400: Amazing Trailer...Terrible QC

manyman297

I'll preface that we love our trailer so far. Granted it's a bit early as we just returned from our shakedown trip but we definitely see this getting used quite a bit. The materials and design are amazing compared to what's out there currently.

Where things turn sour are in nuCamp's lack of apparent QC. Upon receiving the trailer we had a slew of cabinet issues. Most were minor and required me to wrestle with cabinet faces and slides to get drawers to line up and close properly. Also, many fasteners were simply over-driven and I had to do the old toothpick and wood glue trick to get them to bite again. Woodworking tip...don't use an impact drill on tiny screws.

While all of these were an afternoon of work for me to correct, there lies a larger issue with the upper cabinets being racked (not square as you face them...more trapezoidal). This might require a complete removal of that upper cabinet to rectify...still investigating.

Finally, this weekend two plumbing issues came up. One was that the Hepvo valve under the kitchen sink wasn't even tightened so water began spilling out of it. Raised the grain a bit on the shelf but I was able to tighten and all seems to be good.

Second issue was the dreaded black tank flush not being tightened completely on the backside of the Nautilus panel. I know many people here and on FB have mentioned theirs wasn't tightened so I was ready with eyes on the back of the panel and sure enough it started streaming water from the connection. Again, tightened this and all seems to be fine.

If you're a new owner I highly advise you to do a driveway pressure test of your water system as well as the drains. We did this but didn't test the drains and the black tank flush.

Don't get me wrong, even after all of this we're thrilled about the 400. Warranty has been amazing to work with and is making sure we get parts for a few minor issues we've run across but my guess is they wouldn't be so busy if QC was doing their job in the first place. It's concerning that nothing is being pressure tested at the factory. And when I asked our tech at the dealer about the reported issues about the black tank flush leaking he assured me that "I tested it and everything works"...umm, ok buddy.

At any rate, this isn't a rant. I just hope those new owners see this and follow our advice. I've been in touch with nuCamp about all of this as well. Just hope they iron out these issues so new owners won't have to go through all of this.

Dutch061

I believe industry wide manufacturing quality is suffering as a whole. My opinion is this, during "normal assembly procedures there is a "standard work flow". It is my experience that as long as the "standard work flow and/or standard work procedures are followed" the results at the end of the assembly or manufacturing process are quite repeatable with a high level of overall quality.

Where the problem gets magnified are in a couple of different scenarios.

1. Workers are not following the "standard work flow or procedures", I could list dozens of things I have personally seen.

2. The inability to do the work in the "standard work flow fashion.

I believe the problem today is related to #2; that things are not being assembled using this "standard work flow" from beginning to end. Instead, things are partially built, pulled out of sequence and put back later when the remaining parts are available to complete the assembly process. This creates so many more possible failure points than can be imagined. 

Not meant as an excuse, but more so as an explanation to what I believe is going on. 

Brad

manyman297

@Dutch061
Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think anytime you have gaps in workflow you introduce room for error.

But I would add that if a proper and complete QC was done then most of these issues would've been caught. They should be pressure testing units prior to shipping. They already winterize them so just spend the extra time testing the lines before winterizing. Now they're stuck handling a multitude of warranty claims and complaints (time and money). Just seems shortsighted.

TomInPlymouth

So here's the confusing part for us as rookies, our TAB 400 2021 came from the factory without anything in any of the tanks...and by tanks I mean the ones measured by the inside gauges.  So, I don't really know what winterize means, I guess.  And so I also don't see how there could have been any pressure testing on any fitting, on any line.  (Perhaps that's impossible since I really don't know how the Alde works and there does need to be Antifreeze somewhere to get the unit out the factory door.)

Denny16

A factory Winterize is empty tanks, no water in the lines (blown out), and possible RV Anti-Freeze in the trap (non HEPVO trap in shower).  No water, no freezing = no damage.
cheers

MuttonChops

@TomlnPlymouth;
Disclaimer:  No direct NüCamp data, comments based on various 'factory tour' videos of several different RV trailer manufacturing companies.

Believe most RV manufacturers use a product Quality Sample Inspection method. One of every N units built is given an in-depth inspection including operating all (non-water) systems and leak pressure checks.  If issues are found the 'build station' is inspected/corrected.  The non-inspected units may or may not be inspected for that manufacturing error based on company policy and resource variables.  Focus is on correcting future builds not reworking completed units.

As for "factory" Winterized . . . all water systems are dry.  No water so no freezing concern.

