Lithium battery install for new Tab 320 CS Boondock

jebjam

Yes thank you @Dutch061, I was looking at these this morning and they non-blem batteries were $50 off the regular $949 price, this sale popped up in the last few  yours.  The sale is on until 1 PM today (PST I guess), website says 8 PM but I'm guessing they are going fast.  Got my order in, wasn't planning on doing it today but like CharlieRN, that's a deal and its done, I've been looking at these for a year.

Dutch061

To clarify the necessity of a DC to DC Charge controller as per Battleborn "typically the wiring on the TV will limit how much amperage can be passed to charge the batteries". Obviously there are exceptions to everything. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY2b71zoyvg&list=PLEWN3AEgk3Ly2ToECmpU3LGRQFq6eXxo3&index=7

Watch this before you buy or add a DC to DC Charge Controller.

Brad

CharlieRN

Bumping this thread for some more newbie questions relative to lithium batteries, particularly relevant since I pulled trigger on a blemished BB 100Ah on Friday (thanks again to Brad for the tip). All of the questions relate to my 2021 320 S Boondock.

• Regarding the WFCO, do any setting changes need to be made for the new Li battery?
• For the Victron 75/10 solar controller, I understand that the changes to the settings are done via the smartphone BT app - make them before or after connecting the new Li battery?

dsfdogs

@CharlieRN the stock WFCO doesn't have any switches to convert to lithium charging. It will get most of the BB charged-some report 80% but mine did 99%. I assume your solar will top off the battery which is important for balancing the cells.

dhauf

I just got finished installing a progressive dynamics pd4135 power center in my camper.  I replaced the WFCO unit and opted for this to alleviate having to have a separate shore charger/converter.  It has the switch to go from lead acid to lithium which is a constant 14.6v.  I also got the Renogy 100ah battery for $600 which is a great deal.  The reason I went with this one over battle born was not only price but the ethernet ports on the battery that allow upgrades to the BMS firmware and also you can plug a Bluetooth adapter in which cost about $35 and you can use the app as your monitor to see amp draw, battery percentage, cell voltages, etc.  This makes for a cleaner install and less wiring needed for current shunts.  I watched the review that Will Prowse did on YouTube and he said it was a good quality battery for the price.  Battleborn is a great brand, but this fits my needs and so far is holding up to the competition in my opinion very well.  I have the 130W panel from the factory with a Victron MPPT charger, I just had to go into the settings to adjust the parameters to charge lithium at the proper voltage.

DharmaScout

We've got the the 2021 Tab320 and switched out to BB LiFePO4 battery. Love it. Easy swap, out with the old, in with the new. We were always on the edge with the stock battery and that power hungry fridge when boondocking. Now no worries with the lithium. For a $20K+ camper seems like a no brainer investment. Makes life on the road less worrisome.

MikeWright01

I had read in older posts that WFCO didn't recommend using LiFePO4 batteries but looking at their website now, I see they have a "Lithium Solutions" which includes my WF-8735 Power Center/Converter installed in my 2021 T@B 320S.  The T@B is not a BD not a BD but I did get the factory installed Solar panel that uses the Victron 75/10 controller.  I just purchased a Battle Born 100Ah battery so I''l see how my existing WFCO performs before purchasing a different converter.

**UPDATE**  The WFCO website is a little misleading.  It says the 8700 series will charge Lithium batteries BUT, digging deeper into their literature it's only the models that end in LIS which mine does not.  If you want to buy a replacement power center, the going rate as this post is $157.00 most places.

CharlieRN

@MikeWright01 - good information, thanks.

I just purchased a BB 100Ah LifePO4 battery for my 2021 320S-BD. The WFCO is the 3735P model, which looks like it is not going to fully charge the new battery. That's regrettable - a 2021 converter unit really ought to be able to handle Li, or at the very least be able to be easily upgraded to do so - but in the case of the BD (or equiv), is not catastrophic.

The Victron solar controller can easily be set for Li, so will get the battery to full charge, at least occasionally. From what I've read, Li batteries are happy with that and don't need to be fully topped up all the time. Again, from what I read, a weekly or bi-weekly full charge is suggested, but once a month or so should be OK.

SusanD

So I made the switch to a 12V Battleborn battery and so far, I couldn't be happier.  I do want to say that it wasn't exactly a direct swap of one battery for the other which is what everyone makes it sounds like.  It took me a full afternoon to install the thing!  The battery case that held the old battery was too small for the new battery.  I had to take it out (it had been screwed into the tongue of the trailer), go to Home Depot to buy a box, cut a hole in the side of the box for the wires to go in, stick the box down with double sided tape and put the new battery in.  I couldn't quite find or understand the exact order to put the terminal wires and screws on so I called Battleborn and they emailed me the manual and walked me through it. Then I stuffed some foam around the battery to make sure it was tight, put the lid on and now it's perfect! Absolutely no regrets just a long afternoon spent for a "direct replacement".

