For Those Who Relish Boondocking...A Head's Up

AirBoss

Must admit up front I've not boondocked much since purchasing my rig. That said, even the preliminary thoughts of limiting access to public lands does not sit well with me, whether I use them or not. They are, after all, our lands...as mentioned here:

https://drivinvibin.com/2020/12/31/abolish-boondocking/

DougH

Scary story. I dry camp in a wide variety of sites from rest areas, municipal or county free parks, to NFS and BLM areas. I have noticed more highway rest areas getting "No Camping" signs lately... so maybe state transportation departments are trying to discourage RVs, and keep the pavement for the big rigs. Or maybe they're feeling that same pressure that city governments are feeling from RV park industry representatives to ban wallydocking or barreldocking.

But I'm still of the opinion that primarily we RVers are doing this to ourselves... with all the people exceeding stay limits, trashing public lands or parking lots, not shopping in the morning at the Walmart or Cabelas that put you up for the night, and that kind of thing. I can't count the number of times I've found the perfect spot on Campendium and Google Earth, only to show up and find broken bottles everywhere and trash bags torn open and scattered by local animals. Who leaves a full plastic trashbag near a random fire ring with the assumption some forest ranger or game warden will stop by to pick it up?

pthomas745

A whole article without a shred of evidence.  "Its happening in New Zealand".......quotes from an "RV park forum" that he doesn't name.......I'm sorry I clicked.

AirBoss

@pthomas745
Take from it what you will...or not. 

Denny16

We should not take our Boondocking privileges lightly, or assume they will always be there.  Camping on public lands is a privilege that we currently enjoy, and to continue to do,so, we must follow the few simple rules in place to protect the environment and our continued use of these areas.  Also, paying attention to local policies regarding regional camping areas is also important, so we do not loose our privileges...
cheers

bergger

 New Zealand and America are two completely different animals.  With such a deep history of public land use and don't tread on me philosophy I really don't see boondocking completely going away.  Certain areas may be closed off because they get trashed and over used, I've seen that often, but it's not going to become illegal in America.  Many cities already have codes prohibiting camping and honestly I could care less if I can't spend the night in a walmart parking lot.  I never would anyway.  But public lands are a different animal than a walmart parking lot.  Poorly written article that seemed to just be pushing you to join a lobbyist group.  

AirBoss

Don't see myself spending the night in a Walmart lot either...with ya' there. 

Nor do I see use of public lands becoming illegal. Simply posted as a heads up. 

Think the underlying issue is there are forces out there that may not have a boondockers best interest at heart...both governmental and otherwise.  US media is full of examples of folks, whose IQ mirrors their height in inches, who could not care less about preserving our public lands.  

ColoradoSun

This seems a bit overblown. These decisions are made on so at so many levels I don't see any organized national effort. Besides "boon docking" means many different things to different people. Dispersed camping, typically meant setting up camp on public lands where no camping facilities or designated sites exist. That has evolve in some places to include sites with limited facilities (a vault toilet) and designated sites. It is all because what once worked fine for a few dozen campers a year is over loaded with hundreds of campers. Those responsible for managing these areas need to adjust management as numbers increase. In most cases on public lands the management options are open to public debate and input.

jkjenn

pthomas745 said:

A whole article without a shred of evidence.  "Its happening in New Zealand".......quotes from an "RV park forum" that he doesn't name.......I'm sorry I clicked.

Agree....interesting enough, Driving and Vibin were T@b owners for a brief minute when they first started FT life.

Slackers

I think the point is not to take this for granted.  Vigilance is the cost of freedom.

rfuss928

Boondocking and overnighting are entirely different.  Anyone who acts in a way that their overnighting gives the impression of camping should not be surprised if they are asked to move on.  An overnight rest stop in designated areas should not be limited based on the vehicle you are driving.  Spending 12 hours or more parked in a rest area or retailers parking lot is abusing the intent/courtesy IMO.

ontheroad

@rfuss928...I agree with what you said except for when a trucker can't find a spot to overnight in...and they have to continue driving...by law they can only drive so many hours and I'm sure most of them stay at the same spots pre-planned..no different than how my in-laws used to travel with their fifth wheel...I remember @Restless_Native saying that if she was going to overnight at a rest stop and it was almost full she continued on

jkjenn

ontheroad said:

@rfuss928...I agree with what you said except for when a trucker can't find a spot to overnight in...and they have to continue driving...by law they can only drive so many hours and I'm sure most of them stay at the same spots pre-planned..no different than how my in-laws used to travel with their fifth wheel...I remember @Restless_Native saying that if she was going to overnight at a rest stop and it was almost full she continued on

I prefer to not stop at overnight areas that are full, but I remember one occasion driving through a ton of rain and finally landing in Ogallala at the Walmart. 

They have an overnight parking lot, but I parked in the main lot by the overnight lot was full.

The Walmart employee was apologetic that it was so loud and assured me they welcomed me in their main lot. They actually built that Walmart dues to anticipated overnight parking and the revenue that it would generate.