As I said . . . just an opinion based on watching lots of factory tour videos across the RV industry.

Denny16

From what I have seen, some QC checks are performed on the line, like pressurizing the water lines with compressed air and a gauge to check for leaks, visual inspection, and standard electrical checks by the wiring team.  

The TaB is built on a multi-station assembly line, and the trailer moves from one department to the next.  Cabinets are built upstairs above the assembly lines, and are delivered down a chute to the respective line stations for installation.  Electrical work is done on a different station, and so on, until the body is attached and the completed trailer comes off the line.

You can see this procedure on Paul the Air Force guys factory tour videos for both the 320 and 400 TaBs.

cheers

ColoradoSun

We bought our trailer in December already winterized with no easy way to test all systems at the dealer. After reading of the problems of some new owners of 2021 T@B 400s on this forum I was fully expecting problems as we de-winterized. Fortunately, in our case, there have been no problems thus far (as I knock-on-wood). 

manyman297

The issues that floored me were the cabinets. These were in plain sight and were obviously not straight. Hard to believe anybody with a decent eye and an itch to do a decent job could miss that but maybe the suits in the front office are pushing these guys to produce faster than they can work.

I think for the kind of money we're paying these units should be bulletproof from the factory but maybe I expect too much. We had a Forest River popup before this and it was a mess. But for the money we paid I was somewhat ok with it. A lot of people like to crap on Chinese manufacturing but sometimes I have to think "Are we much better?".

TomInPlymouth

@MuttonChops To amplify from a newbit pov, the QC process affects things that you experienced users don't even need anymore.  For example, the manual for this trailer on winterizing refers to p 37 which reads:
Freezing climates can damage the camper’s plumbing system and equipment. The camper must be drained, blown out and have antifreeze protection before storing or camping in below freezing temperatures in fall/ winter. This is done through a process called winterizing. When getting the camper ready for camping season in spring you must cleanse the potable fresh water system to remove all the antifreeze. This process is called de-winterizing or sanitizing. User instructions for winterizing, de-winterizing and sanitizing can be found on the Nautilus plumbing control panel manufacturer’s website at:
Microsoft PowerPoint - Nautilus-P3-User 2 (bandbmolders.com) and found on p12 is winterizing (full monty) , no reference to dewinterizing, and nothing on "factory" winterizing.  It's hard to keep everything sync'd--I know that from experience.  

So I'm adding my 2 cents to the QC comment even as a newbie to add to the things you and others have mentioned, with the caveat that relying on inspecting in quality seems like a lost cause.  I have a drawer that doesn't shut flush on both sides, for example.  Whatever failproof jigs they're using to put screws and hardware in don't seem up to the task (as in not failproof).  And their hardware quality can be flummoxed by putting check valves in backwards or simply not tightening a "hose" like fitting.

All of that said, it's a beautiful trailer (the design is quite something), and they do seem to care even if my dealer is just cranking them out the door.  We're impressed.

manyman297

The good news is most cabinet door alignment issues (within reason) can be fixed. I'm a decent woodworker so I've had a bit of a head start but drawer slides have a good amount of flexibility when it comes to alignment unless you have a racked cabinet like I'm dealing with.

And yes, one of my biggest gripes is not having a quick reference on how to actually use the trailer. Yeah they have a manual but it doesn't really walk you through step by step. I'd love to see a manual that has scenarios like "hitching/unhitching", or "at a dump station". I had the hardest time with the Atwood coupler at first until I realized you have to pull forward just slightly to allow the hitch to release the ball. Just little things like that.

Thank god for YouTube and people wiling to make content to help us along.

TomInPlymouth

Yes, thank god for YouTube videos.  With luck you've read @Awca12a 's Unofficial nuCAMP T@B400 Resource Guide.pdf - Google Drive.  I have it and the nuCamp in .pdf so I can search the document when in a pinch.  What a resource.  A newbie is still a newbie, so I really don't ad lib yet.

Denny16

@manyman297 with that many issues when you got it, you should have taken it back to the dealer for warranty work, so nüCamp would be involved and know about the issues you need fixed. 
 Cheers 

manyman297

TomInPlymouth said:

Yes, thank god for YouTube videos.  With luck you've read @Awca12a 's Unofficial nuCAMP T@B400 Resource Guide.pdf - Google Drive.  I have it and the nuCamp in .pdf so I can search the document when in a pinch.  What a resource.  A newbie is still a newbie, so I really don't ad lib yet.

