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lithium battery

Mellow_YellowMellow_Yellow Member Posts: 343
edited November 2021 in Battery/Electrical & Solar
Any thoughts on replacing an existing wet cell, group 24 battery with an equivalent lithium battery, such as: https://www.lynaclithium.com/product/12-8v-100ah-true-series/
Here's a related article:
https://rvdaily.com.au/12-pros-and-cons-of-lithium-batteries/
2014 T@B 320 S "Sunny" - 2015 Toyota Sienna LE - British Columbia, Canada
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  • VictoriaPVictoriaP Member Posts: 1,496
    Loads of threads around here on lithium. In your case, you might want to look at the ones that have self heating mechanisms. Lithium cannot be charged when temps are 32°F/0°C or lower, and I believe you’ve said before that you want to camp in winter.

    I’m planning on swapping mine once my current AGM is ready for replacement.
    2019 320s BD Lite, white with blue (“Haven”)
    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
    2020 Subaru Outback XT
    Pacific NW
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  • Mellow_YellowMellow_Yellow Member Posts: 343
    Thanks everyone. I'll post an update on my original 'dead battery' thread. 
    https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/12574/dead-battery-2014-t-b-320-s#latest
    2014 T@B 320 S "Sunny" - 2015 Toyota Sienna LE - British Columbia, Canada
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  • OlenaOlena Member Posts: 103
    I switched to lithium too and totally agree with Marceline.
    2021 T@B 400 Boondock Solo
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  • kbdigitiqekbdigitiqe Member Posts: 163
    To re-phrase Marceline’s comment though, we switched to Lithium and because we almost always Boondock it was the best decision we could have made and easily worth every penny. 

    If you’re mostly plugging into shore power though, the battery you’re using is virtually meaningless. 
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  • NCNativeNCNative Member Posts: 95
    I switched to lithium as well. Put in a new converter, victron battery monitor, and new victron solar controller. I mostly boondock and live in a temperate climate so it was worth it to me as I was always worried about my age batteries being drained too low. 
    N@VENOTSE
    2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite   
    SF Bay Area
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  • Mellow_YellowMellow_Yellow Member Posts: 343
    edited January 2021
    @NCNative - if I use an external charger, can I use the lithium battery with the existing converter? I got the new lithium battery a few days ago, but so far I'm not able to get the Alde going. I will check the circuit breakers and fuses in the trailer later today. Hopefully it's something minor.
    Update: replaced a blown fuse on the Alde and it’s all systems go!
    2014 T@B 320 S "Sunny" - 2015 Toyota Sienna LE - British Columbia, Canada
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  • sranderlesranderle Member Posts: 78
    I added a  pair of lithium  batteries2 years ago without changing the converter.  I have an external charger that I can use on shore power or via a generator.  I also set up my TV to charge while we are driving.  The setup works great!  I can go 5 days with normal use, which includes a CPAP machine every night.

    We no longer have to worry about getting electrical sites.
    Steve & Sherry
    2016 T@b Q
    Lakeville, MN
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  • DesertDwellerDesertDweller Member Posts: 129
    I just went lithium as well.  Over the weekend I installed a Battleborn 100Ah battery and a Victron SmartShunt.  I previously installed a Victron Smart Solar MPPT solar controller (I have the factory solar panel on the rooftop).  I have not changed the OEM WFCO converter.  As others, I mostly boondock in a temperate clime, so the deep discharge capacity of the Li battery appealed to me when it came time to replace my SLA battery.  Right now the battery and SmartShunt are both in the propane tub, but I am considering moving them to the storage space under the passenger bench seat.  I think I will get more use out of the increased storage space in the front tub than I will lose by placing the battery in the inside storage area.  Has anyone moved their Li battery to that space in a 320?
    2019 T@B 320 S Boondock Lite a/k/a "The D@wghouse"
    2012 Jeep Liberty KK a/k/a "Libby"
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  • sranderlesranderle Member Posts: 78
    We replaced the front tub with a truck box style box.  It holds both batteries, propane, and various other supplies.  The new front box is probably the third best mod, behind the lithium batteries, and a Lagun table mount.
    Steve & Sherry
    2016 T@b Q
    Lakeville, MN
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  • Mellow_YellowMellow_Yellow Member Posts: 343
    @sranderle - I'd love to see photos of the new box, including how you mounted it and more information on the box itself. 
    2014 T@B 320 S "Sunny" - 2015 Toyota Sienna LE - British Columbia, Canada
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  • sranderlesranderle Member Posts: 78
    Unfortunately, it's covered with snow right now.  :open_mouth:

