Overheating wheel on my 2015 T@b

fstop32

I've got the driver side wheel getting hot within a 20 mile window when I tow...like 425 degrees hot.
I've had axle bearing checked and repacked probably 3 months ago and about a month later I had the brakes rebuilt (same place, they saw worn pads when they did the bearings).  I took it back to them and they "worked on it" and when I towed it home via a 20 mile+ route the temps felt fine.  We were planning to head to KY tomorrow so I took it for one more test tow and driver side wheel got above 400 degrees (I had previously purchased an infrared temp gauge).  I got it back to the house and pulled the wheel and when I spin the drum (with gloves on!) the drum spins freely.  I was expecting it to be dragging a bit, especially being hot.  I'm also hearing an audible click sound pretty much once per revolution, like it's happening at the same spot in the revolution.  Now I'm beginning to wonder if it is more to do with the axle/bearings.
Any ideas out there?  Is is possible to disconnect the electric trailer brakes to get a test on whether it is the brakes or the bearings?

fstop32

Ok, I guess I've been cancelled...   This might be the shortest post on the forum...ScottG just go ahead and strike this one from the database.
I figured out a way to cut the power from the brake controller to the camper and a test tow resulted in normal temps for the camper hubs/drums.  Therefore it must be the driver side brake that was not disengaging properly and not a deeper problem with bearings.  My trip is still on!

tabiphile

Hmmm....what? Are you planning to tow without brakes? That would not be a good idea. If you have everything properly connected, hook up and tow, does the wheel get hot? 
Clicking suggests a bearing race but it could also come from a brake problem. 
If that were my rig, I would be pulling the wheel to find out what is wrong. 

ScottG

Interesting. Most "hot hub" discussions invariably focus on bearings, but a grabbing or dragging brake could certainly cause the same problem. The free-spinning but clicking hub is certainly an odd symptom.

When you figure out exactly what the problem is, please report back--there's not a lot here about troubleshooting and repairing electric brake problems.

peterjoce400

Our 2019 400 overheated on the driver's side this summer for the first time with about 8000 km on annually serviced brakes and bearings.  Trailer shop took the wheel apart and cleaned up and lubricated, saying all was really good.  On a further run down island same overheat and definitely not the bearings..  Next step was to order new brakes and drums doing both sides to maintain same in service (very expensive).  The axle is a 4400 lbs so the drums and brakes were not off the shelf parts replacement and took awhile to ship up from the states. The guy at the trailer shop really is perplexed as he thought the old units had lots of service life left in them ( I even took the old units home if anyone on Vancouver Island needs them).   Next run up island and back and still getting hot brake on the drivers side.  Pull apart and all looks perfect in there.  Now we have installed a new brake controller but with winter coming in won't be able to monitor till spring.  One thing I learnt on the web was that as there is only the wire feeding the brakes it goes to one side and then crosses over on the axle to the other side but a voltage test showed equal voltages moving along.  Costs are adding up and somewhat frustrating.  About the heat....Dexter website says the brakes can heat pretty high so I'm thinking just accept some heat as long as there is no smoke!

manyman297

Our brand new 2021 400 BD had a hot passenger side drum brake. I noticed just by chance as I was pulled over to the side of the road checking if our door was locked. Just smelled burning brakes. After a bit of research I just kept adjusting the drum and got it just right and the brakes felt way better too. 

fstop32

Hot brake update:  I finally found the time to pull the driver side hub off and found what is probably causing my heating issue.  It would appear that the mechanic (not I) didn't know his right hand from his left...please correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will  ) but the pic below is of the driver side brake assembly which would be considered the "left hand" side.  There are several clues here that what was installed on this side is the assembly intended for the "right hand" side (passenger side).  The first clue is the tag on the backing plate...pretty sure (RH) stands for "right hand" and not "really hot", though I guess that might be appropriate.  Second clue is the the "short primary shoe" should be facing the front of the camper, as shown here it is facing (more or less) the rear of the camper.

On another note, no mention about the condition of the drums was made to me by the business who did the work.  In the 3rd pic you can see the wear on the inside where the electro magnet contacts the drum has all but reached the recessed lug heads.  I'm guessing I should probably replace these drums when all this gets fixed...comments?

P.S.  I did not find any play in the bearings as mounted or any discoloration from heat on closer inspection.

