Solar Generator

DanL

Hello Everyone.     I am just learning about these “solar generators” (power packs) such as Bluetti and Jackery.   I am wondering if I can use one of these to charge my battery when shore power is not available.    I am thinking I could plug my 30 amp cord into the power pack using a 15 amp adapter and charge my battery.    I would do this to avoid using my noisy gas/propane generator.    Does anyone know if this would work to charge my battery or would the solar generator just act as an external power source and just power what ever happens to be running in the trailer at the time?     I know these units are expensive, but I would be willing to spend the money if it can extend my boondocking time without having to use a gas/propane generator.    THANKS!

ChrisFix

@DanL
If you connect the 'solar generator' inverter outlet(s) to your T@B's shore power, then it will be delivering 120V AC power to the T@B, which would enable running everything in your camper...and that includes the battery charger in the wire center of the T@B (the WFCO panel).
The battery charger is automatic, so if needed, it would begin to recharge the T@B's batteries in this configuration.  However, it's not a very efficient way to recharge the T@B's battery.
And heavy loads like a microwave, electric Alde settings, and air conditioning might not work due to the size of the power pack's inverter - but also will exhaust the battery pretty quickly.

Grumpy_G

Full disclosure: I hate the term "solar generator" with a passion. These things are a basically a battery and inverter in sleek packaging. The only time solar comes into the picture is if you hook solar panels to it. 
If you're solely looking to extend 12V boon docking time you could just buy an additional battery and either install it in the trailer or simply put it into a battery box and connect it to the trailer through the solar charge port or even the 7 pin connector. Converting 12V to 120V AC and then back to 12V through the converter is very inefficient (as already pointed out). Plus it's less money if it gets pinched. 

pthomas745

Just buy a solar panel, a controller, and a set of battery clamps and you can charge your trailer battery as long as it can see the sun.  Eliminate the "middle man". 

CharlieRN

As others have already pointed out, a "solar generator" is nothing more than a bundle with panels, controller, battery and inverter. If you are looking to simply top up your storage battery, then as @pthomas745 suggests, all you need is a solar panel, controller and cables, a significantly less costly - and more efficient - alternative than a solar generator.

I purchased this solar suitcase (panels with adjustable stands, controller and cables in a padded carrying case) to use to augment my factory solar. I have not used it extensively but am pleased with its performance so far. There are a number of alternatives however, some more costly and some less.

DanL

Thanks for all the comments.    I do the bulk of my camping on Vancouver Island and find that 95% of the time there is very little to no direct sun on the campsite due to the huge trees.   As a result, solar panels get very little sunlight.     My thought is to charge the unit at home through a wall plug and take it with me to charge the trailer battery.    Even if it just gives me one or two charges during a trip it would be beneficial.     I am just wondering if it would charge my battery.

Verna

I’ve used my Jackery 500 to power my ARB fridge/freezer when boondocking in 90*+ last month, and it worked for the two days with a 100 watt solar panel connected to it during the day. I bought it for the ARB and it is serving it’s purpose. I need to get the time to add the SAE plugs to the front tub but I’ll still use the Jackery when needed. 

With the ARB, the Jackery 500 only lasted one night, went down to 15% from 100% (and then I connected the solar panel to it). This makes me question whether this type of a battery setup would be strong enough to recharge T@B batteries. Yes, the ARB was running more than normal, but I thought the Jackery’s power would be enough for two days/nights without having to recharging the Jackery. I am a bit disappointed, but it will still work well for the ARB while sightseeing or shopping, so it will be serving the original purpose. 

@DanL, I think your best bet would be to purchase at least a 100 watt solar panel kit with a 20’ extension cord so you can reach the sun from a shaded campsite. That has always worked well for me in the past. (I have a 200 watt portable kit.). You will need to reassess your battery, as finances allow. Lithium is still expensive, but two 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series are less than half the lithium cost and will work wonders for your boondocking experiences. Those would last you 4 to 6 years, and maybe lithium batteries will continue going down in price and they will be affordable at that time. 