Totally forgot about that unofficial guide. Downloaded and saved. Thanks!

manyman297

Denny16 said:

@manyman297 with that many issues when you got it, you should have taken it back to the dealer for warranty work, so nüCamp would have to,pay the $ to get their issues fixed.  This would also bing these construction issues to nüCamp’s attention.
 Cheers 

I have little faith in the service department I bought the trailer from. They were the ones who told me they checked the black tank flush among other items. They couldn’t even bother washing it (claimed they did the day before and it rained). Unless there was a dust storm the day before I know it wasn’t cleaned at all.

Things like the cabinet doors out of alignment are things I’d almost rather fix. It gets me familiar with the trailer’s inner workings so I know where things are. I’m a compulsive DIY’er not just because I can save a buck; I usually learn a ton doing it on my own.

Denny16

OK, I understand.  You should sill report both issues, the trailer defects, and the dealer’s lack of proper support to nüCamp.
cheers

tabiphile

Quality cannot be inspected in. Random QA sampling works for piece parts but not for systems. The only way to control quality is to manage and control people and process. Many manufacturers live in the quality dark ages. If there are endemic process failures then a complete verification process must be done on every unit to qualify the quality system failures and to design a robust process that will burp out quality products...without fail, every time, even if standard work is interrupted.
As an aside, allowing parts problems to interrupt standard work in order to maintain a delivery schedule is a quality system red flag. 

manyman297

Denny16 said:

OK, I understand.  You should sill report both issues, the trailer defects, and the dealer’s lack of proper support to nüCamp.
cheers

Already in progress. nuCamp warranty has been great so far. We’ll see.

rrcbov

Some QC issues aren’t apparent.  In the process of installing a soft start for the AC on my 2021 Tab 400 BD I found misalignment of the vent manifold with the cutouts.  The end of the manifold was loose so I was cooling the AC compartment.  The alignment is off an inch. 

Denny16

I do not know what nüCamp does, but I would think, part of a good QC program, would be to put a thermometer in each air vent with the AC running and get a predetermined temperature reading to show cold air is circulating, and the unit is working properly.  
 Cheers 

manyman297

One area that deserves praise is the exterior fit and finish. Aside from the dents on the roof, everything seems to be very well done. Sure some caulking around the windows is a little sloppy but overall the outside was done with care.

Dutch061

There were a comment or two about a "random sampling" being used for QC. I can't say regarding RV's as none of the area that I covered (originally 7 states) working in Industrial Automation had an RV manufacturer in it. However, I have been in countless Auto Plants and other plants and can say this. In an Auto Plant 100% of every vehicle is inspected by QC before it leaves the plant. Does this mean they are perfect, uh no of course not.

I can't speak to NuCamp's QC method because I have not been to their plant as a vendor or a customer. If indeed they are doing a random QC sample, that would be an easy fix. The cost of any warranty repair VS. fixing it at the plant before it leaves is pennies on the dollar in comparison. The people added would easily pay for their compensation package by reduction in warranty claims.

Brad

manyman297

Dutch061 said:

There were a comment or two about a "random sampling" being used for QC. I can't say regarding RV's as none of the area that I covered (originally 7 states) working in Industrial Automation had an RV manufacturer in it. However, I have been in countless Auto Plants and other plants and can say this. In an Auto Plant 100% of every vehicle is inspected by QC before it leaves the plant. Does this mean they are perfect, uh no of course not.

I can't speak to NuCamp's QC method because I have not been to their plant as a vendor or a customer. If indeed they are doing a random QC sample, that would be an easy fix. The cost of any warranty repair VS. fixing it at the plant before it leaves is pennies on the dollar in comparison. The people added would easily pay for their compensation package by reduction in warranty claims.

Brad

This is what seems so shortsighted. Good QC would keep costs way down and take the burden off of dealer techs having to deal with all of these issues. It's a win/win. Just fix it before you ship it. It's how Japan manufactures vehicles. If something is wrong the entire production line stops and everybody pulls resources to fix the problem before starting up the line again. Just seems like common sense. I really hope they iron out these problems because if they did, they'd have a bulletproof product.

N7SHG_Ham

Unfortunately a lot of businesses run on the get it out the door model good enough instead of fixing it before going out the door. Always time to do it twice, never time to do right the first time, very prevalent across a broad spectrum of businesses here in NA. Not saying NuCamp is doing this, but I imagine there is some pressure to get stuff out the door with the high demand, supply chain issues, tight labor, etc.