    I'll try to pull together some info and see if I have some photos.  I followed a box install by member Klenger.  Unfortunately, he no longer has a T@b and the web page no longer works.
    Steve & Sherry
    2016 T@b Q
    Lakeville, MN
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  • NovaTabNovaTab Member Posts: 91
    FYI the OEM WFCO converter will not fully charge this battery, only 85% as per WFCO
    2021 TaB 320 Boondock, Gran Cherokee TrailHawk

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  • DesertDwellerDesertDweller Member Posts: 129
    @NovaTab Understood.  I am counting on AZ's many sunny days and the solar charger which is configured for LiFePO4 to keep my battery charged.  I rarely camp with shore power.  
    2019 T@B 320 S Boondock Lite a/k/a "The D@wghouse"
    2012 Jeep Liberty KK a/k/a "Libby"
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  • kbdigitiqekbdigitiqe Member Posts: 163
    Also regarding the WFCO not fully charging the Li battery - we just bought a separate charger for $39 that we use to top off before we hit the road. We keep it with us in case we need it along the way but never have
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  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,989
    @Mellow_Yellow Here are the threads for "tongue box".  Click on the image, and then click to get to the thread.  There are dozens of aftermarket boxes like this.

    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • Mellow_YellowMellow_Yellow Member Posts: 343
    Update after my first trip out with the new lithium battery: I can hardly believe my battery monitor. After a 48 hour boondocking trip in mild winter conditions, the battery still registers 100% charged. After my last experience with a totally dead wet-cell, I was miserly with my battery usage, but after 24 hours I realized that I could use the LED lights all I wanted. I ran the fridge and Alde on propane the entire time. I know the Alde uses some battery while running on propane, but even so, it didn't make a dent in "100% charged".
    2014 T@B 320 S "Sunny" - 2015 Toyota Sienna LE - British Columbia, Canada
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  • kbdigitiqekbdigitiqe Member Posts: 163
    Yep @Mellow_Yellow preach! This is why I cannot understand how it’s even a debate on this forum tbh
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  • DesertDwellerDesertDweller Member Posts: 129
    I am hoping to take the D@wghouse out this weekend for its first boondock experience with a BB LiFePO4 battery.  Hopefully I will have results that are just as good.  I am kind of miserly with my battery usage anyway, but maybe I will splurge this weekend.  Should be full sun where I am camping, so plenty of amps to be captured.  
    2019 T@B 320 S Boondock Lite a/k/a "The D@wghouse"
    2012 Jeep Liberty KK a/k/a "Libby"
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  • Mellow_YellowMellow_Yellow Member Posts: 343
    Thoughts on best practices for maintaining the lithium battery? I store my T@B 320 S in the driveway. I estimate that I will use the trailer for short trips once a month or so. How long is too long to leave the battery in the trailer?
    I bought a lithium-compatible battery charger/maintainer. It has an outside air temp reading and is a smart charger. Should I hook it up to the battery when the T@B is in the driveway? This is the model I bought: 
    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08NVG5ZT3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    2014 T@B 320 S "Sunny" - 2015 Toyota Sienna LE - British Columbia, Canada
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  • pthomas745pthomas745 Moderator Posts: 3,989
    edited February 2021
    Turn the battery switch off and don't do anything.  A fully charged battery will hold a charge for months.  There is no need for .....anything.  My last camping trip was November of 2019.  I have a small battery that has been sitting on my garage floor since then.  It still is registering 12.4 state of charge.  15 months.
    A search for "self discharge of lithium batteries."
    2017 Outback
    Towed by 2014 Touareg TDi
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  • MarcelineMarceline Member Posts: 1,610
    Mellow_Yellow said:
    Thoughts on best practices for maintaining the lithium battery? I store my T@B 320 S in the driveway. I estimate that I will use the trailer for short trips once a month or so. How long is too long to leave the battery in the trailer?
    I bought a lithium-compatible battery charger/maintainer. It has an outside air temp reading and is a smart charger. Should I hook it up to the battery when the T@B is in the driveway? This is the model I bought: 
    https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08NVG5ZT3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    I would just be sure to disconnect the battery when you get it home - by pulling the 30a fuse or turning the switch, depending on what you have. Then put the charger on it before your next trip to top it off. Of course if you have a non-heated battery you’ll have to pay attention to the ambient temp when charging. 
    San Francisco Bay Area
    2013 CS-S us@gi
    2015 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner Double Cab
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  • Mellow_YellowMellow_Yellow Member Posts: 343
    @Marceline - done! I pulled the 30a fuse. thanks.
    2014 T@B 320 S "Sunny" - 2015 Toyota Sienna LE - British Columbia, Canada
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  • ColoradoJonColoradoJon Member Posts: 415
    kbdigitiqe said:
    Yep @Mellow_Yellow preach! This is why I cannot understand how it’s even a debate on this forum tbh