Marjimae

SusanD said:

So I made the switch to a 12V Battleborn battery and so far, I couldn't be happier.  I do want to say that it wasn't exactly a direct swap of one battery for the other which is what everyone makes it sounds like.  It took me a full afternoon to install the thing!  The battery case that held the old battery was too small for the new battery.  I had to take it out (it had been screwed into the tongue of the trailer), go to Home Depot to buy a box, cut a hole in the side of the box for the wires to go in, stick the box down with double sided tape and put the new battery in.  I couldn't quite find or understand the exact order to put the terminal wires and screws on so I called Battleborn and they emailed me the manual and walked me through it. Then I stuffed some foam around the battery to make sure it was tight, put the lid on and now it's perfect! Absolutely no regrets just a long afternoon spent for a "direct replacement".

Susan, I camp in state parks with no hookups and also want to be able to use the fridge and have hot showers. So far, I’m adding a 100w portable solar panel to my setup. I’m about to replace the original battery with a SOK 100ah lithium battery. I was worried about finding a battery box to fit it but read that it’s not necessary for a lithium battery as it has a sturdy case and no leakage problems. Hope that’s true.  For now, I will put it in the battery/propane box, but might consider moving it to inside my 2019 T@B 320 cs-s for security. I would have to have it done as I don’t have the skills to do it myself. 

MadCityJack

Marceline said:

 NovaTab said:

not as fast as you'll want or at need

I called Wifco they said 85% and do not recommend

Maybe I'm suffering from a failure of imagination, and I know that people use these trailers in a lot of different ways, but I've had a lithium battery for over a year now and I don't understand what "not as fast as you'll want or need" means. 

If I'm depending on the battery for power, I'm dry camping and I'm recharging it via solar and the converter isn't a factor. If the solar doesn't keep it topped up (winter or bad weather) then I put the battery on a charger when I get home (I don't have rooftop solar). If I had rooftop solar, it would top up the battery while the trailer's parked. What's the hurry? What's the "need" for a faster recharge?

If I'm camping with hookups, I'm not depleting the battery, so again, what's the "need" for faster recharging?

Under what scenario do you want or need faster charging from the converter?

I totally agree.  

MadCityJack

I used our new lithium BattleBorn battery for 4 nights of dry camping, using "suitcase" solar (135 watts) to charge on 3 of the days.  Given shading and clouds, even with a 30 feet of cord, I only got in a couple of hours/day of power ranging yielding a total of 8 to 13ah/day.   However, I already did a drive way test demonstrating to my satisfaction 5 days of continuous powering of my 3 way Norcold on propane along with the auxiliary fan.  Letting the battery rest, I estimated more than 40% remaining capacity--may have been up to 60%--I kept notes but can't find them now.  Moreover, I used a voltmeter to estimate capacity and that is a crude instrument for lithium batteries.  I am shunning shunts for now, despite their apparent wonderfulness.  I am keeping our battery in the front tub, fastened tightly and locked as best as possible.  

It was a new experience not to worry about battery status.  We are still in the habit of using a "solar" power station for charging of electronics rather than using our house battery, so that use was intermittent on our maiden lithium journey.   

On the way home (4-5 hour trip from Amnicon State Park near Superior WI) the alternator brought up the battery capacity.  I intend to use my NOCO Genius 10 to fully charge the lithium battery prior to our next outing.  That trip will be close to home.  

Over the winter season of no camping, we will be storing our camper outside with a cover--the battery will be removed and I plan on using it with a small transfer switch to provide back up emergency power to my furnace blower in the event of a power failure.  I plan to back up my EcoFlow River Pro (720 watts) with my Battleborn (1200 watts)u--DC to DC charging and use the DC to AC inverter on my EcoFlow to power the fan of the furnace blower (likely less than a 100 watts/hour).  BTW: given the Battleborn summer sale, I bought the 100 AH with the internal heater--just in case I need to charge the battery below freezing.  That would be bold for us, but I like options.  

Marceline

MadCityJack said:

Marceline said:

 NovaTab said:

not as fast as you'll want or at need

I called Wifco they said 85% and do not recommend

Maybe I'm suffering from a failure of imagination, and I know that people use these trailers in a lot of different ways, but I've had a lithium battery for over a year now and I don't understand what "not as fast as you'll want or need" means. 

