Trip report--2018 T@B 400 no hookups

Deb55

Whew--this is the 3rd time that I have attempted this post, and something has gone wrong! If it doesn't work this time, it wasn't meant to be. I thought I'd write up our experiences as relative newbies to camping in a trailer, in hopes that it would help other newbies who want to try boondocking or state parks with no hookups.

We have a 2018 T@B 400 with a newly installed 190 watt solar panel on the roof, a Victron battery monitor, and we've replaced the Fantastic Fan with the Maxxair Deluxe. Our water and waste tanks are the standard 30 gallon fresh, 18 gallon gray, and 12 gallon black. We don't have a generator or inverter. We camped for 4 nights in a state park with no hookups, but it did have a bathhouse. The days were partly sunny to overcast, and the temps were high 70s to low 80s during the day, and high 50s to low 60s during the night. 

Electrical--we started with a full charge in our two 6 volt AGM batteries. When we broke camp, we had 82% charge remaining. We used a normal amount of lights, but avoided the strip lights that have a heavy draw. We used the water pump, and the 2-way refrigerator set to 1.5. We watched a total of 3 movies at night, and charged various phones and tablets with the USB outlets. The ceiling fan ran day and night at 20%. By the last day, we were getting very little solar replenishment due to overcast conditions.

Water and waste water--we started with a full tank of fresh water, and empty gray and black tanks. When we broke camp, we had 1/3 of the fresh water remaining, and had filled 2/3 each of the gray and black tanks. We did dishes inside for about half the time, and outside for the other half. We used the toilet normally without wag bags. I used the shower one time, but my husband and I both used the bathhouse showers for the most part. The rest of the water use was for hand washing and toothbrushing.

Conclusion--4 nights at a park without hookups was very comfortable, and involved monitoring rather than conservation. With stricter conservation (no movies unless we had sunny days to recharge the batteries), dishes only washed outside, no showers in the camper, we could've easily gotten 5 nights. I think with strict boondocking conditions where there wasn't a bathhouse, we probably could go 3 nights without dumping some gray water. All in all, the experience was a success and gave us greater confidence in booking campsites without amenities, plus it was an awesome trip to the Finger Lakes in NY for our anniversary and my husband's birthday! 

Denny16

Great write up Deb, thanks for sharing, and happy Anniversary!

Cheers

ontheroad

Love the Finger Lakes area, belated Birthday and Anniversary wishes!

pthomas745

What you don't tell us is what your battery capacity is.  I'm going to guess that you have at least 100 amp hours.  You wound up at 82 percent capacity.  By my math, that means you used 18 amp hours total in 4 days, and if the last day with little sun was the big draw.........you did great.  You had 82 more amp hours you could have used.  It would take a couple of days of movies to use that much power. 

The point is: the trailer is very efficient.  Your battery is "huge" compared to the trailers of a couple of years ago.  The solar panel is, too.  So, splurge a little as you get used to all this "power" stuff. 

But, good for you for paying close attention.  When the sun isn't out and you really need to conserve, this will be a useful benchmark.

Denny16

A TaB400 with dual 6-volt AGM batteries has a total of about 200-230 AmpHrs, with around 120-140 amps available to use.  You can draw the battery down to 35-40 percent remaining without any issue.  We redline our 200amp AGM at 12.0 VDC.  That said, never have glee to bellow 12.5 VDC with the 193 watt solar setup, even when running the 12VDC compressor fridge all weekend.
cheers

warbler_road

Now this is some extremely helpful info. Thanks to you all.

Deb55

@Denny16 I'm perpetually confused by the battery, but I think I'm at least starting to get it. However, the Victron read 82% charged, but at the same time, the Victron said (at one point) something like 11.97 volts, which seemed low. Is that because I wasn't getting the true voltage reading that I would get if I turned off the switch and everything that could draw power and rested the battery for a short while? By the time we actually left, it still said 82%, with about 12.2 or 12.3 volts. I'm not sure how it all works together. 

Sharon_is_SAM

@Deb55, the Victron battery monitor gives you a real time state of charge.  It looks at multiple variables including voltage.  Having said that, whenever your battery is under load (appliances, lights, pump, LPG detector, etc) your voltage drops.  Under the same load it will continue to drop if not offset by more amps via solar than are being consumed.  

So, take a look at the current.  A negative number means you are drawing from the battery.  A positive number means you are feeding the battery.

Deb55

@Sharon_is_SAM, I get that, but can the Victron show 82% charge and 11.97 volts, which to my mind is much lower than 82%? Can I rest assured that 82% is 82% and not a problem whether it is at 11.97 or at 12.3? I'm trying to figure out which number gives me the state of the battery so I don't destroy it. My understanding of these AGM batteries is that you really shouldn't go below 50% if at all possible. 

Denny16

@Deb55, normally for longest battery life, keeping the discharge above 50% is usually given a s optimal, but the same charts show you can go down to 40% of full charge with minimal loss in recharge cycles and battery life, both are reduced by around 2-5% when dipping to 40%.  You are seeing a 11.97 voltage reading at 82% of,charge, because as Sharon expa,I Ned, the battery is under load, being used to power the fridge, most likely, causing a lower voltage reading.  Next time you are at 82 or 80% shut off the battery disconnect switch, wait five minutes than take a voltage reading.

The opposite is also true, if the battery is not under a load or then.oad is less than the charge being applied by either the shore power connection or solar panel, than the voltage reading will be high, I have seen 13.5VDC coming in when the trailer is shut down, and the solar is getting good sun.

Your only true reading is with the battery not is use, nor being charged, then you get a true battery voltage reading.  If you have solar, then wait until after dark,
turn off the battery disconnect switch, wait five or so minutes,
then take a voltage reading.  

