Corrosion of Alde Convectors

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Changing out the Alde fluid..

fstop32

Forgive me, I'm a newbie... I was reading through this awesome thread prepping for a fluid change and wondered if anyone had encountered "the bulges"...  I found at least one bulging heater hose connection at each convector.  Being an old auto mechanic I knew bulges are NOT a good thing. Upon diving in, as I always do, I discovered my fear was well-founded.  I've tried to add a pic, hope it works.  I've also contacted Alde Service and have started emailing with Truma/Alde on what to do.  Just wondering if anyone else has run into this and what my future might hold.

Sharon_is_SAM

Has the Alde been working?  Any leaks?  Are you the original owner?  What glycol has been used?  Did you drain the Alde?

[Deleted User]

  oh no that looks bad. Sorry no advice. 

fstop32

I purchased it July 2020 and used it several time and heat work fine then i noticed a bulge in a heater hose at this connection.  Not long after that it began a slow leak.  Since first post I've removed all the convectors and they all have corrosion damage and will have to be replaced.  I haven't removed and inspected the boiler yet but I suspect it will also have problems.  Oh well, glad I've got time before our next trip! 8^)

ScottG

@ fstop32, I can't put my finger on the discussion, but someone recently reported corrosion in a different part of the Alde system. I think the T@B was bit newer. That's the only other report of Alde corrosion I can recall on the forum.

Hopefully, this is not a harbinger of things to come for my 2015. Have you tested the pH of the glycol? I'm curious if that would reveal any clues, as corrosion protection is part of what they glycol delivers, and apparently the main argument for changing the glycol so frequently.

Other possible culprits include defective parts, galvanic reactions from incompatible metals used in the system (which would be a design flaw), or maybe even mixing of incompatible glycol by the previous owner.

Could you determine what the convectors are made of? I believe the guts of the Alde are aluminum, so the convectors should also be aluminum or maybe stainless. If I have my facts straight (and it is certainly possible I don't) copper would be bad to mix with aluminum.

Sharon_is_SAM

@fstop32 - do you have pictures of the bulging hoses before disassembly?

ScottG

Given the important nature of this topic, and the likelihood it will generate quite a bit of interest and discussion, I'm giving it it's own thread.

Tabaz

Thank you Scott and Sharon for keeping this post active. This seems to be a highly unusual occurrence.  After almost five years of ownership, I’ve never seen corrosion in the glycol system.

fstop32

The bulge, unfortunately now bulges plural, were there pre-purchase and not new since July 2020.  Convectors are aluminum as are the short "unions" between hoses.  I've attached pre-dissection pics.  I know the fluid was never changed, only topped off before I purchased.  Previous owner did use the Century transfer fluid for top offs.  I'm picking up some pH strips today and will update when I know results.  Every convector has the "bulges" so I'm stripping them all out along with the hoses.  The T@b was used a lot and year round but overall cared for very well, so I'm suspecting at this point that it is fluid breakdown due to lots of heating cycles...  I've started an email conversation with Truma/Alde and will pass that along as it progresses.

fstop32

...and @ScottG and @Tabaz I'll be re-plumbing in a way to make frequent fluid changes much easier!  My back is killing me from trying to get to the reservoir tank.  I've been following the fluid change thread and I'm sure I'll be reaching back out when I get to reconstruction. 

pthomas745

A few weeks ago, there was this thread discussing corrosion at one of the hose/pipe connections. (cyoung's posts on page 2).

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/12879/empty-expansion-tank-and-glycol-all-over-the-driveway/p2

There was also a thread recently (I think!) with a reasonably new camper that had corrosion and hole in pipes (I might be mis-remembering the whole story.)  But, the owner had a photo of a sample of the glycol with some type of contamination all throughout.  Haven't found the thread or photo, however.

ScottG

@pthomas745, thanks for the link--that was the one I was thinking of. I don't specifically recall the second incident you described, but then again there are a lot of things I don't specifically recall...  ;-)

@fstop32, I'm looking forward to your continued updates!

Tabaz

I too recall that thread. The owner had a pin-hole leak in an aluminum connector. This problem seems different. The bulging pipe before the connectors is strange.

DougH

Deleted

Sharon_is_SAM

@fstop32  - Your first picture just looks like crystallized glycol.  Is that aluminum part also where the corrosion is located on the convectors?