ChrisFix

DanL said:

Thanks for all the comments.    I do the bulk of my camping on Vancouver Island and find that 95% of the time there is very little to no direct sun on the campsite due to the huge trees.   As a result, solar panels get very little sunlight.     My thought is to charge the unit at home through a wall plug and take it with me to charge the trailer battery.    Even if it just gives me one or two charges during a trip it would be beneficial.     I am just wondering if it would charge my battery.

It will charge your batteries, as mentioned above, by using the charger in the WFCO if you are connecting the solar generator to the T@B's shore power.

Da_Birds

I have the same dilemma. I just can't rely on having good sun as most of the sites we stay in are wooded. Besides, we seem to bring clouds and rain with us wherever we go! I also don't want to be chasing the sun all day with a suitcase panel although I think this would be easier with a "solar generator" (I don't like that term either) because I wouldn't need to worry about cord lengths etc.. I at least have the option to move my "solar generator" and panel literally anywhere to catch some good sun if needed.

So I've been thinking about using a Bluetti in the same manner. I am also considering switching to a lithium battery like Battle Born. However I like the "solar generator" option better because I at least have uses for it other than just for camping so that does help justify the cost.

I don't see us boondocking for much more than 2 nights and my 130AH flooded battery got us through a 2 night trip. But we really needed to be conscious of the power we used. I wouldn't expect to run anything that uses 120V AC boondocking, although it would be nice to have that option should the need arise. I really just want to be able to use the 12V system for a couple of nights mostly worry free.

The other option I'm considering is just getting another 130AH flooded battery. I really don't want to make this a permanent addition as there is no need to add that extra weight and waste the space since we have electric hookups the majority of our trips. So the thought was I could just swap out the battery.  However, now I am intrigued by the option to use the solar port to connect a second battery and will be looking into that for sure! Seems to be a much cheaper and easier temporary solution to get a little extra 12V power on our short boondocking trips. I'd still be interested to hear about anyone's experience using a "solar generator" though.

CrabTab

A good amount of our (over 100) nights in our T@B have been dry camping. Combined with a home power grid that we don't feel is weather hardened enough, I've spent a good deal of time/money playing with generating and storing power.

After some experimentation, our first move with the T@B was to get a bigger battery that would get us through 2 nights without recharge - a weekend. Then we went after longer stay solutions...

The easiest plug and play solution is a gas generator. I understand the negatives (sound, dealing with fuel, etc.). We carry a small one to cover multiple rain or tree canopy days in one spot on long voyages. We tend to wander around, not sure where we'll find cool things to do. It stays home when we plan a trip and schedule enough long drive days or shore power nights between dry camping times.

Solar is fun to play with. We have both rooftop and suitcase panels now to cover a variety of scenarios. Solar, of course, it isn't always reliable.  I've recently overbuilt our solar capacity to try and compensate for cloudy days. We have some testing to do before I can judge our progress '...On the road again. Can't wait to get on the road again...' (thanks Willie)

We have a portable power station ('solar generator') too. We use it in the back of our TV to keep a  Dometic fridge/freezer working. You have to go big to last several days though, as @Verna said.

There is a real premium you're paying to use a portable power station as a back up power source for your trailer with all the station's built in electronics. I think it would be much cheaper to just get an additional battery. Install a battery isolator switch. When your main power source is getting low, turn the switch over to the back up. This will keep the main battery (or bank of batteries) from further discharge when you are using the secondary source. If the secondary battery is the same chemistry and installed in the trailer you can use the trailer to recharge each battery bank separately when on shore power or driving. If you keep the backup outside the trailer, a port connector (SAE or Anderson powerpole) will work fine to get the electrons in the trailer. I DO think the isolator switch an important feature either way.

Just sharing some of what we have experienced....

Edit: If you decide to go the portable power station route, Goal Zero will be 20% off for members at REI  during their Labor Day sale starting 8/27.

Marceline

DanL said:

Thanks for all the comments.    I do the bulk of my camping on Vancouver Island and find that 95% of the time there is very little to no direct sun on the campsite due to the huge trees.   As a result, solar panels get very little sunlight.     My thought is to charge the unit at home through a wall plug and take it with me to charge the trailer battery.    Even if it just gives me one or two charges during a trip it would be beneficial.     I am just wondering if it would charge my battery.