If I'm depending on the battery for power, I'm dry camping and I'm recharging it via solar and the converter isn't a factor. If the solar doesn't keep it topped up (winter or bad weather) then I put the battery on a charger when I get home (I don't have rooftop solar). If I had rooftop solar, it would top up the battery while the trailer's parked. What's the hurry? What's the "need" for a faster recharge?

If I'm camping with hookups, I'm not depleting the battery, so again, what's the "need" for faster recharging?

Under what scenario do you want or need faster charging from the converter?

I totally agree.  

To be fair, it was pointed out to me that if you are using a generator to recharge the lithium battery at a campsite (rather than solar) you might want a more efficient converter. 

CharlieRN

Marjimae said:

 

Susan, I camp in state parks with no hookups and also want to be able to use the fridge and have hot showers. So far, I’m adding a 100w portable solar panel to my setup. I’m about to replace the original battery with a SOK 100ah lithium battery. I was worried about finding a battery box to fit it but read that it’s not necessary for a lithium battery as it has a sturdy case and no leakage problems. Hope that’s true.  For now, I will put it in the battery/propane box, but might consider moving it to inside my 2019 T@B 320 cs-s for security. I would have to have it done as I don’t have the skills to do it myself. 

@Marjimae - it is absolutely the case that lithium batteries don't leak, nor do they give off gasses as lead-acid batteries do. Since there is nothing to leak, they do not need a battery box, and they may be mounted in any orientation.

That said, I put my BB 100Ah battery in the battery box that my flooded-cell came in and left it in the storage box, simply because it was the easiest and most convenient way to install it. I also mounted my Smart Shunt on the top of the case, again because of ease of instillation. I do need to figure out a way to make it more difficult for malefactors to enrich themselves however.

We have so far only dry camped as part of Harvest Host stays, so our experience with the new battery is limited to only a day or two off-grid. The Li battery has performed well on those occasions though, and I have not even had a need to to set up our Renogy solar suitcase. We have some longer dry camping planned for the Fall, but I'm confident that water, not power will be the limiting factor.

MadCityJack

CharlieRN said

That said, I put my BB 100Ah battery in the battery box that my flooded-cell came in and left it in the storage box, simply because it was the easiest and most convenient way to install it. I also mounted my Smart Shunt on the top of the case, again because of ease of instillation. I do need to figure out a way to make it more difficult for malefactors to enrich themselves however.

@CharlieRN.  Re: enriching malefactors.   I also placed my BB 100 ah in my TAB tub which is open to rain at the back.  I mounted the BB with an adjustable battery mount, wrapped a Python Masterlock around the battery and the metal below drawing it as tight as possible, placed a wash tub over the battery and Python lock, used two nylon locking bolts to prevent hand loosening of the bolts.  Lastly, I secured a warning.   Of course, a thief will not be deterred, but I think I have inexpensively lowered the prospects of opportunistic theft.  

I will take the battery out for winter storage and I am considering using the battery over winter as a back-up to run my furnace fan in the event of a power failure.      

SusanD

@Marjimae I can see why they don't need a box but I am happy I put it in one.  It's easier to pile things on top of it - my hose and electrical cord in particular.  And I regularly find some water drips on top of the box so I feel pretty happy that my battery is protected.  I can send a photo if you'd like - if I can do it, trust me, you can too.  Last week I did 8 days of dry camping - with one long drive in the middle. Except for keeping the fridge off and using a cooler instead - which I'd do again - I learned that I had more than enough energy for lights and hot showers.  Thanks @pthomas745 for the encouragement.  I used my multimeter every day and found it hovering at 13.3V.  Plus, I shouldn't forget my Jackery 1000.  It kept all of our electronics charged, which in my world is almost more important than food!

Marjimae

SusanD said:

@Marjimae I can see why they don't need a box but I am happy I put it in one.  It's easier to pile things on top of it - my hose and electrical cord in particular.  And I regularly find some water drips on top of the box so I feel pretty happy that my battery is protected.  I can send a photo if you'd like - if I can do it, trust me, you can too.  Last week I did 8 days of dry camping - with one long drive in the middle. Except for keeping the fridge off and using a cooler instead - which I'd do again - I learned that I had more than enough energy for lights and hot showers.  Thanks @pthomas745 for the encouragement.  I used my multimeter every day and found it hovering at 13.3V.  Plus, I shouldn't forget my Jackery 1000.  It kept all of our electronics charged, which in my world is almost more important than food!

