Moving Battery Inside

SLJ

Moving the battery from the tongue box to inside under the seat by the door.  First step is done, finding a clear path for the conduit for the battery lines and fishing it through. 

SLJ

Next will be installing a battery box for a larger battery with vents out to the underside of the T@B and a box on the back wall of the tongue box for the connections.

Sharon_is_SAM

@SLJ - what trailer model and year do you have?

SLJ

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@SLJ - what trailer model and year do you have?

2021 T@B 320 S Boondock

Denny16

If your batteries are normal lead acid type battereis, they need to stay in the tub, vented to the outside.  If you have AGM sealed battereis or Lithium, you can move them safely, lithium especially to get it in from extreme cold.  The question is, do you have room in the under bench seat compartment to hold the battereis and battery switch, which should get moved with the battereis.
cheers

SLJ

Denny16 said:

If your batteries are normal lead acid type battereis, they need to stay in the tub, vented to the outside.  If you have AGM sealed battereis or Lithium, you can move them safely, lithium especially to get it in from extreme cold.  The question is, do you have room in the under bench seat compartment to hold the battereis and battery switch, which should get moved with the battereis.
cheers

They do not need to stay in the tub. If you build a box for the batteries that's vented to the outside they can be installed under the seat. I've had two motorhomes where the batteries were in a box under the inside steps that was sealed from the coach but vented to the outside. Access was by lifting a step inside. I would even vent AGMs as they can bulge and split. I have a deep cycle that will be installed and then replaced next time with an AGM.

ScottG

I've seen original Dutchman T@Bs with the wet cell battery installed inside under the floor of a cabinet. IIRC the battery box lid had a largish diameter flexible vent that ran out the sidewall.

Denny16

True enough, if you get or build an air tight, vented to the outside battery box, then you can put lead acid batts in a cabin area.  My original post was concerning the OP’s battery box shown, which is not suitable for use inside the cabin as shown.

—edited to remove unnecessary comment to OP, Verna T@B Forum Admin

SLJ

The main reason is to prevent theft. Ours will be left for a day or two at a time. Batteries are easily turned into cash. Propane tanks not so much. Secondary is to reduce tongue weight.

Verna

@SLC it sure sounds like you have done your homework. I hope you include photos, how to’s etc. for we on the forum who are interested. 

MadCityJack

SLJ said:

Next will be installing a battery box for a larger battery with vents out to the underside of the T@B and a box on the back wall of the tongue box for the connections.

@SLJ Seems an elegant solution.  Do you have any updates on this install?  I am considering putting two lithium batteries in the same place in my TAB 320.  I will include a Victron Smart Shunt inside as well.   I wonder what cable gauge you used in running wire to front tub.  Also, how did you terminate the two wires in front tub?    Once there it seems hooking up to existing leads would be relatively simple.  Any product details would be useful.  Thank you.  

rfuss928

This thread discusses the same topic.
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/133523#Comment_133523

MadCityJack

rfuss928 said:

This thread discusses the same topic.
https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/133523#Comment_133523

Thanks, @rfuss928,   I’m reading as much as I can find on the topic.  I am working up a specific plan and believe me I’m a TAB newbie.  I liked @SLJ’s approach because it simply involves bringing positive/negative leads from batteries now located under the passenger cushion compartment directly into the front tub.  It seems that approach doesn’t have to deal with tracing wires and developing a complex schematic.  I believe he ran the battery cable through conduit along the bottom of the trailer to a junction box in the tub.  This junction box essentially would now serve as the posts of the battery.  However, safely drilling a hole through the floor, finding a means of hangin conduit, mounting the junction box and finding the right terminals seems a bit daunting but conceptually simple.  Are there any specific concerns I am not appreciating?

SLJ

MadCityJack said:

SLJ said:

Next will be installing a battery box for a larger battery with vents out to the underside of the T@B and a box on the back wall of the tongue box for the connections.

@SLJ Seems an elegant solution.  Do you have any updates on this install?  I am considering putting two lithium batteries in the same place in my TAB 320.  I will include a Victron Smart Shunt inside as well.   I wonder what cable gauge you used in running wire to front tub.  Also, how did you terminate the two wires in front tub?    Once there it seems hooking up to existing leads would be relatively simple.  Any product details would be useful.  Thank you.  

I ran 8 ga. cable inside flexible conduit to the front and installed a junction box for all the connections in the front tub.

MadCityJack

@slj is the written information on your junction box to minimize shock due to the close quarters?   Do you recall what kind of terminals you used at the junction box?  Thanks for the info?

SLJ

There's two buss bars in there separated by a piece of PVC. Reminder is so it's not opened and the PVC is pulled out with battery voltage still on the buss bars.

mgreen2

A friend posted these on FB. He just had this done by NuCamp. They built the wood holder and put it on the drivers side in back of the converter and ran all cables from switch, solar plug etc. 

GatorEgg

SLJ said:

Moving the battery from the tongue box to inside under the seat by the door.  First step is done, finding a clear path for the conduit for the battery lines and fishing it through. 

But why?
Intentionally moving a large hazardous item/battery, whether LA, Lithium, etc into the living space when there’s a specifically designed for it outside?
Thats why modified trailers are ones to stay away from.

