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TAB 400 3 way fridge and solar

blackc2004blackc2004 Member Posts: 117
in Air Conditioning & Refrigeration
I just picked up a TAB 400 with 3 way fridge and solar. I was wondering what people have seen as far as battery usage with the 3-way on AC and solar? Is the solar enough to keep the battery topped up or will the battery still drain down?
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,489
    If you are on battery, you run the 3 way frig on propane - not AC. Solar with adequate sun will keep the battery charged.
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    blackc2004blackc2004 Member Posts: 117
    Sharon_is_SAM said:
    If you are on battery, you run the 3 way frig on propane - not AC. Solar with adequate sun will keep the battery charged.
    According to the manual if you leave it on "auto" it prefers AC over propane, so we'd have to manually switch it to propane? 
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    AirBossAirBoss Member Posts: 740
    I generally select manually anyway. Just my preference.

    Don't recall what the order of precedence is in Auto. Suspect it's "AC", then "Battery", then "LP." I could be wrong on that though (been known to happen.  ;)

    In any event just select LP manually and you'll be good. 
    2020 T@B 400 "OTTO" (build date 08/19)
    Factory Victron Solar; Norcold 3-way fridge
    '04 Chevy Tahoe Z71 DinoKiller
    San Diego, CA
    www.airbossone.com
    https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/owen-ashurst/shop


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    ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,421
    Just curious. What does this fridge do when it is set to "auto" and--as is the case here--there is no AC available? Does it automatically switch to a different power source?
    2015 T@B S

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    AirBossAirBoss Member Posts: 740
    Yes. In Auto, the unit automatically selects the power source...in order: 120vAC, 12DC, then LP.

    Yet another reason I prefer to manually select. Using 12DC is a last resort...even on a bright 🌞 day.
    2020 T@B 400 "OTTO" (build date 08/19)
    Factory Victron Solar; Norcold 3-way fridge
    '04 Chevy Tahoe Z71 DinoKiller
    San Diego, CA
    www.airbossone.com
    https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/owen-ashurst/shop


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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,489
    @blackc2004 - it sounds like if you leave it on Auto and end up using battery and forget to turn on your LPG, you will drain the battery.  @AirBoss - what is the DC amp draw for the 3 way in the 400?
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    berggerbergger Moderator Posts: 997
    blackc2004 said:
    Sharon_is_SAM said:
    If you are on battery, you run the 3 way frig on propane - not AC. Solar with adequate sun will keep the battery charged.
    According to the manual if you leave it on "auto" it prefers AC over propane, so we'd have to manually switch it to propane? 
    Yes if set on auto it will select AC over Propane.  If the AC is cut then it will switch over to propane on it's own, you don't have to do it.  IF you have the fridge on AC, not Auto, and the power cuts out then you will have to manually turn the fridge to propane.  If plugged in at a campground or house I recommend Auto just in case the power goes out and you are not there to switch it to propane. 

    If you are plugged into AC you have nothing to worry about for your batteries.  The AC will not only run the fridge but also charge the batteries at the same time through the converter box.  Also the solar will be charging the batteries at the same time so no worry.  When boondocking or dry camping, ie no hookups,  you will run the fridge on propane as Sharon said.  The fridge uses very, very little battery power so with the solar you again have no worries about the batteries.  Good solar will easily keep the batteries charged.  Even with using the lights and fans you will have no issues with decent sunlight.   If it is overcast for a long period you should still be fine for multiple days with the fridge on propane.  Just be cautious of using the tv and radio.  
    2021 T@b 400 BD  "Vixen Gail" 
    2018 Nissan Titan Pro 4X "Big Bird"
    Leadville Colorado
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    ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,421
    edited March 2021
    AirBoss said:
    Yes. In Auto, the unit automatically selects the power source...in order: 120vAC, 12DC, then LP.
    ...
    bergger said:
    ...
    If the AC is cut then it will switch over to propane on it's own, you don't have to do it. 
    ...  
    Sounds like two different answers here. I agree that prioritizing propane over DC would make more sense. Otherwise with a 3-way you run a pretty good chance of draining your battery if you lose AC while in auto mode.

    I assume these fridges self-light on propane? 
    2015 T@B S

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    AirBossAirBoss Member Posts: 740
    edited March 2021
    According to the Norcold manual for 3000 series: 



    I believe Norcold has since discontinued this series and upgraded to the 4000 series so perhaps they've altered the order of precedence? Dunno...

    And yes, they self-light on LP. Turn it on, select LP, ensure the green light on the fridge panel illuminates and you're off and running. 

    FYI, as a precaution I also always turn on the the "12V Switch" located above and to the left of the fridge. It it required when in 12V but out of habit I turn it on regardless of the selected mode. 