I think that a 12v lithium drop in replacement battery (100aH+) j would be a better use of your money. And in light of the solar constraints maybe a gas or propane generator. 

AnOldUR

CrabTab said:

When your main power source is getting low, turn the switch over to the back up. This will keep the main battery (or bank of batteries) from further discharge when you are using the secondary source

The isolating switch is gaining popularity. This raised another question. I've read that when using more than one battery they should be the same age or the older one could bring the life of the new one down. The battery isolating switch would prevent this, but you'd end up with two batteries at different degrees of use that should not then be used in parallel.

Doesn't this also mean that you could only be charging one battery at a time? So, you charge both batteries separately, then only use one as a backup when the first gets low? It's kind of like the reserve position on a motorcycle gas petcock valve. The reason for those was that motorcycle's didn't have gas gauges and it was a way to let you know it was time to get gas. That's not the case here. We are already monitoring our batteries to prevent total discharge. With that in mind, it makes more sense to me to keep both batteries at an equal level of charge, extending the amp hours rather than relying on a "reserve".

I'm thinking the advantage may be that batteries are sometimes rated by the number of cycles they can be discharged and recharged. Keeping one battery fully charged and not used would increase it's life.  But I'm not sure the numbers would work when considering a two battery system. Even if they did, I'd rather not have to monitor for when it's time to switch over and then again for when the second battery is low. If I'm not gaining amp hours it's an unnecessary step. (Or do some isolating switches automatically go to the second battery at a certain level of discharge?)

I'm rambling again. Sorry.

ScottG

I guess I'm a relative simpleton when it comes to camping tech. Then again, I thought camping was supposed to be a relatively simple pastime. As such, I carry a single group 31 wet-cell battery on the camper, and employ two of the simpler suggestions mentioned above: a 100W solar panel with 40' of tether, and--in case things really get hairy--an external spare battery that can be easily hooked up and seamlessly switched. 

The system is also modular to increase flexibility. The solar can be integrated with the trailer or used as a standalone system, and the spare battery can be relocated as needed for external charging from solar, a smart-charger, or even my tow vehicle as I drive around in search of adventures.

@DanL, regardless of what you end up doing, I applaud your effort to limit the use of a gas generator. I don't want to listen to a generator on my own campsite, and I sure as heck don't want to listen to yours next door, no matter how "quiet" the manufacturer tells you it is.  ;-)  

CrabTab

I'll do my best to answer the confusion/questions created by me comment @AnOldUR.

Battery switches have been common in marine applications for a long time. They are used as a means of protecting your staring battery from the 'house' battery (It is hard to get a jump when your fishing offshore).A singular bank, in series (6V) or parallel (12V). isn't the place to use a switch.

Also, when using more than one battery chained in a bank, like you do, they are ideally they same chemistry, rated output and age. 

As I interpreted the discussion, some of the posters  were pondering using a second supplemental power source (battery) that would be attached to the trailer on occasion. My suggestion for a switch would allow them to not further draw down the main power source (potentially damaging those batteries) when they connected a secondary battery to extend boondocking time without a recharge. 

Just for some additional thought, the switches usually have three positions. Bank one, bank two or both. In a boat we've always switched to 'both' after firing the engine from the staring battery and began the run for shore to charge both battery banks. In the scenario I mentioned earlier in the discussion, I was considering the switch as a protective device, not really as a means to recharge the supplemental battery.

CrabTab

In my first post in this discussion I tried to share that we have deployed several methods of generating and storing energy during extended dry camping experiences. Not knowing everyone else's needs, I thought it might spur creative thought.

We've run in to folks that need to keep medicine (like insulin) chilled, run CPAPs at night, recharge an oxygen concentrator, etc. just to be 'out there'. Heck, they may require the use of a generator for a few hours a day to keep batteries running at night.

It's OK, they can camp next to us. We won't mind. The important thing is they're getting a  chance to be outside too.

