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In the pre-purchase phase of the T@B 320. Have some questions!
jamiej529
Member Posts: 2
Hi Everyone!
With retirement less than a year and a half away, I've been starting to plan my grand adventure of a year of camping. After quite a bit of online searching, I've decided I'll go with a T@B 320. Some of my decsion has been because of this great forum...the "T@B Tribe!" In my dreams I'd by a new Boondock, but may need to get a used rig. I will also need to by a towing vehicle. I'd prefer to buy an electric or hybrid auto, but they're either way too expensive or don't have enough towing capacity. What would you all say would be the smallest, most reliable and fuel-efficient used SUV that would easily pull the 320? Should I go for a vehicle that can tow 5K or is 3500 enough?
Also...where do people hang thier clothes? In their cars?
Thank you!
With retirement less than a year and a half away, I've been starting to plan my grand adventure of a year of camping. After quite a bit of online searching, I've decided I'll go with a T@B 320. Some of my decsion has been because of this great forum...the "T@B Tribe!" In my dreams I'd by a new Boondock, but may need to get a used rig. I will also need to by a towing vehicle. I'd prefer to buy an electric or hybrid auto, but they're either way too expensive or don't have enough towing capacity. What would you all say would be the smallest, most reliable and fuel-efficient used SUV that would easily pull the 320? Should I go for a vehicle that can tow 5K or is 3500 enough?
Also...where do people hang thier clothes? In their cars?
Thank you!
Comments
I just went thru the same issue and just got a Grand Cherokee TrailHawk, it is towing machine and not too much more than a subaru etc.
Unfortunately vehicles in the 5000 lb towing category are not known for their fuel efficiency. But there are plenty of options in that category, and many are available in good used condition. For a fulltimer planning on extensive travel, I’d be looking at the smaller pickup trucks with that towing ability—Ford Ranger, Ford F150, Canyon/Colorado, Honda Ridgeline, Toyota Tacoma. Put a cap on the bed and you’ll have all the storage you could possibly need.
As far as hanging clothes in a 320? You can use a tension bar in the bathroom which you’ll need to remove when showering, hooks can be placed anywhere there’s a solid wood surface (which is not the exterior Tab walls), or use a bar or extendable hanger in the tow vehicle (lots of options commercially available). Most people go instead with clothes that don’t need hanging. There are quite a few posts here about how to manage the extremely limited storage in a 320.
As a side note: Online research and anecdotes can only take you so far. If you haven’t spent at least a few hours in a 320, I strongly suggest you do so before you get your heart set on this plan. If you can possibly rent one, do! They’re terrific niche campers, no doubt, but I can’t tell you how many people start out enamored of the idea of a tiny trailer and quickly realize it’s not practical for the way they want to camp. And this happens even more frequently with people setting out on major journeys. We’ve even seen people who upgraded to the 400 just a couple weeks into a continental tour. I tell everyone interested in these that they need to go to a dealer, tell them you need time alone, and then act out everything you would do on a daily basis. Pretend to get dressed (and discover how low the ceiling really is! LOL) Act out cooking, setting up the bed, showering and using the toilet in that very small bath...especially in a pre-2021 320, where the bath is miniscule. Think about what it would be like to be stuck inside in bad weather for a couple of days. Fulltiming in a 320 can be done, and we have plenty of folks who’ve done it, but it does take a lot of compromises that you wouldn’t experience by going with even a little larger trailer.
(One other thing, because not all our newcomers realize this...there are pretty major differences between a 2021 and all the older 320 models. Make sure you are OK with those differences whichever model year you choose, and understand their impact on your camping style. Two of the biggest are the switch to the 12v only fridge, which basically mandates a bigger battery setup than is offered stock, and the cassette toilet versus black tank waste setup.)
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
2020 Subaru Outback XT
Pacific NW
Now, don't get me wrong. It does taking some getting used to...especially for two people. The evening routine of getting ready for bed, brushing our teeth, etc. is a choreographed dance that we are still perfecting. But, when camping, we are outdoors whenever possible. For us, the T@B is perfect for a warm, dry place to relax and sleep after a full day outdoors.
