a Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk with 700 HP motor, and it's rated at 7200lbs towing, whereas the V6 Tailhawk model with a 300 HP motor is rated at 6200 lbs towing. 

So how much horsepower do you need to cross the Rockies?  It depends on your driving style.  If you're happy hanging out with the trucks in the slow lane on the mountain passes, then you're like me and 270 HP will do it.  We recently crossed the the Tetons on hwy 22, which is long and steep, and we stayed above 40MPH all the way.  If you want to be able to zip up that same road at 65MPH, then you probably should be looking for a V8 engine and (I'd guess) about 350 HP.  Either way is fine, it's a personal preference, and how much you like buying gas.  270 HP will get you anywhere and everywhere, but you may be slow at times.  You won't be limited on where you can go, or what you can do.

Denny16

Since we are not going to get rid of gas engine vehicles any time soon, the next best thing we can do is slow down, drive vehicles with smaller engines, a 250-300 HP V6 is large enough for most of us, some larger trucks will need more, but not the average SUV or up to 1/2 ton truck.  

Next we need Slow Down, 60mph is fast,enough to get you where you need to go.  Also, drive less, consolidate your trips, use public transportation for commuting when possible, and reduce your gas consumption.  

Cheers

ChrisFix

rh5555 said:

So how much horsepower do you need to cross the Rockies?  It depends on your driving style.  If you're happy hanging out with the trucks in the slow lane on the mountain passes, then you're like me and 270 HP will do it.  We recently crossed the the Tetons on hwy 22, which is long and steep, and we stayed above 40MPH all the way.  If you want to be able to zip up that same road at 65MPH, then you probably should be looking for a V8 engine and (I'd guess) about 350 HP.  Either way is fine, it's a personal preference, and how much you like buying gas.  270 HP will get you anywhere and everywhere, but you may be slow at times.  You won't be limited on where you can go, or what you can do.

I think that is a great and accurate summary!
All modern era V6 vehicles with the towing specs to tow the 400 will get it done on any paved road you'll encounter.
Some will work harder to do it than others...but get it done all the same.

bergger

I live in Colorado and have towed a bunch in the mountains.  I owned nothing but Tacomas for over 20 years and towed a 2800lbs trailer, not a T@b, for years.  The Tacoma did fine but not exceptional going up and over the high passes.  If you get a 320 and have a Tacoma or 4Runner you will be just fine.  If you get a 400 you will be okay but plan on going slow up the hills.  I was looking to replace my Tacoma with a new one before we got our 2021 400 but then came across a gently used 2018 Nissan Titan.  After one test drive I fell in love with the truck and will never go back to a small truck for towing.  Gobs of power, larger brakes, more mass, towing mirrors, more comfort and storage room and gas mileage that is the same if not better than the Tacoma.   I feel much safer and more capable using the Titan over the Tacoma.  There are many vehicles that can tow the 400, some just better than others.  I'm a big fan of pickups over SUVs or crossovers when it comes to towing.  

rhyno

So we visited Missouri Teardrops this weekend and talked to Dana. He was really helpful. Unfortunately the 320 is going to be out of the question for us due to our height. He did not have any unsold 400s for us to do a test drive but we were able to check one out and we really like it.

We ran the numbers on the 400 and we'll be around 80% of GVCWR, GVWR and payload limits with our QX60. More power would be great of course, but we used to have a 34ft camper with a Tundra that had worse capacity numbers - we just packed light and followed the slow and steady mantra with that unit. Hearing what others are hauling their 400s has been a big help.

ChrisFix

@rhyno
If budget allows for a tow vehicle change after you've had a chance to try it out with your QX60, then there is really no harm in giving it a try. Even if not perfect, it may well be good enough, and you can decide later if you want to change it.