I hate it when I see people abusing the Walmart privilege. I saw an RV with all sorts of stuff, including camp chairs out at Walmart in Montrose, CO. Disappointing.

ColoradoJon

I doubt this article pertains to Federal lands, National Forest, and other protected, publicly available lands.  It most likely refers to local public lands that are part of local city/town governments that are *not* protected by law.  These lands should be regulated in regards to camping.  Not all public land is available for use however you see fit.

I'll be perfectly honest here - there are way too many irresponsible campers out there now.  Here in Colorado I've seen some pretty trashed camp sites from irresponsible hunters, weekenders, and city folk that drive up into my backyard and leave their... waste... wherever they please.  And then there are the transient folk masquerading as campers.  They pull into parking lots, side streets, private land, or city owned land and stay until they are kicked out.  Yes, regulate this.  It is getting really bad.

National Forest lands are taxpayer owned so these will be available for use for quite some time.  I doubt it will last forever, though.  This is where I 'boondock', and I take care of my campsite and pack my crap out.

Michigan_Mike

These articles are good “food for thought” and for people to banter about ideas and concerns and to reinforce the fact that we all care about and want to protect federal and state lands for not only our intents and use, but for future generations to come.  This is why National Parks were established, to preserve Federal lands and make them a part of the public trust so that future generations could enjoy them too.  

I’m betting that the majority of individuals reading this article take care of and respect every campsite and area visited, take with them everything they brought in and aren’t careless litter tossers who flip baby diapers out and leave used beer cans/refuse along the trail.  I do my best to police up every campsite I stay at and pick up what others left behind.  

I’m guessing too that Federal officials would be hard pressed to monitor every square inch of BLM lands as they run for miles.  I think I’ve seen about everything in my many years of travel/camping have seen people living out on the BLM, have seen old school busses up in Alaska with dog houses outside, dogs chained to the house and cars up on jacks getting an old change and brake job.  This was at a Walmart in Masilla and these folks were flat out squatters and it was appalling to say the least.  I don’t take these privileges lightly and in the same breadth don’t take this article lightly.  I can see both sides here and the way things have progressed over the years here in the US, nothing surprises me anymore as society has changed, people are self centered and it’s scary when others think they can party into the night in close proximity to others, even in state parks, etc. where people go to seek some solitude, privacy, rent out a spot and take in some fresh air.  

Nuff said, protect, preserve, enjoy and continue to make your campsite(s) better and left in a more pristine area than it was before you arrived!  

dragonsdofly

@Michigan_Mike, thank you. Well thought out, elegantly said and appropriately applied. -Denise & Jim.

DougH

So it's Quartzite area RV time again.  I'm based in Texas, so would normally travel through NM.  Besides, it snows too much in Texas.  If I read:

  https://cv.nmhealth.org/travel-recommendations/

...regarding travel through New Mexico, it says I have to enter the state, but thereafter only leave the place of lodging (the trusty T@B) for medical care. And that's for the period of 14 days, or after the much smaller RV show this year is over.

I've been vaccinated (TX & FL started their Phase 1B for non-healthcare, non-1rst responders, and non-nursing home residents/staff much earlier than other states), but it sounds like to be in compliance with NM public health orders, I'd have to do TX -> OK -> CO -> UT -> AZ.

Anybody else travel through NM lately and been advised how RV through travelers are being handled?

jkjenn

Campendium has partnered with Friends of the Bridger-Teton NF to raise money to install pit toilets at one of the more popular boondocking spots just outside if GTNP. They have had volunteer camp hosts in that area for a few years and it is making a difference. 

I wish that we saw more creative approaches to solving these problems vs. the wholesale shutdown of areas that we have been seeing over the past few years. 

AirBoss

DougH said:

So it's Quartzite area RV time again.  I'm based in Texas, so would normally travel through NM.  Besides, it snows too much in Texas.  If I read:

  https://cv.nmhealth.org/travel-recommendations/

...regarding travel through New Mexico, it says I have to enter the state, but thereafter only leave the place of lodging (the trusty T@B) for medical care. And that's for the period of 14 days, or after the much smaller RV show this year is over.

I've been vaccinated (TX & FL started their Phase 1B for non-healthcare, non-1rst responders, and non-nursing home residents/staff much earlier than other states), but it sounds like to be in compliance with NM public health orders, I'd have to do TX -> OK -> CO -> UT -> AZ.

Anybody else travel through NM lately and been advised how RV through travelers are being handled?

Travelled thru northern NM in early October (Gallup, Albuquerque, Tucumcari) eastbound then again in mid/late November (Hobbs, Carlsbad, Roswell, Socorro, TorC) westbound. 

So, not exactly recently and given how this situation changes week to week perhaps not timely. What I can say is the entire time I was in NM (or any of the other 12 states I visited) I was never asked by anyone how long I had been in the state, where I was staying, was I just passin' thur, etc. All the RV parks were glad to see me and many owners weren't even sure themselves what was expected of them. And while they were all consciencious about it, they were not in a position to be the Wuhan police in their own establishment. Not good for business.