I will say that, even on short weekend trips, we basically fill the back of my Ford F150 with additional gear. I do not like clutter, so I try my best not to overfill the T@B or the cab of my truck. But we do tend to fill the truck bed with food, a cooler, fishing gear, our sun/rain canopy, a portable grill, my dutch oven, etc. I have a tonneau cover to keep things dry and installed some ladder racks to hold my kayaks. My next upgrade will probably be a 'Jack-it' style bike rack...again...because by truck bed is full.
The bottom line is that I agree with the others above. I would recommend that you do not 'undersize' your tow vehicle just because you have a small, light camper.
2018 320S Outback
2021 T@B 320S Boondock “The T@B”
Towed by a white 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercab, 3.5L V6 Ecoboost “The Truck”
Harpers Ferry, WV
I own the Outback @Sharon_is_SAM suggested. It has just 900 lbs payload, which sounds like a lot until you start adding things up. Again, payload = people, pets, gear, and tongue weight, everything in or on top of the car. 10-12% tongue weight of a loaded 2300 lb trailer = 230-276 lbs (of your 350 lb limit). Google says the average weight of a US female is 170 lbs and male is 190 lbs...to simplify calculations, let’s say 150. Per person, so double that if it’s a couple. Add in 50 lbs for the mid size dog many of us bring along. Oh, and an extra 30 lbs because you’ll need to have a full size spare for the AWD, the included donut won’t cut it for towing.
Without ANY gear in the car, no bikes, kayaks, canopies, chairs, or coolers, we’re already at 600 lbs+ payload for a reasonably fit traveling couple. It’s a bit better than that if you’re solo and dogless, of course, a bit worse if you struggle with weight or are traveling with two big dogs, as we’ve certainly seen people do around here. But regardless...how many Tab full timers do you know you who don’t load up their vehicle with a ton of stuff? Your average Yeti cooler is 30lbs empty...now add another 20 lbs of ice and then your food or drinks. How about an ebike or kayak (or both, as I’ve seen plenty of people do)? Extra clothes? Extra water at 8lbs per gallon? Tools? Other hobby gear? I used to carry 50 lbs of camera stuff on trips, not exaggerating. Or the 15 pound bag of dog food that doesn’t fit in any of the Tab cabinets. It’s all too easy to push your vehicle to its limits before you know it when your limits are that low and you’re carrying everything you own around the country.
Truck versus SUV argument: I almost always argue on the mid size SUV side, because I personally dislike driving (and especially parking!) trucks. My exception to that recommendation is again, full timers. Trucks are built to tow and haul gear with ease, plus no worries about where to carry your backup generator and the fuel for it, or extra propane, or a full cassette/small blue boy tank for dumping, none of which should ideally be in the passenger cabin. And, in an accident, having your heavy or bulky gear in a contained truck bed is far safer for you than the back of an SUV. SUVs are built to carry people, towing is pretty much an afterthought on a lot of them, and especially on the smaller ones. Because trucks are built to tow, with bigger engines and beefier transmissions, it’s not uncommon for them to get a bit better mileage when pulling a 320 than a comparable SUV. The only reasons I can think of to go with an SUV for towing full time are that you need to carry a large family (and well, at that point, we’re no longer talking about a 320) or you already have one and can’t afford to switch right now.
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6r (unsafe 200lb tongue weight limit until 2020 models)
2020 Subaru Outback XT
Pacific NW
Thank you all!
Draco dormiens numquam titilandus.
jamiej529: You are making a great choice with the 320. We have owned our 2015 since new and love it. I have done a few mods and enjoy camping in it. We have a small dog and he is a great camper too, We tow with a 2016 Toyota 4 Runner and can't even tell it is following us. I keep looking in the rear vu to check on it. You are embarking on an exciting adventure. The T@Bs are so well built, I have not had any problems. Austin is a great resource to help out when you have a question. Good luck my NuCamp friend.