Lil_Lucy

N7SHG_Ham said:

Unfortunately a lot of businesses run on the get it out the door model good enough instead of fixing it before going out the door. Always time to do it twice, never time to do right the first time, very prevalent across a broad spectrum of businesses here in NA. Not saying NuCamp is doing this, but I imagine there is some pressure to get stuff out the door with the high demand, supply chain issues, tight labor, etc.

Yes, unfortunately, it seems like a lot of companies have adopted a new Quality Policy. “If it’s shiney - ship it”.

Verna

Dear members, 

I have read this thread several times and I appreciate how frustrating it is to have our highly regarded TaBs delivered to us with manufacturing issues.  Owners come to the forum to report issues and to find assistance from fellow owners and that's great.  However, keep in mind, of the issues you see reported here, there are many more owners who do not experience manufacturing mishaps, but they don't report it!  So, it starts to look like there are far more issues than what truly exists. This is not meant to minimize owner's repair issues, but rather to keep our perspective with new and ongoing issues.  In this vein, there is always room for improvement by any manufacturer, and I do not think their QC is terrible as the thread is titled.  

NuCamp has reported a 1% warranty claim rate, which is a leader in the industry. QC is an ongoing process that nuCamp does take seriously.  I have spoken personally with the QC manager.  He reports that with the exception of making more campers each year, nothing has changed with the factory work process, so please stop speculating about their QC process.  It does not add value to the discussion.

Enough said.  I ask that you respect that nuCamp graciously provides us with this very worthwhile owner managed forum.  In addition, if you have ideas that would serve nuCamp well, please feel free to write an email to Help@nucamprv.com.  I know of no other company that will take your feedback and comments to heart like nuCamp.  

Verna

manyman297

Verna said:

Dear members, 

I have read this thread several times and I appreciate how frustrating it is to have our highly regarded TaBs delivered to us with manufacturing issues.  Owners come to the forum to report issues and to find assistance from fellow owners and that's great.  However, keep in mind, of the issues you see reported here, there are many more owners who do not experience manufacturing mishaps, but they don't report it!  So, it starts to look like there are far more issues than what truly exists. This is not meant to minimize owner's repair issues, but rather to keep our perspective with new and ongoing issues.  In this vein, there is always room for improvement by any manufacturer, and I do not think their QC is terrible as the thread is titled.  

NuCamp has reported a 1% warranty claim rate, which is a leader in the industry. QC is an ongoing process that nuCamp does take seriously.  I have spoken personally with the QC manager.  He reports that with the exception of making more campers each year, nothing has changed with the factory work process, so please stop speculating about their QC process.  It does not add value to the discussion.

Enough said.  I ask that you respect that nuCamp graciously provides us with this very worthwhile owner managed forum.  In addition, if you have ideas that would serve nuCamp well, please feel free to write an email to Help@nucamprv.com.  I know of no other company that will take your feedback and comments to heart like nuCamp.  

Verna

Verna, this forum provides valuable feedback for nuCamp as well. And if you read through the comments, you'll see that most of the QC speculation wasn't aimed at nuCamp. I've also praised them countless times here as well.

If we aren't allowed to speak our minds then what value is nuCamp or the community getting from this forum? If everything is just positive (and there's A LOT of positive posts here which is great) then what's the point? 

For example, the leaking Nautilus issue...if I hadn't read this forum about others having the same issue then I would've had a flooded trailer. Conversely, this forum gave me the confidence to go with nuCamp because of all of the praises people have given to the quality of their product and amazing warranty (something I've praised in this thread). 

An owner-created forum is a double-edged sword and nuCamp knows this. Show me any forum that's just full of positive feedback. They get to glean valuable insights both positive and negative and the risk is they might have some complaints. I love the nuCamp philosophy but I also feel like making these particular issues public will help soon-to-be owners know what to look for vs. being in the dark. 

We LOVE our camper. We fell in love with the German-made 400 6 years ago and have been on a mission to own one since then. After coming from owning a junky popup trailer and researching pretty extensively the competition this is like owning a BMW. But like a BMW, certain aspects of the trailer should be bulletproof. This is why I've been so shocked by the lack of QC on our camper. These are EXPENSIVE campers and along with that expense comes the expectation that it arrive to customers with minimal problems.

I didn't start this thread with the intention of crapping on nuCamp and I think if you read the entire thread that's clear. I started the thread because I want other soon-to-be owners made aware of issues that MIGHT come up. I appreciated the Nautilus issue heads up and I'm trying to pay it forward.

