Alde/Truma changing glycol brand in new models. (NOT A RECALL)

BridgerSunset

For a point of reference, I bought a 5 gallon jug of Rhomar (Rhogard RTU 50) a few weeks ago at a distributor up here (Northwest Pipe Fittings) @ $17 a gallon. 

It was the supplier found on Rhomar's website for our area.  It's an industrial store maybe geared toward plumber types, but I was just a schmuck walking in off the street.

pak

BrodgerSunset: what state are you located. I cannot find it in Spokane and was quoted 50-60/gal bulk from Airstream.

BridgerSunset

@pak
Montana - got it at Northwest Pipe Fittings supply house in Belgrade.

pak

Thanks

Denny16

You can locate a Rhogard/Rhomar  dealer in your state by clicking on the map here: http://rhomarwater.com/Where_to_Buy.html
This will give you a list of distributors in your state.
cheers

RCB

FYI. Rhomar fluid is near $50:per gallon.

ScottG

RCB said:

FYI. Rhomar fluid is near $50:per gallon.

That's a far cry from the $17/gal @BridgerSunset reported above. Where were you pricing this out, @RCB?

RCB

Scott,
Rhomar quoted $108 plus shipping to Canada. So about $150 min for a 5 gal pail. Sorry, that’s more like $30 / gal and more if in 1 gal containers I guess. 

ScottG

Yeah, that's pricy--though I think I paid ~$25/gal for Century TF-1 through Amazon. I didn't really shop around. Of course I only needed two gallons or so, so having to buy a 5 gal pail certainly adds to the up-front cost.

If you DIY with a cheap homemade pump set-up, the largest expense in any case is probably gong to be the glycol itself. 

Denny16

A $108 for five gallons of Rhomar fluid works out to $21.60 a gallon, so on a par with Century at $25 a gallon.  RCB is in Canada, so has CD to USD plus shipping to factor in, so yes in Canada a little more expensive, unless there is a Canadian dealer.
cheers

RCB

I spoke with NuCamp ‘customer experience’ this morning and was told that continuing with Century fluid is ok. This was a statement and not an opinion from NuCamp. So that is what I plan to do. Simply pump out 4 gal and pump in new Century.
The problem with changing to Rhomar is you end up with 20 to 30 gallons of liquid to properly dispose, not to mention the additional cost and time to do so.

Denny16

@Dalehelman in his post on switching glycol, checked his 2015 TaB for corrosion and found none.  He uses his Alde frequently, and it still has the original 2015 Century TF-1 fluid in it!   I am waiting two years, as I just had our glycol changed just before this announcement came out.  

Cheers

ScottG

@RCB, unless it's backed up by evidence (or at least context) I'm not sure the difference between a statement and an opinion. With so little information forthcoming (and it really should be coming from Truma/Alde) it's hard to tell what the true extent of the problem is, or how well anyone really understands it.

That said, I agree with you about the challenges of changing formulations, particularly for those of us on the fringes who lack easy access to qualified service centers. Although my T@B is among the corroded stepchildren, the damage in my case was limited enough that at this rate I will probably rot out before the Alde. So unless and until the advantage of switching at this point is compellingly clear--I'll probably stay the course with the Century (albeit with more frequent changes and inspections). Ultimately, everything wears out and I bought a camper to enjoy, not to have something to worry about.

And that, of course, is just my opinion (and not a professional one at that). YMMV!  :-)

Denny16

I agree Scott, if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it...   
cheers

RCB

Scott,

Statement vs opinion - I am 6 feet tall, opposed to;I believe (think, understand etc) that I am 6 feet tall. To your point, and I agree, that there has been no reasons offered by Alde to support the change. 

In that regard three things come to mind: 1. Rhomar might provide better protection; 2. Rhomar might be cheaper; and 3. Alde might have changed some component - however if that is the case such change should show up as a different part number for the same item.
Thanks for all the comments and advice. I’ve made up the pump assembly to your design and am about ready to pump. 

Ciao,
Richard

Denny16

I had the same thought, fact, I am 5’9”, and I know that.  I can hit my head in a 5’6” tall boat cabin (and have done so).  Opinion, I am also considering switching to Rhomar if it has improved protection.  However, I had already done by semi-annual fluid maintenance before this announcement became known, and used the Century TF-1.  So in two years, we should have more info, and I will re-visit this recommendation.
cheers

ScottG

It is my opinion that a statement may be a confidently stated opinion.  ;-)

TNOutback

So, I reached out to Alde for advice, since I am coming up on my 2 year interval this summer for changing out the glycol.  I asked them should I just stick with the Century fluid, or change over to the Rhomar product.  This was their reply:

We would highly recommend that you have the unit flushed and new Rhomar glycol put in it. the Rhomar has a higher level of corrosion protection and is what we would suggest using. 

Thank you, 
Chantal 

Best Regards,

Chantal Hershberger
Senior Customer Care Coordinator

bergger

That's the company response and expected since rhomar is the product they are now using in their product.  I am still conflicted on what I am going to do next spring when mine is due for it's first glycol change.  I'm leaning towards staying with Century and making sure I change it every two years and clean the hose connections at that time.  It is my understanding that the two products are very similar but the rhomar has more anticorrosion additives thus allowing a 5 year change instead of a 2 year change.  If I stay up on the Century changes most likely the system will be fine.  Right now nobody knows what the rhomar is going to do to the system in 1,2,3,4 or 5 years, or if you forget to change it after long 5 years.  If I can get the change done at a reasonable price locally or learn how to do it myself I will probably stick with Century. But that is not certain at this point.  Only changing it every 5 years is appealing as long as the anticorrosion properties last. 