    It's a debate because the lithium batteries do not magically 'create' power, allowing you to use more.  They are simply vessels that store power.  There is something else at play here - like increasing the storage capacity and adding additional or more efficient charging equipment.  There is nothing special about lithium, except for the outrageous cost.
    Jon & Angela | Florissant Colorado | 2017 Outback S
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  • Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited February 2021
    And you can discharge them to a lower level, getting more useable power.  They also maintain a higher voltage longer as they discharge, keeping the voltage above 12 VDC during the discharge cycle.  But once they get towards the last 10-15% of their charge, the voltage drops quickly.  This is what Mellow Yellow is seeing on his volt meter, the lithium is maintaining a higher voltage reading after being discharged 20-40% than a lead acid or AGM battery would show.

    So while a 100 amp lithium does not hold any more power than a AGM or Lead Acid 100 amp battery, you will get to use more of that 100 amp hr of power, as you can discharge the lithium down to 10-15% of its full charge level, vs 50% for lead acid and 60-70% for AGM.  At 60% discharge level, the lithium is going to have a higher voltage reading than the other two also, giving you more useable power.  

    Additionally, a 100 amp lithium is going to weigh less, and occupy less space than the other two types of batteries of the same capacity.  So you do gain something besides paying more for a lithium...  ;)
    cheers
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • N7SHG_HamN7SHG_Ham Member Posts: 1,261
    @Denny16 and shorter recharge times, no Peukert effect. If you are always on shore power, you don't care about anything but initial cost, if you camp off grid AND you keep your RV for 10 years, LiFePo4 wins in all catogories including the initial cost. Per usable AH over the life of the battery, there is no cheaper alternative, even with higher initial cost.
    2019 T@B 400 Boondock Lite
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  • Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    edited February 2021
    Yes, the shorter recharge time makes solar charging even more efficient, and if this was true, not heard this before, and it would be the best setup for boondocking.  
    Cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • RetireeBCRetireeBC Member Posts: 66
    Mellow_Yellow said:
    Any thoughts on replacing an existing wet cell, group 27 battery with an equivalent lithium battery, such as: https://www.lynaclithium.com/product/12-8v-100ah-true-series/
    Here's a related article:
    https://rvdaily.com.au/12-pros-and-cons-of-lithium-batteries/


    Did you also install a DC to DC charger? Is it necessary? If you did would you share how this was done? 

    2019 TAB 320s
    Vancouver Island
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  • Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,431
    A DC/DC charger is only necessary if you want to charge your lithium battery from your TV whilst going down the road.  To charge the lithium battery from the mains/AC shore power, you need a lithium capable charger.  If you have solar, and a MPPT controller, you can set it for lithium battery charging, and the solar will top off the battery charge.  I use the solar, which also works whilst going down the road.
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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  • RetireeBCRetireeBC Member Posts: 66
    Denny16 said:
    A DC/DC charger is only necessary if you want to charge your lithium battery from your TV whilst going down the road.  To charge the lithium battery from the mains/AC shore power, you need a lithium capable charger.  If you have solar, and a MPPT controller, you can set it for lithium battery charging, and the solar will top off the battery charge.  I use the solar, which also works whilst going down the road.
    cheers

    This sounds like a good solution rather than using the DC to DC charger.  I have a 200 watt portable solar panel that I use now with my lead acid battery & which I find effective.  Can you tell me if I need to make a change to the 7 pin connector from my TV if I don't want the alternator to charge the battery?
    Cheers
    2019 TAB 320s
    Vancouver Island
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