2015 t@b 320 TV Toyota 4 Runner Rockford, IL
Hang clothes? It's camping. During long adventures I have one or two "nice" outfits that I keep clean in vacuum bags. I have a few command hooks on the walls to hold some coats. Everything else gets stuffed into cabinets & duffle bags.
2013 CS-S us@gi
2015 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner Double Cab
@jamiej529 I can identify with your situation, though in my case, I am headed to Retirement Part Deux, and a bit sooner than you, hopefully early this spring. As others have said, it's very valuable to spend some time in a 320 before going ahead and getting one. We were lucky enough to have had the opportunity (pre-Covid) to do that, not only with T@B campers but also with several others. The 320 is small - or cozy if you like - but we think it will work for us and our mid-size Welshie. Only time will tell however. We're still waiting for our 320BD to be delivered but are in the stretch run on that and should see it early in March. The spring retirement is not a coincidence.
We plan to use our T@B for long trips, often to fairly remote locations, and also want to be able to access the occasional boondocking site via unimproved roads. Our mid-sze V-8 powered AWD SUV will work fine for the 320 (it worked well towing my SunCat), but since it is 13 years old, is likely to need replacing a few years down the road. I would prefer to go with a BEV, and while that's not a viable solution at present, the situation should be quite different in a few years.
For example, GM and Ford will have capable electric SUVs and pick-up trucks on the road by 2023 (the new Hummer and the electric F-150). There are also start-ups like Lordstown and Bollinger that will be selling similar vehicles by then. With range and affordability being key however, the only real options seem to be the Tesla Cybertruck and the Rivian SUV or pick-up. For various reasons, the Tesla doesn't work for me, but the Rivian seems to fit the bill.
There are two Rivian variants: SUV (R1S) and pick-up (R1T). Towing and payload are sufficient for trailers far larger than even the T@B 400. The R1S can tow 7,500 lbs and has a payload capacity of 1,800 lbs. The R1T can tow 11,000 lbs and has a 1,760 lb payload capacity. All Rivians are built on the same platform with a 4-motor 4WD system, fully adjustable air suspension, have tons of storage, very nice cockpits and Level 3 autonomy at release, with L4 soon (and L5 hopefully in the not-too-distant future). As with all EVs, acceleration is outstanding - zero to 60 in 4 seconds. The ideal vehicle in all but one way: Range.
The R1T has just started production and will begin delivering in June; the SUV will be available starting in 2022. Unfortunately the range of the launch editions of either model are not sufficient at only 300+ miles. An extended range aka, Max Pack variant, will have a much larger battery pack and a nominal 415 mile range. The Max pack equipped pick-up is scheduled to start delivering in late 2022 or early 2023. Of course, the nominal range will drop considerably hauling a trailer.
Rivian says its data show that range for the R1T is decreased by 50% when towing at max capacity (testing was with a box trailer at 11,000 lbs.) The lighter and much more aerodynamic T@B should do far better, but the actual range hit is not linear and so tough to calculate. If we assume the impact is 25% rather than the 50% hit of the 11,000 trailer used for testing, that means a routine effective range of about 250 miles. This assumes starting with 80% SoC and recharging at 20%, as generally recommended by EV makers. That's almost good enough for use with today's charging network. The EV fast-charging infrastructure is rapidly expanding however and it not unrealistic to assume it will be greatly enlarged by 2023. In addition, Rivian has already started building out their Adventure Network which aims to put fast chargers in more remote locations, like near national parks, and should have a fair number in place by 2023.
As far as cost, the Rivian is roughly the same as fully equipped Suburban or Expedition, maybe a bit less if you get in early enough to take advantage of the Federal tax credit (not sure if Canada has something similar.) The true cost to own should be much lower than for an ICE vehicle however, so in the long run, something like the R1S/T may represent a better value proposition.
2021 T@B Boondock CS-S
2018 Nissan Pathfinder
Ontario, Canada