AnOldUR

@CrabTab that makes more sense than what I originally thought you were saying. My mistake. I can see the desire to have an isolating switch between the TV and trailer batteries. As suggested here, if I'm parked and hitched for any length of time, I unplug the 7-way, but a switch or relay would make that easier. And as you point out, there may be situations where someone may want to isolate other power sources. Thanks for clarifying. 

ScottG

FWIW, the switch @CrabTab describes is exactly what I installed to switch between (or combine) my two batteries. It's pretty slick--if you cycle through the "1+2" position there's no power interruption so no need to relight the fridge, reset the clock, etc.

My spare battery is actually my old  group 27 house battery. It was showing its age but was still marginally serviceable when I opted to replace it this year after five seasons. I would not likely run the two batteries in parallel since the size, age, and the condition of each is quite different.

With this configuration the converter will charge whichever battery is selected. My solar suitcase is ordinarily hooked to the house battery, but I could reconfigure it easily to charge the spare using alligator clips (another benefit of a modular system).  

ScottG

CrabTab said:

...

We've run in to folks that need to keep medicine (like insulin) chilled, run CPAPs at night, recharge an oxygen concentratr, etc. just to be 'out there'. Heck, they may require the use of a generator for a few hours a day to keep batteries running at night.

It's OK, they can camp next to us. We won't mind. The important thing is they're getting a  chance to be outside too.

Okay, I'm dutifully chastised...  :-)  

Even though I loath generators, I'm much more tolerant if someone has a legitimate physical need. However, I strongly suspect that this is not the case with the vast majority of those who fire up their generators daily for 30-60 minutes during both breakfast and happy hour. This is not nearly long enough to completely charge a battery, and is almost certainly about needing a Kurig, electric griddle, or microwave in order to prepare a meal.

I would expect people who are legitimately charging their house batteries to do so during the day when the campground is typically less occupied.

But of course you never know someone's specific situation, so I wave to my campground neighbors and reserve my grumbling and discontent for anonymous online forums.  ;-) 

AnOldUR

ScottG said:

But of course you never know someone's specific situation, so I wave to my campground neighbors and reserve my grumbling and discontent for anonymous online forums.  ;-) 

 Same here. But does this mean I shouldn't be <<complaining>> to my wife either?  

<<removed inappropriate word and replaced with an appropriate word>>. Verna, T@B Admin

edit:
 I apologize if I offended anyone. I wouldn’t have guessed that to be a banned word. Time to review the forum policies. Again, sorry!

ScottG

Oh, wife is okay. Trust me, she hears my unfiltered opinion when the gennies come on. (Though I suspect she would rather not!)  ;-)

Ratkity

Just my 2 cents (what's that with inflation? 2 million?)... batteries take an overnight constant charge to get to 95% without a load. The last 15% (or 5-10 if you are lucky), is like stuffing the last of your poofy sleeping bag into the the bag it came in. You'll never get a full charge in 4.5 hours of optimal sun with an appropriate solar panel. It DOES do many things that have been mentioned.

You also cannot charge a battery from 50% to 100% with 8 hours of driving, even with an alternator. Battery physics doesn't change. Now, that said, how does lithium charge? I have not looked up this information.

Verna and I both have an ARB cooler, although I think hers is bigger and better insulated. Other people run cpaps or other medical equipment. I like the particular object to be charged or run constantly, rather than the entire T@B battery under load or phantom load. 

Remember, solar's little secret is that the hotter the temperature is outside, the less efficient your panels are in the full sun; efficiency can go all the way down to 0.1%. 

I love solar, but to be green, it costs more green (money). I love the compromises people have applied to their T@Bs (isolation switches, extra batteries). T@B people are so innovative! I love the tried and true marine tech being applied to campers. Keep up the great work!!

ScottG

Good points, @Ratkity. I think many don't really understand the physics of battery charging, or the limitations of various charging systems. 

To an extent I count myself among that group. However, after seven seasons, I know what works for my application and I have contingency plans if something doesn't work. (One of which is to camp WITHOUT POWER--quelle horreur! Fortunately, that has yet to happen...)

I know I am a dying breed here, but I still appreciate the virtues of my 3-way fridge. The vast majority of power concerns seem to revolve around keeping things cold. My sense is that as the propane cooling option goes the way of the dodo, fretting over amp-hours is going to continue to increase.