You will get a close to true voltage level reading of the battery bank. 
cheers

Deb55

@Denny16 I know absolutely that I'm going to try that one of these nights! 

pthomas745

Here is the example of "false capacity" of a battery in use that I did last year. I had not fully charged the battery yet, and disconnected the solar panel to do the test. The "consumed Amp Hours" at the bottom of the display shows me I've "used" 2 amp hours before starting the test.   I ran the fan at low speed for about 15 minutes and then took this screen shot.  On the left, the battery voltage is being listed at 12.09, with the fan running.  The current and power show what the fan and the other "drains" in the trailer are using.  On a state of charge chart, this voltage would indicate I've brought my battery down to 50 percent. 

The shot on the right side:  the fan is off, and I've turned off the battery switch.  Current and power are now at zero, since there are no demands on the battery at all.  The battery almost immediately showed the 12.46 voltage reading after the battery switch was turned off, which on the state of charge charts would be about an 80 percent reading.  This screen shot was taken after the battery "rested" for only 10 minutes, and if I waited another half hour it probably would have gone into the 12.50 or higher zone.

It took me a long time to get this concept in my head...but after I figured it out I relaxed quite a bit about my battery use. 

Deb55

@pthomas745 thanks--that was helpful! So in your illustration, you can assume the actual state of the battery is the 99% shown? Everything else is fluctuation due to what is being used or not used at the moment? I'm hoping this is the case, because it will allow me to stop obsessing about the battery and enjoy my camper more! 

pthomas745

Maybe the "actual state" wasn't 99 percent, but it certainly wasn't as low as the 50% the 12.09 indicated.  Yes, everything else is changing as the power load increased or decreased.  You can watch this happen almost in real time.   I would check your Victron app with the same sort of test.  I'm not sure if the "State of Charge" display would also drop as the "voltage" display does when the battery is under load.   

 

I also keep a running tally in my head.  I know my trailer uses about 4 amps a day in "parasitic drains", such as the gas monitor, etc.  If I'm running my propane fridge, that goes up to about 6 amps a day.  So I can reasonably predict, without any extra solar, my battery will be around 80 percent in 24 hours.  As long as I can monitor my battery, I can just try to make sure I don't wind up below that magic 50 percent level.  On my little battery, I would have to watch my laptop use if the sun doesn't come out and recharge me.  This is where the monitor really helps: you can see the true state of your battery, or at least have a pretty good idea, and start to conserve when the sun might not be working for you.

So...you have 120 amp hours to use!  What luxury!   You do have to manage your fridge (I'm always confused at the fridge power use in the 400)  but you have plenty of battery, a big solar panel, and a decent monitor.  The trailer is very efficient.  Even the TV and DVD player might only cost you an amp an hour to watch a movie.  You will get used to managing it all, and soon barely think about it..except for binge watching the Victron screen!

Have you found the Unofficial Tab 400 Manual?  It has a big spreadsheet giving the amp hour use of many of the electrical fixtures in the trailer.

Blueespy

Deb55 said:

Whew--this is the 3rd time that I have attempted this post, and something has gone wrong! If it doesn't work this time, it wasn't meant to be. I thought I'd write up our experiences as relative newbies to camping in a trailer, in hopes that it would help other newbies who want to try boondocking or state parks with no hookups.

We have a 2018 T@B 400 with a newly installed 190 watt solar panel on the roof, a Victron battery monitor, and we've replaced the Fantastic Fan with the Maxxair Deluxe. Our water and waste tanks are the standard 30 gallon fresh, 18 gallon gray, and 12 gallon black. We don't have a generator or inverter. We camped for 4 nights in a state park with no hookups, but it did have a bathhouse. The days were partly sunny to overcast, and the temps were high 70s to low 80s during the day, and high 50s to low 60s during the night. 

Electrical--we started with a full charge in our two 6 volt AGM batteries. When we broke camp, we had 82% charge remaining. We used a normal amount of lights, but avoided the strip lights that have a heavy draw. We used the water pump, and the 2-way refrigerator set to 1.5. We watched a total of 3 movies at night, and charged various phones and tablets with the USB outlets. The ceiling fan ran day and night at 20%. By the last day, we were getting very little solar replenishment due to overcast conditions.

Water and waste water--we started with a full tank of fresh water, and empty gray and black tanks. When we broke camp, we had 1/3 of the fresh water remaining, and had filled 2/3 each of the gray and black tanks. We did dishes inside for about half the time, and outside for the other half. We used the toilet normally without wag bags. I used the shower one time, but my husband and I both used the bathhouse showers for the most part. The rest of the water use was for hand washing and toothbrushing.

Conclusion--4 nights at a park without hookups was very comfortable, and involved monitoring rather than conservation. With stricter conservation (no movies unless we had sunny days to recharge the batteries), dishes only washed outside, no showers in the camper, we could've easily gotten 5 nights. I think with strict boondocking conditions where there wasn't a bathhouse, we probably could go 3 nights without dumping some gray water. All in all, the experience was a success and gave us greater confidence in booking campsites without amenities, plus it was an awesome trip to the Finger Lakes in NY for our anniversary and my husband's birthday! 

Great write up.  We recently had 2x3-day stays at local State Parks.  Our site provided water and electricity but no sewer.  We arrived with full batteries and empty gray/black and fresh water tanks.  Our only concern was the gray tank.  The temps were high 80s so showers were a must but at both locations the bath-houses were closed.  We were able to take showers each night (modified - wet, soap, rinse turning water off between cycles) and do our limited dishes without issue.  So, six showers, some washing in the kitchen sink and on day four (departure) we finally got four lights on the gray tank meter.