WpgTab

manyman297 said:

Verna said:

Dear members, 

I have read this thread several times and I appreciate how frustrating it is to have our highly regarded TaBs delivered to us with manufacturing issues.  Owners come to the forum to report issues and to find assistance from fellow owners and that's great.  However, keep in mind, of the issues you see reported here, there are many more owners who do not experience manufacturing mishaps, but they don't report it!  So, it starts to look like there are far more issues than what truly exists. This is not meant to minimize owner's repair issues, but rather to keep our perspective with new and ongoing issues.  In this vein, there is always room for improvement by any manufacturer, and I do not think their QC is terrible as the thread is titled.  

NuCamp has reported a 1% warranty claim rate, which is a leader in the industry. QC is an ongoing process that nuCamp does take seriously.  I have spoken personally with the QC manager.  He reports that with the exception of making more campers each year, nothing has changed with the factory work process, so please stop speculating about their QC process.  It does not add value to the discussion.

Enough said.  I ask that you respect that nuCamp graciously provides us with this very worthwhile owner managed forum.  In addition, if you have ideas that would serve nuCamp well, please feel free to write an email to Help@nucamprv.com.  I know of no other company that will take your feedback and comments to heart like nuCamp.  

Verna

Verna, this forum provides valuable feedback for nuCamp as well. And if you read through the comments, you'll see that most of the QC speculation wasn't aimed at nuCamp. I've also praised them countless times here as well.

If we aren't allowed to speak our minds then what value is nuCamp or the community getting from this forum? If everything is just positive (and there's A LOT of positive posts here which is great) then what's the point? 

For example, the leaking Nautilus issue...if I hadn't read this forum about others having the same issue then I would've had a flooded trailer. Conversely, this forum gave me the confidence to go with nuCamp because of all of the praises people have given to the quality of their product and amazing warranty (something I've praised in this thread). 

An owner-created forum is a double-edged sword and nuCamp knows this. Show me any forum that's just full of positive feedback. They get to glean valuable insights both positive and negative and the risk is they might have some complaints. I love the nuCamp philosophy but I also feel like making these particular issues public will help soon-to-be owners know what to look for vs. being in the dark. 

We LOVE our camper. We fell in love with the German-made 400 6 years ago and have been on a mission to own one since then. After coming from owning a junky popup trailer and researching pretty extensively the competition this is like owning a BMW. But like a BMW, certain aspects of the trailer should be bulletproof. This is why I've been so shocked by the lack of QC on our camper. These are EXPENSIVE campers and along with that expense comes the expectation that it arrive to customers with minimal problems.

I didn't start this thread with the intention of crapping on nuCamp and I think if you read the entire thread that's clear. I started the thread because I want other soon-to-be owners made aware of issues that MIGHT come up. I appreciated the Nautilus issue heads up and I'm trying to pay it forward.

I pick up my 2021 TAB 400 this weekend, I can say without uncertainty, that this thread is valuable and will help me when I go over my trailer. 

Denny16

Whilst nüCamp is doing a better job in construction a d QC than most US manufacturers, there is still room for more improvement as evidence by the issues that are slipping through the process.  That said, nüCamp offers and sells one of the best built camper/trailer on the market.  Their only real competition in the  US is Airstream.
cheers

manyman297

Denny16 said:

Whilst nüCamp is doing a better job in construction a d QC than most US manufacturers, there is still room for more improvement as evidence by the issues that are slipping through the process.  That said, nüCamp offers and sells one of the best built camper/trailer on the market.  Their only real competition in the  US is Airstream.
cheers

I agree. They've seemed to adopt the Wally Byam principle of "continuous improvement" for the most part. I like how they actually implement customer feedback into future models too. And like I said before, their warranty department is great and has been the most frictionless interaction with getting problems fixed I've ever dealt with.

Sharon_is_SAM

@manyman297  -  I don’t see anywhere in Verna’s comments that you are not permitted to “speak your mind”.  She articulated that sharing defects and necessary repairs is part of our forum.  Certainly plenty of negatives have been shared in many discussion threads throughout the forum.  The issue is the broadcasted assumption that nuCamp’s QC process is inadequate, failed, “terrible”.  I don’t think any manufacturer has a perfect record.  Please read the part again about how limited the warranty claims remain.  In addition, nuCamp does not routinely read this forum, so owners should always contact nuCamp and keep them in the loop as I believe you have done.