Verna

@ScottG, I loved my 3-way fridge in my 2014 T@B with the ability to use propane all winter when off grid. But, when that 3-way option was no longer offered in my 400 and now my new 320, I had to adapt. Yes, watching amp hours is no longer an option, but a requirement. My desire to attach as many watts of solar panels as will fit on my 320 has made the amp watching so much simpler.  More solar and higher quality batteries with more storage capacity is the way of the future if the use of propane in our campers is needed less and less. 

Denny16

I found on my last camping trip, that the factory 193-watt solar kept the battery charged whilst parked in partial shade (panel running at 50-60% capacity) after running the two way fridge, lights and fan at night.  By mid day battery charged back up to 90%.  Average overnight discharge was only around 30-35% of our battery.  Yes, you need to watch your power consumption, but the system works.  

We are running a 200-amp AGM battery in a TaB400.  So a 100 watt lithium in a TaB320 should give similar performance.
cheers

Ratkity

I love all the things people are doing while watching amp hours. I still have to do that with my non-T@B mini toy hauler (just as long as a T@B, but 11 ft tall). It comes with a propane/electric option frig. I've run the furnace in mid-winter and kept the frig cool. I also warm the bed with a trucker's style electric blanket (turns off after 45 minutes). If I want to watch a movie or catch up on news, I use my laptop and hot spot. If no cell service, it's okay. My Kindle or real books are always relaxing as well as a little guitar plinking. 

Yes, I miss my 2015 T@B horribly, but I had other needs (keep Harley inside in winter like a garage, go places with Harley); however, it's become a service doggo storage and bed area. He doesn't get on furniture or beds unless he's indicating something is wrong with me. Nothing like 85 lbs of fur and doggo breath to wake you up and tell Rocket that I was just napping (and snoring), and nothing is wrong. hehe. 

Verna

@Ratkity, I sure have missed your humor and insights!  Welcome back. 

SusanD

@DanL Hi Dan, thought I'd give you my thoughts having just finished 5 days at Jordan River on Van Isl.  I switched to a Battle Born Lithium battery and have a Jackery 1000 with one solar panel.  Fortunately it was a mostly sunny stretch and the camping spot had some sun, despite all the trees here.  I used the camper lights infrequently and just for a few minutes (I have 2 goal Zero foldable  lights), the water pump a little, we showered once a day but otherwise, no heat, no fridge, no hot water, all electronics were recharged off the Jackery and I was able to maintain power at around 13.3V. Thoroughly pleased!  I don't have an ARB cooler but an old one like that and I think that was the key.  I started it at home cool, added ice packs and drove with it plugged into the cigarette lighter and it stayed reasonably cool.  It was perfect. I suddenly feel like I can camp - maybe not how I expected to but in a way that really works.  The Jackery solar panel on the other hand....  So far I can only see it used in an emergency. Sorry for this being so long but I sense that the 2 of us are in pretty similar situations with all these darn trees and how we like to camp.

pthomas745

@SusanD As you camp more, you should become more familiar with your trailer electrical use.  It literally sips power.  The Led lights hardly use any power at all.  Before the pump would use any power worth noting...you would be out of water.  You spent thousands on special batteries and solar,  and there is no reason to huddle in the dark.  I just have a stock battery and a 100 watt panel, and I don't hesitate to use anything in the trailer.  As long as I can monitor and watch the weather so I know how the sun might be the next day, I'm comfortable using my trailer as designed. 

This does take some time, but here is what helped me:  Jenn Grover's blog and her electrical use spreadsheet.

https://jenngrover.com/power-consumption/

SusanD

@pthomas745 This one is for you. Second to last night on the road. Lights on, fridge on! (And yes, I am working tonight... payment for so much time off.) 

pthomas745

Thanks for the best laugh of the day!  And, good for you.  The more you play and work in the trailer, the more you will find how nice and comfy it can be.

DanL

Thanks for everyone’s comments and insights.    Battery/electrical questions always get lots of reaction.     Now I just need to do some more research and decide what to do.    Happy camping.