Echo Brake Controller and Grabby Brakes Question

Sprocket

TomCanada, you describe my situation perfectly.  On my last  trip I thought I just left my phone always in the car plugged in, and if I turned the car off, I redid the pairing.  But perhaps it is just a dropped Bluetooth connection that I am unaware of.  

@hustoncs I can’t turn things down much lower without turning things off. I am at 2, dropping to 1 doesn’t fix it.   I can’t go lower than that

does anyone have experience with this issue on steep curvy roads?  I’m kind of worried, but I don’t know what I can do about it before my trip :

TomCanada

Denny16 said:

This is the procedure I followed with the Curt Echo, and have no had any issues with grabby brakes.  I think this issue is caused by having either too high an output setting, which sets up for the trailer weight (this would not be noticeable at higher highway speeds or too high a sensitivity setting, which adjusts the trailer braking in relation to the TV brakes, so the trailer brakes set a little faster, or a little bit of both.  Too high a sensitivity setting with the trailer brakes engaging too soon, could result is a grabby brake feeling as the trailer try’s to stop the rig too fast.
 Cheers 

That sounds like a different issue. With minimum output and minimum sensitivity I still experience the grabbiness some time after starting my trip.  The search for an answer continues!

Denny16

Yes, just saw your comment to Tom, that is an odd issue.  Not sure, but I would contact Curt in case you have a defective controller, which does happen, and Curt is good at replacing them.
 Cheers 

Sprocket

My brakes are getting adjusted tomorrow so I can rule that out.  I’ll see what the mechanic says and then contact Curt if no adjustment was necessary

in my reading, I have to agree with TomCanada, it sure seems like a lot of people have this problem with the Echo

Denny16

Yes, but in most cases the issue turns out to be user error in the initial setup.  I had mine miss adjusted and got a grabby brake situation at speeds below 25mph, a quick readjustment to the sensitivity solved the issue.  Others turned out to be a bad Echo controller.  Kind of hard to make a solid determination about actual number of issues caused by bad equipment.  Our local RV repair facility is a Kurt dealer, and sells the Echo.  They helped us to get the unit dialed in for our trailer.  Whist I may have paid a few more $ for it, buying from a local dealer, I got the support and help I needed right way.
 Cheers 

Sprocket

@Denny16. I am curious about your settings.  I know everyone is different, but where do you set yours?

you are lucky with your RV dealer.  Ours called and told us they couldn’t get parts, and they asked us to get the brake controller installed ourselves.  This was after we had already paid for it. It was rolled into the cost of the tab.  

We found a Uhaul dealer who put in the echo for us.   Getting our money back for the trailer hitch and brake controller took around 6 weeks or so..

Binghi

I have my output setting at 10, which is the second to lowest setting, I believe. On mine the output settings are in multiples of five. The lowest setting is like no brakes at all on the trailer. Any output higher than 10 seems to make the trailer brakes grab too much.

I have the sensitivity at eight, although I must say it doesn’t seem to make much difference whether I set the sensitivity higher or lower.

The controller seems to work pretty well during the early parts of the day, then as the day wears on it gets grabby at low speeds. I’ve always attributed that to the brake pads heating up, but I have no idea if that is correct or not. It does seem to brake the trailer well going down mountain grades.

I have messed with this controller a bunch, including running through the factory recommendations of driving slowly in a parking lot and applying the trailer brakes with the app to adjust output, then driving slowly and applying the TV brakes to adjust sensitivity. I’ve deleted the app and reinstalled it. It doesn’t seem like a Bluetooth connection problem because it hooks up with my phone every time and seems to stay hooked up.

I have come to the conclusion that my Echo’s current behavior is about as good as it gets. As the old Chicago Red wine billboard used to say, it gets the job done.

Sprocket

Thanks Binghi,
it is really helpful to hear that it works well for you on mountain grades

Denny16

The Echo has a new software update, and I need to set it up,with the Edho on to see the settings.  I will post this when I do this next week.
 Cheers 

Binghi

Sprocket said:

Thanks Binghi,
it is really helpful to hear that it works well for you on mountain grades

Plus you can always increase the output of the controller at the top of the grade to increase the trailer braking, then reduce the output back down to normal when you reach the bottom.

Sprocket

Back from mechanic.  He said brakes were fine.  He took off the drum and cleaned out a lot of brake dust.  As I got close to home they felt really grabby again.  so I stopped the car and redid the pairing, but that did not fix the grabbiness issue.  I now have them turned down to 10 and 1.  (Before they were at 20 and 2).  

Binghi

I neglected to say this before, but I have kept my trailer brakes well-adjusted throughout this process. I don’t think it’s a trailer brake adjustment issue.

Denny16

Sounds like a defective Echo controller, contact Kurt customer service, they may be able to help you sort this out.
 Cheers 

Binghi

Keep the output at 10 and experiment with the sensitivity setting. You might find a combination that works well enough to convince you to keep using the Echo. That’s what I did. After all, the thing cost me north of $250. Don’t really want to throw it away.