     
    2020 T@B 400 "OTTO" (build date 08/19)
    Factory Victron Solar; Norcold 3-way fridge
    '04 Chevy Tahoe Z71 DinoKiller
    San Diego, CA
    www.airbossone.com
    https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/owen-ashurst/shop


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    ColoradoSunColoradoSun Member Posts: 134
    I'm still confused by the purpose of the "12V switch" on the Norcold three way refrigerator. Initially I was told it was required as a second step to prevent accidentally switching to 12V power and draining the batteries. Somewhere else I heard it was to turn on a fan and should be used regardless of power mode. The latter seems unlikely but I could not find any mention of a 12V switch in the manual.

    I was also surprised and disappointed to read on page 8 of the manual that when operating the refrigerator at altitudes above in propane mode you "may experience reduced cooling performance...burner outages". Living in Colorado we're almost always above 5500' elevation. The manual suggests using AC mode above 5500'. Pretty hard to Boondock without the propane mode. Has anyone experienced these high altitude issues with the Norcold N4000 models?
    2021 T@B 400 BD, 2020 Toyota Tacoma Double Cab
    SW Colorado
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    Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Administrator Posts: 9,489
    edited March 2021
    @ColoradoSun - is there still a switch on the wall  just above the 3 way?  I know in previous years that switch was required to run the frig on DC.  https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/11498/refrigerator-green-light
    Sharon / 2017 T@B CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
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    TomCanadaTomCanada Member Posts: 286
    edited March 2021
    I'm confused about this as well.  During my PDI, I was told the switch was only needed to be turned on when running on DC, but I saw the following video (fast forward to 15:20 mark) explaining that the switch needed to be on to circulate the fan in *any* mode. I'm emailing nuCamp to confirm the real functionality - will post back here when I get a reply..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw9ZFKyh0mc 
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    ColoradoSunColoradoSun Member Posts: 134
    Sharon_is_SAM Yes the switch is there but I can't find any mention of it or its function in the manual. Perhaps it was added by NuCamp to help prevent accidental draw down on the 12V batteries.
    2021 T@B 400 BD, 2020 Toyota Tacoma Double Cab
    SW Colorado
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    TomCanadaTomCanada Member Posts: 286
    Got a response (that was fast):

    Thanks for reaching out to us with your question, sorry for the confusion on this button. The button above the fridge is for the refrigerator to run off of 12v battery. I hope this helps and if you have any other questions please reach out.
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    ScottGScottG Administrator Posts: 5,421
    I always wondered why those units had a separate switch to allow for 12V operations. Now I think I get it. If you leave the fridge on auto, but lose your 120V AC power, having that switch turned "off" would force the fridge to propane rather than battery killing 12V DC.

    At least that is my interpretation. IMHO, it seems that auto function on the fridge makes things unnecessarily complicated.
    2015 T@B S

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    TomCanadaTomCanada Member Posts: 286
    Agreed - I think it would be better if you could configure which modes 'Auto' supported - the button appears to be a way to overcome that fridge shortcoming.  Nice of nuCamp to put it in - how many RV makers would go to those lengths to work around a shortcoming of their vendors' product?  
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    TomCanadaTomCanada Member Posts: 286
    Fyi I sent them a follow-up:

    Thanks Michael!  So the fan will operate just fine without this switch turned on if I'm on AC or Propane?

    And the answer received:

    Absolutely, you are welcome! Yes, there is no 12V fan on this particular fridge but it does exhaust when on propane.
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    Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,445
    edited March 2021
    And the Solar system is not going to be able to keep up with the high drain of the 3-way fridge on DC mode.  This is why you have the propane mode, to cool the fridge when AC is not available.  The DC Mode is to keep the fridge cold whilst towing the trailer, not as a long term power option.  B)
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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    blackc2004blackc2004 Member Posts: 117
    WOW! Had no idea this thread blew up so much! Also just realized I confused AC and DC in my initial post!
    @Denny16 thanks, this was the answer I was looking for!

    Also @TomCanada  I've always wondered about that switch too! I was told it was to run a "fan" but now I'm glad it's finally cleared up!
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    Denny16Denny16 Member Posts: 5,445
    edited March 2021
    You are welcome.  Also, whilst running the fridge on DC when towing, I would pre- chill the fridge on AC, use frozen food to take with you, and/or add a frozen jug or two, (or the blue freezer packs) to help keep the fridge cool whist towing.  Many of the newer TV do not provide enough power to keep the taB battery up with the 3-way running in DC.  Between the solar and TV pier charge line, you should be good for a one day run, but imwould watch the charge level on the TaB battery, especially if you are not going to have AC power available at the camp site (boondocking).
    cheers
    2018 TaB400 Custom Boondock,  Jeep Gladiator truck, Northern California Coast.
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