Susan, if you have a photo of the box you put in for your lithium battery, I’d like to see it. Looking in the tub today, I see that the back and sides give no protection for water splashing up…though we never seem to have rain in Southern California anymore so that may not be a problem. A box would keep it clean of all the spiderwebs!

pthomas745

@Marjimae Batteries are usually standard "group" sizes.  If you have a stock battery in your camper, it is probably a "Group 24."  And, there are standard battery boxes that match.  There are "Group" 27, 31, etc.

Once you figure out what battery you want, you should be able to find a battery box to match.  It seems that most 100 amp hour batteries, no matter what type, would be a "Group 27".https://www.amazon.com/s?k=group+27+battery+box&i=automotive&crid=END755PZLA13&sprefix=group+27+bat,automotive,213&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_2_12

MarkAl

Can someone confirm a rumor I saw that claimed NuCamp changed on the 2022 320 models and is using a new WFCO derivation that could fully charge Lithiums? 

Verna

@MarkAl, I saw a photo on Facebook of a 2021Cirrus truck camper (made by nüCamp) that showed they had the new WFCO that did indeed fully charge Lithium batteries. His was manufactured in May, yet another that was manufactured 2 months earlier had the non-lithium charging model. Here’s a copy of his photo if you want to verify the info (I did not verify it). 

dsfdogs

Interesting it's the 55 amp version. I wonder if the wiring was upgraded and what fuse at the battery was used. As the T@B came with a WF-8935 I replaced my converter with a WF-8935LiS so I didn't have to worry about those issues.

Da_Birds

I see a lot of people switching to lithium batteries on new(er) T@Bs. When we ordered our T@B I inquired about having a lithium battery installed. They said they wouldn't do it because it would void parts of my warranty. That being the case I've ruled out replacing with lithium until I'm out of warranty. So I'm wandering was my dealer "mistaken" or is everyone else willing to risk voiding their warranty?

pthomas745

A dealer said that?  Or NuCamp?

Da_Birds

Dealer told me that when we were discussing options when I ordered it. They only sell Nucamp and are a very respected dealer so I have no reason to doubt them.

SusanD

@Marjimae Here are a few photos of my handiwork.  Pretty basic box from Home Depot (measurements shown) with a hole punched in the side for the wires. Stuck to the bottom of the tub with double sided tape.  Hope this helps.

pthomas745

Well....the only way a product can "void the warranty" is if the product you install actually causes the "damage" to whatever warranty part that fails.  How a lithium battery would be recognized by any 12V part in the trailer and then destroy itself because of it is.......mystifying.  It is just another thing a dealer says that has no basis in reality.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states that a dealer must prove that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

Da_Birds

pthomas745 said:

Well....the only way a product can "void the warranty" is if the product you install actually causes the "damage" to whatever warranty part that fails.  How a lithium battery would be recognized by any 12V part in the trailer and then destroy itself because of it is.......mystifying.  It is just another thing a dealer says that has no basis in reality.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states that a dealer must prove that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act

Good to know and thank you very much for that information! I'm not sure why the sales person at the dealer told us that? They also tried talking us into just getting the standard battery to start with rather than upgrading at all. Their reason was that it's an easy upgrade to make down the road after we had some experience and knew better what our needs would be. We didn't get the hard sell on anything but were talked into getting the microwave because it would make it easier to resell our T@B, which makes sense.

In fact the whole sales process was so low pressure we thought it was too good to be true and wondered if they thought we weren't serious buyers. I should add we have used our microwave a few times too and we are glad they talked us into getting it. This is why I felt I had no reason to doubt them. It has truly been a wonderful experience doing business with them.

With the record straight, looks like I'll be spending this winter researching our lithium options!

pthomas745

The dealers install the batteries.  Which means they probably have a few stacks of "standard" batteries to get rid of.  It seems, on just anecdotal evidence, that the stock 80AH battery and two way fridge on the newer trailers is just not sufficient, even with solar to help.  I can understand a dealer just not wanting to handle this sort of upgrade, what with the options (AGM? Lithium? Dual 6V?...will it fit? What about the converter....and on and on).   So, to make their life easier......a stock battery.  And, that is good advice to try everything out on your own and then decide if the upgrade is necessary.

AnOldUR

Da_Birds said:

... looks like I'll be spending this winter researching our lithium options!

Along with many other things. Good luck!

DenverJaguar

MarkAl said:

Can someone confirm a rumor I saw that claimed NuCamp changed on the 2022 320 models and is using a new WFCO derivation that could fully charge Lithiums? 

I can confirm this. I looked at my 2022 the day it was delivered and looked for this specifically. There's a switch on it for lithium.