Sprocket

I have contacted Curt to see what they say, and I’ll try the sensitivity setting.  I don’t see any 7 pin controllers with wiring harnesses for my TV on etrailer, but I am checking with them as well. 

tiny10Forward

Has anyone used a Curt Wireless brake controller with their TAB 320 or 400? We've experienced a weird issue... after carefully ;adjusting the brakes (4 times), the controller will suddenly "lock up" the brakes when we are braking at speeds at/below 5mph. This happens no matter how we adjust the %braking and the Sensitivity (we've even tried 20% braking and #2 Sensitivity). We've tried getting answers from Curt, but they are a huge company and never respond. 

tiny10Forward

I know brakes, and have adjusted my TAB 320 CS-S brakes four times.

The CURT Echo is plain and simple a flawed product.

Sad that they continue to sell it, and that folks (like me!) have read the marketing hype and actually bought it.

what a waste $$... time to buy a reliable, easy-to-use use and dependable wired brake controller that is not dependent on voodoo logic start-up config sequences and smart phone tethering <sigh>.

Binghi

“voodoo logic”: like it! Might have to steal that one…😏

Maple_Geek

My Curt Echo works absolutely fine with my 320S but if/when one day it gives up, I would seriously consider this one as a wireless replacement:
https://getautowbrake.com/

Denny16

Yes, we have not had any issue with our Echo brake controller either, once we got it set up correctly, which was not difficult.  I have heard good things about Autowbrake controller. And they are used by TAXA Habitats on their Cricket and Mantis trailers as OEM equipment, included with the trailer.
 Cheers 

PixandMsBee

Denny16 said:

The Echo has a new software update, and I need to set it up,with the Edho on to see the settings.  I will post this when I do this next week.
 Cheers 

Update for the APP or the controller itself? If it is the controller, any idea how to install the update?

Thanks! 

Denny16

You install the update on the phone application and it updates the Echo unit.  I haven’t connected the trailer since updating the application last week.  To get the update, being on a WiFi connection works best, select the Echo application on the phone, and it will load the update automatically, similar to how the Victron app works.
 Cheers 

Sprocket

I made some progress.  The brakes are still overly grabby, but now the blue line doesn’t instantly go to full.  

It turns out that part of my problem is that my 7 pin connector is not rigidly attached to the car.  It is just on a cable that I stuff in with the tire.  I pull it out when I need to tow and tie it to the trailer with grip ties.  The mechanic did it that way because of our long winters and overly salted roads.

It turns out that the connectors all need to be stationary during the pairing or the calibration gets messed up.  I secured my TV cable to the front of the tab and then plugged in, and it is working better. I can feather the brakes a bit, and it doesn’t always go straight to full…only sometimes. 

I still find the brakes to be overly grabby, but I am going to try making a bracket to hold the connector more securely. At least it should be good enough for my trip that starts next week. 

Denny16

Good, glad your sorted the issue.  

Cheers 

tabiphile

It is amazing that anyone buys these Curt Echos given the consistent theme of grabby brakes, meandering settings and the black art skills required to make them work. There are so many other brake controller options that don't sport all of these issues. 
What is the attraction to the Echo?

YanniLazarus

The idea that you can just buy an over the counter plug and play brake controller and skip the step of getting someone you trust to install one is VERY attractive- especially when just taking on all that buying a travel trailer, possibly for the first time, includes. it was for me, and I bought one.  The problem is that if there IS a problem, there are too many variables.  With grabby brakes on a new trailer you can't tell if it is a potentially quirky controller OR poorly adjusted brakes... and these days it's not easy to get diagnostic help.  I couldn't figure it out myself and couldn't find smart enough help, so I finally eliminated a variable by buying a hard wired controller. Now life is good.   I don't think it makes sense to risk the possibly small chance that you bought a wireless controller with... issues!

Binghi

If you don’t mind me asking, which controller did you buy?

YanniLazarus

A tekonsha...p3 I think. I found a car electronics place with installation experience and didn't have to deal with the trailer madness wait forever for service issues. 

Sharon_is_SAM

The Tekonsha Prodigy RF controller is a good alternative for those who wish to avoid hard wiring a brake controller.  Yes, you do need to attach it to the AFrame, but it has given us 5 years of trouble free brake control.  No need to use your phone.  Easy to set up, change brake power, test, etc.  Pretty fool proof.  

Denny16

You only hear about the problem cases with equipment, if I went by not using something because a few users had issues, I wouldn’t be owning a Jeep or TaB.  I go by personal research and experience, both have always paid off.  Very few manufactured items are problem or defect free, so one, some where wil, always have an issue with something.  Their are a lot of variables with any brake controller, and what works of one person, may not always work for someone else.  

The biggest source of issues seems to be the connection between the Echo and the TV. Another is the design, with its physical length being between the TV and trailer connection, adding leverage stress to the TV connection, which can cause issues.  Also having the phone display tied up bing used for the brake controller emergency stop button can be another issue.  

If the Echo doesn’t work for someone, there are alternatives, like Sharon’s Prodigy RF or the Autowbrake controller, both of which I considered, and may eventually switch to, to eliminate the TV/trailer  connection issue and have a dedicated stop button.  But I do like the Echo phone app display, showing the amount of trailer braking being applied.
 Cheers