MadCityJack

@GatorEgg,
I think there are a few reasons folks are considering mounting their lithium batteries inside: 1) Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries have a much more stable chemistry than other lithium batteries and do not have to be vented/maintained, 2) Some companies, e.g., Battleborn, make a very sturdy housing for the battery cells, 3) Mounting them inside the tub increases the risk of theft relative to housing them inside the cabin, 4) Additional accessories, e.g., smart shunt, etc. are more environmentally vulnerable in the tub than inside the cabin, 5) Inside temperatures address some of the temperature charging concerns, although the batteries can be purchased with internal/external heaters, 6) Getting more than one 27 Group battery in the tub is a real challenge.  

Despite these arguments for mounting them inside, I am still on the fence with where to house my lithium batteries.  It seems simpler for one battery for sure, but for two, I would prefer a lockable outside housing for two batteries alongside a propane compliant container.  I am curious about what others think about your question.

AnOldUR

MadCityJack said:

.... I would prefer a lockable outside housing for two batteries alongside a propane compliant container.  I am curious about what others think about your question.

Maybe a 400 has enough additional space inside to make the difference, but with our 320 interior space is at a premium. If something can ride outside the cabin, that would be my choice.

MadCityJack

@AnOldUR,
Your point is well taken.  I really like your set up.  I know I have seen your post  before on the modification and would consider it as an option.  However, I would feel more comfortable with a way to deter theft without locking the box because of propane concerns.  

AnOldUR

@MadCityJack we travel with the propane turned off and the box unlocked. When camping and we're around the site the gas is on and the box unlocked. Any time the trailer is parked, but we leave the site the tank is shut off and the box locked. I could be wrong, but I believe the rules about not allowing a propane tank in a locked box is for when you're on the road or when the tank is turned on. Otherwise all of those locked tank exchanges in front of stores would be a violation.

edit to add that proper box ventilation is required

WayneW

The topic of locked propane access comes up here and on the T@G forum, as well as any other trailer forum I looked at. I dug up and read the “NFPA 1192, Standard on Recreational Vehicles” to see what it actually says. (If you want to go to sleep at night this would be a good pick). It states under the propane storage section:

“5.1.6.3 Valve Access Doors and Panels. Doors or panels providing access to valves shall not be equipped with locks or require tools to open.”

It doesn’t qualify whether the trailer is moving, parked, unattended or anything else. So it appears the compartment should not have locks, according to this document. I’m not making any judgements and I think it’s up to individuals to make their own decisions. I just wanted to see what is actually “policy.”

gulfarea

If you keep your T@B in a safe area like in your back yard I have a VERY loud alarm that goes off when anyone opens the cover or goes in the side door when I am parked somewhwer else. Art

AnOldUR

WayneW said:

It doesn’t qualify whether the trailer is moving, parked, unattended or anything else.

I searched for the NFPA standard, but without paying I could only find an older copy. What I got from it was that these are standards for new builds. "This standard shall apply to new recreational vehicles manufactured on or after..."

I couldn't find anything to suggest it applies to user modifications, additions or actual usage. Is it possible that this standard only meant for manufactures to follow while building a product to be sold to the public? This could explain why the specific details about usage are not part of the standard.

Regardless, safety is what we should be concerned with. Not wanting a locked storage container is probably to allow emergency workers to turn off the tank in the event of a crash or fire. Not locking your box with the gas on would serve this purpose.

Denny16

Yes, but a firefighter or other first responder, has no way of knowing if the gas valve is open or shut, without looking first.  A locked tank access area makes that hard to do.  

Cheers 

VictoriaP

Denny16 said:

Yes, but a firefighter or other first responder, has no way of knowing if the gas valve is open or shut, without looking first.  A locked tank access area makes that hard to do.  

Cheers 

Yep, and tanks can still fail when shut off. Had it happen in the late ‘90s with a horizontal permanent mount tank on a class C. Was loads of fun getting a call from my then father in law telling me the fire department had evacuated the neighborhood and wanted to talk to me. 

Denny16

Victoria, Evacuated the neighborhood!  What a great story…
Cheers

VictoriaP

@Denny16 All the best RV stories I have were from that rig…if by ‘best’, I mean, “those that left deep, long lasting mental trauma”. 

(No houses or vehicles were damaged in that incident, just had to apologize to a lot of grumpy people who were inconvenienced.)

Denny16

@VictoriaP, that is a s good a story as when I had traffic backed up on I-5 (which was then under construction and down to one lane each way) from Chula Vista to Imperial Beach/Mexican border area in SanDiego, when I jackknifed by Kenskill trailer many years ago…  :#
cheers

VictoriaP

@Denny16 Oh dear. I know that feeling too…a year or two before the propane incident, I got into a sway disaster with a boat trailer that lost a wheel on the transition from one freeway to another, which ended with me out of control across 5-6 lanes of traffic during rush hour. Ended up completely off to the side, jackknifed, having ‘sunk’ a Boston Whaler upside down on dry land. Somehow, no one hit me and the car was fine. The boat, not so much.

And that’s why I get so twitchy around here whenever the topic of tongue weight comes up. Sway is not something I want to mess with. Which actually ties back to the topic of moving the battery inside on a 320. I love the idea in theory. I do not love it when I look at the reduction in tongue weight. For those considering it, for safety in towing you need to make certain that moving your batteries inside doesn’t reduce your tongue weight below 10% of your loaded trailer weight. Likewise, this needs to be considered when swapping lead acid for much lighter lithiums.