TNOutback

I hear you; I’m a bit conflicted as well. I kind of look at it similarly to my Stihl outdoor power equipment. Stihl recommends ethanol-free gasoline, and if you have a service issue, my local dealer will push back on covering it under warranty if you have been using ethanol containing gas. Similarly, if I ever have an issue down the road with my Alde, I want to be able to say I’ve followed the OEM guidance and not give them an out. 

bergger

 I thought I saw somewhere in the pages of discussion that NuCamp said if you have Century fluid in your Alde that you can go ahead and continue using it?  It's not required to change to Rhomar for warranty purposes.

TNOutback

That’s the much discussed question on the forum; Alde is saying one thing, and NuCamp the opposite.  Alde's warranty on their system is just one year, as is the NuCamp warranty on the camper, so by the time the two year interval rolls around for the first glycol change, you are out of warranty anyway.  Personally, I think I’m more inclined to listen to Alde’s guidance since it is their equipment.  I don’t know if it would ever gain me anything should some corrosion issue surface in the future, but if it does, I can at least say I followed Alde’s guidance on the matter.

ScottG

I'm still waiting (though not holding my breath) on additional insight into the corrosion issue. As in...

• What exactly prompted the change in recommended fluid?
• Is Alde or nuCamp seeing the same corrosion issues reported here?
• Are there additional corrosion issues not reported here?
• If this is deposit corrosion caused by glycol interacting with non-anodized aluminum surfaces, is the new glycol going to make a difference?

I'm sticking with the Century for now--with so much uncertainty, completely and properly flushing the entire system is currently more expense and bother than it is worth to me. YMMV! 

bergger

I kinda agree with ScottG and believe I will stick with Century for now.  At this point is seems if any corrosion is being found it is isolated to the where the glycol hoses attach to the aluminum convectors.  With two year fluid changes and preventative maintenance on the convectors hopefully it will last for a long time.  If years down the road it ever gets too bad where you cant just clean off the connectors it seems like it would be fairly easy and cheap to just replace the entire convector.  As long as you can source them.  On European sites the convectors are only a few pounds each.  

Denny16

ScottG said:

I'm still waiting (though not holding my breath) on additional insight into the corrosion issue. As in...

• What exactly prompted the change in recommended fluid?
• Is Alde or nuCamp seeing the same corrosion issues reported here?
• Are there additional corrosion issues not reported here?
• If this is deposit corrosion caused by glycol interacting with non-anodized aluminum surfaces, is the new glycol going to make a difference?

I'm sticking with the Century for now--with so much uncertainty, completely and properly flushing the entire system is currently more expense and bother than it is worth to me. YMMV! 

All are good questions Scott. As for the deposit corrosion or glycol interacting with the non-anodized aluminum, in my experience, only old glycol coolant, (corrosion inhibitors effectiveness greatly reduced) has caused corrosion issues on untreated aluminum bits in the system.
cheers

BrianZ

ScottG said:

I'm still waiting (though not holding my breath) on additional insight into the corrosion issue. As in...

• What exactly prompted the change in recommended fluid?
• Is Alde or nuCamp seeing the same corrosion issues reported here?
• Are there additional corrosion issues not reported here?
• If this is deposit corrosion caused by glycol interacting with non-anodized aluminum surfaces, is the new glycol going to make a difference?

I'm sticking with the Century for now--with so much uncertainty, completely and properly flushing the entire system is currently more expense and bother than it is worth to me. YMMV! 

Great questions, @ScottG!
My educated guesses would be:

• See your second bullet
• Probably
• Most likely.
• Most likely & most likely.

And, although I hadn't yet seen your excellent questions before I wrote the following, please see my possible supporting explanation for them..
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/168024#Comment_168024

Can someone who has the new Rhomar fluid please measure the pH and tell us what you find?
Thank you!

Syd

I have another question - can you change the glycol to a completely different brand? One that has a pH level that is within the new specs? As our 400 is a 2019, and we got it second hand, and the Alde has only been used a small handful of times, does the glycol need to be changed out or just topped up. Finally, how to check for possible corrosion? 

Thank you guys for being the best T@B forum with the most helpful people!

Denny16

Syd, we have a 2018 TaB400 (Jan 2018 build), which we purchased from a previous owner and the Alde had the original fluid in it.  We had our dealer change it out late last summer, so it was 2.5 years old (fluid).  We had it replaced with Century TF-1, as that was the original factory (nüCamp) fluid used then (this was before the new fluid recommendation change occurred).  For a 2019 model, this year would be on the two-year change schedule.

As for going to a new fluid other than Century, you can use the new Rhomar fluid now recommended by Alde and nüCamp, but you need to flush out all the old Century fluid first.  Rhomar makes a special flush out fluid you use, followed by a distilled water flush, then drain and clear the water out of the system, before adding the new fluid.  Staying with Century, only requires draining and refilling the Alde system. 

Not all Alde units are having corrosion issues, you can check the rubber hose connections to the convectors to see if there is any bulging in the hose.  Also, if you are going to drain and change get the fluid yourself, once drained, you can pull off a hose connection and inspect the aluminum tube on the convector.  Only the outside surface under the hose is the issue.  The inside of the convectors, are anodized, and not likely to have corrosion issues.

Hope this helps.
cheers

Syd

@Denny16 - thank you for the fantastic detailed answer. I have to pick up the glycol (Century) this week, so I will figure out if I need 1 or 2 bottles (4L each). As far as I know, we do not have that particular Rhomar glycol up here. At least not at RV places. I might call around if needs be.

qhumberd

I also have a 2019 400 like you and just flushed and refilled my system with new century glycol. It takes a full 4 gallons to refill the system once it is completely drained. There is a very detailed thread on the forum that describes the different ways to do this. I used a small submersible pump for my flush and fill and it was quite easy.