Tabaz

Doug - the boiler chamber (water) is segregated from the heating component (glycol). This appears to be a glycol issue. Will now shut up and wait for educated minds to diagnose.

fstop32

I don't know about the parts inside the boiler proper but everything else I see is aluminum, convectors and hose unions all aluminum.  I'd be surprised (and dismayed) if Alde mixed Al & Cu.  Why it happened at rubber to aluminum connections...maybe some minuscule access to air???  The system has never been altered, all clamps, hoses, etc are original to 2015.  I still don't have pH update to post.

fstop32

As I was bent double removing the reservoir it dawned on me that the fluid has access to air...duh.  So I retract that idea, someone must have hacked into my user id and posted that (my story and I'm sticking to it 8^D

fstop32

I never would have thought finding pH test strips locally would be so difficult!  2 pics.  Once I got all that other stuff out of my way I had no problem getting to the Alde reservoir though 8^D
Ordered test strips, not in yet so no pH update.  The connections "to" and really near the Alde look fine, still have no idea what might have caused all of this.  I've got an appointment with my proctologist, boy is he going to be surprised when I walk in carrying my boiler... 

fstop32

Ok, just noticed when I posted that update that this thread jumped to the first page of discussions...I think I feel a case of "Munchausen by proxy" coming on...

ScottG

That's not you, just SOP for the forum.
 
Discussions are by default listed based on the date and time of the most recent comment. You'll sink again soon enough!  :-)

fstop32

Story of my life!!
@ScottG, do you know where I'll have to go to purchase new convectors & heater hose, new heater tube valves, etc?  I've also got some questions about different convector options, how many, fan forced vs not, etc..  I emailed NuCamp today about such but they haven't had a chance to reply back.
And, I'm probably going to install a new glycol drain on passenger side and was thinking about a wye connection with a ball valve in wheel well compartment that feeds through the side of the trailer at floor level to a water line type of connector on the outside...attach a short hose to drain w/o crawling underneath.  Maybe do it in such a way I could pump new fluid in through the same port to refill that side of the system.  I'd love to eliminate accessing the reservoir for anything more involved than topping off the system...thoughts?

ScottG

@fstop32, I'd suggest contacting alde.us directly (which it sounds like you may have already done), though I can't predict how responsive they will be.

Alde U.S. merged with Truma in late 2019, and communications with them were iffy for a while afterward. More recently, several members have reported being able to reach them and get good technical advice. Parts may be another story--last I checked (which was a while ago) they were only doing walk-up sales. I contacted a couple of their listed "service centers" to ask about sourcing parts and got zero response (except to be placed on their marketing email lists, of course...)

If you get a definite bead on where to source parts, please pass it along here. 

The idea of adding a second low point drain has been kicked around recently toward the end of this extensive discussion. I'm not sure if it would eliminate the need to access the reservoir for filling purposes, but it would certainly help with gravity draining all of the glycol. 

Maybe somebody else can chime in here with better advice.

fstop32

The alde.us folks (service) were quick to return an email response asking for more info on the unit...that was a week ago, since then crickets. I sent a follow up email yesterday as well.
Surely I won't have to drive up to Elkhart IN to get parts...

Denny16

@fstop32, your TaB is a 2015 320, correct.  You stated you purchased it in in 2020, and the glycol has never been changed, that’s five,to,six years since manufacturing.  Glycol is supposed to be changed every two years, which should have avoided this issue.

<<removed incorrect ordering info/-Verna, T@B Administrator>>

Verna

NüCamp does not sell to owners. You must contact s dealer who will then place an order with nüCamp and the parts can then be drop shipped to you. 

fstop32

Thank you @Verna, I want to get those parts in the works so I can get this baby back together!

tybladesmith

@fstop32 I did a (basement) heating project before Truma took over. PM me for a 2019 Alde parts catalog for part numbers a T@B dealer can order for you.

fstop32

Update on pH...finally got the strips and it looks like a "10", which I think might be a tad on the high side???

tybladesmith

@ScottG,  Alde bottom fill dual drain hose for bottom fill systems. ? Add this inline at a low point, clamp in-between and then drain/flush with distilled water before refilling with fresh glycol. Maybe even replacing the existing drain with a dual drain and fill under slight pressure to auto purge the air into the reservoir after the isolation clamp is removed using the onboard circulation pump. What do you think?