The reality is there is no way to monitor or enforce whatever "recommendations" the state decides to pass down. If you're just overnighting, not an issue. Pull in, park, wear a mask, distance, wake-up, and move on. Common sense stuff...probably what you're already doing and have been for, well, almost a year now. 

Fact is, state and local governments are relying on everyone to exercise self-control and judgment. That's basically all they can do. Do that, and you'll have no issues. 

Post up some pics and stories about Quartzite. Almost pulled the trigger on that one but my schedule just didn't permit it. Bucket list for me. 

DougH

@AirBoss Thanks!

From YT postings this week, it looks sparsely populated so far...

   https://youtu.be/tFtlGBM90jM

AirBoss

Wow...no idea this post would generate this level of negativity. 

I get information from all manner of sources and make it a habit to not discount anyone's opinion out of hand. Was their article up to Woodward and Bernstein caliber...no. Did it contain some information some folks may find useful, I'd believe it may...,which was my motivation for posting it in the first place.

We're all entitled to our opinions. As I stated above, take from it what you will...or not. 

ColoradoSun

No problem, really. If there is a serious threat to free dispersed/boondock camping it is that so many more people now doing it and the land can only sustain so much.

Cuffs

Just coming back to this forum from an absence, about to take delivery on our new t@b!

I see this is a few months old, but wanted to share some things I see with dispersed camping/boondocking...

I live right outside Zion NP.  (I used to live right outside Yosemite, and in a couple months, we are relocating to Grand Canyon. In case you couldn't tell, we work for the National Park Service )

The area just outside Zion is primarily BLM lands.  There are designated campsites all across it.  With the changes to camping-sheer numbers have at least tripled, and the number of people new to camping has exploded - the basic 'rules' have gone out the window.  Trash is being left everywhere. Fecal waste is just 'dropped' wherever is convenient to the campsite. Cant find a spot?  Just pull over on the side of the road, leave your full trash bag in the turn out... Baby diapers tossed out windows.  Camp fires when there's fire bans.  Creating new campsites and destroying fragile habitat in the process... Its mind-blowing to see these beautiful lands being destroyed.

The complete disregard for basic decency is not there in the campers that Im seeing.

As a devout camper, backpacker, I know this is not most of 'us' here on the forums.  I want to be able to access these lands on my time off.  I do not want to see regulations handed out that limits access to anyone. But I also do not want to have to dodge human trash or bodily waste to do just go camping.  

I don't have an answer as to how to manage the land better, I wish I did!  The way people have treated this area for the last couple years has disgusted me and I actually cant wait to move away from it.  yes, its that bad...

DougH

  

Sharon_is_SAM

That is very sad.  

Denny16

This is very sad indeed.  If this trend continues, we are going to loose theses free BLM areas for camping, that are being abused.  

Cheers

bergger

We've been dispersed camping the past two weekends near out house here in Colorado and so far I've been pleasantly surprised.  No trash and people seem to be taking care of the areas.  Hopefully that continues into the summer.  

homerd

On our trip to Alaska by way of Alaska Highway, Sometimes the Walmart and retail places that allow you to overnight saves you! We camped in Whitehorse, YK at a Canada Superstore (Grocery) because all campsites were full. Same at a Walmart when driving much to late to access a campsite. Felt blessed to have this option. Throughout Canada we were impressed with the lack of litter in all places as well as in Alaska. If I do find trash, I pick it up.

marleecamps

We may lose the ability to use Walmart and/or other businesses based on this type of legal action.  In a nutshell, the plaintiff left her two children unattended in her van while she went into Walmart to shop.  A nearby camper van caught on fire via a hot plate, causing the plaintiff's and other vehicles to also catch on fire.  Sadly, her 6 yr old daughter died.  (Yes, this occurred in a suburb near me.)

Essie McKenzie alleges that the retail chain's policy of letting people camp in its parking lots unsupervised led to a fire that killed her 6-year-old daughter.

https://www.kare11.com/mobile/article/news/local/mother-sues-walmart-after-childs-death-in-parking-lot/89-4b156476-0e93-44fc-a586-728b45b5a553

Her lawsuit alleges Walmart is negligent by not supervising these campers.  No mention of her failure to supervise her children.  Definitely a tragic situation, and it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

marleecamps

More info.  Evidently, the camper who started the fire had moved his van from the area used for camping into the main parking area after cooking breakfast and tossed the still hot hotplate into the back of the van before doing so.

https://youtu.be/CJww9EpguQU

Regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit, one wonders if Walmart or other businesses will rethink their policies.

Denny16

A truly tragic story, that could have been avoided.  The mon who left here children without adult supervision in her van is guilty of child neglect at the least, and possible child endangerment, and shares in the responsibly for this tragic accident.  The guy that was camping and put a still hot item into the back,of his van, is also responsible due to his neglect.  I do not see where Walmart is responsible at all.  The parking lot is a, use at your own risk convenience.
 Cheers