Grumpy_G

Yes that's the wrong assembly for the driver side. I wouldn't worry about the drum (yet), the magnet doesn't have friction material like brake pads/shoes have and doesn't press hard against the surface either. 

fstop32

@Grumpy_G, since I just had these brakes put on 80 miles ago I'm assuming the previous brake set (previous owner) was the culprit for the metal wear to the drum.  I'm actually surprised the electro magnet would cause that much wear on the surface of the drum. 
I guess I was concerned that the irregular surface of the drum might affect what appears to be a new magnet (it looks like they replaced the whole assembly, not just put on new pads).  I don't know if the irregular surface would result in a drop of magnetic attraction and possibly a weaker application of the brakes or not.  Seems obvious the worn surface of the drum will over time wear the surface of the magnet but perhaps that wear would not be significant before I'd need to be replacing the hub anyway...???



 

Grumpy_G

Looks worse than what I could tell from the earlier picture, so might not be a bad idea to replace the hub/drum as well. Did you check if the other side has the correct brake ? How does the hub/drum look there ? 

N7SHG_Ham

If you want some screwed up, hire someone! That is pretty shoddy work if it was by an actual shop you paid good money to.

fstop32

@Grumpy_G, I haven't pulled the other side off yet but I've ordered the jack stands I'll need to do it.  I should have the other side pulled down by this time next week, updates will follow.
@N7SHG_Ham, I was hoping/expecting that the job would be done properly since trailer work is one of their active profit centers.  The first time it overheated they had me bring it back for their "brake guy" to look at it.  That was the clue that the work had been done by the "not a brake guy", so I gave them a chance to properly look at it and make any necessary repairs.  Had the "brake guy" taken a few minutes to pull a hub the problem should/would have been quickly obvious.   I used to do this kind of work putting myself through college a lifetime ago but was hoping to spare my knees now that I'm in my "prime'   I'll be doing it myself going forward.  I've contacted the shop manager but he has yet to get back in touch.  I don't want them working on it even if they offer to fix it, I just wanted them to know what kind of work they are producing before someone has a serious accident because of it.

N7SHG_Ham

@fstop32 I hear you. I am north of 60 myself now and just don't like to tackle stuff I would of 40 years ago, mostly because I was too poor to hire it out. Now that I have means to hire out I find I am disappointed more often than not. I still do all my own oil changes and minor maintenance and will likely do my Tab hubs next time, last time I hired it out to what should of been a reputable shop due to short on time and having to work outside in the driveway, but stories like yours make me want to lay eyes on what is inside the hub.

Mickerly

I've been down a similar road. All that damage and heat is from the magnet rubbing the drum. Things to think about:

First, yes, replace the drum/hub assembly because the chewed up surface will quickly destroy the new magnet. There is a small spring that pushes the magnet against the inside of the drum. The surface should be nice and smooth. Since the dealership messed this up, maybe they would be interested in helping you out with a drum and a left brake?

Second, I know the only warn part on the backing plate is the magnet, but you need a complete, new left brake. This may be an opportunity for an upgrade. Look for a Dexter parts place. They have a self adjusting brake assemblies that are a bolt on replacement. No more adjusting brakes. Just a thought.

Third, drop NuCamp a line. They can't squeeze their dealerships too hard because everyone is having labor issues these days, but they should know there are dealerships with issues.

I'm north of sixty also, but this is why I try to do as much myself as I can. There is something about knowing things work correctly. Good luck.

fstop32

@Mickerly, I'm definitely going to replace the drums.  The jack stands came today so I should know what the right side looks like soon.  
Do you see any reason why I shouldn't use the parts they installed?  The magnet has only minor wear, 80 miles worth of driving.

Mickerly

Not at all. The brake was installed backwards. So, the magnet bound up the first time you tried to apply the brakes. It should have pulled the shoes in. 

The new hub/brake drum will come with new bearings and races. If only the one side was getting hot, the other side should be fine. A new magnet and you should be back in business.

Grease the new bearings.

fstop32

@Mickerly, I pulled the passenger side and it has the Left Hand brake assembly installed there    
Neither magnet shows much wear at all.  (left side magnet top pic/right side bottom pic) .  
If I'm going to put new drums on do you still feel the magnet(s) are damaged enough that they should also be replaced?

Mickerly

You could try sanding them smoother. There is a couple of things at play. Let me explain how the brake works so you can make an informed decision.

The brake works by having the wire coil (the magnet) 'close' to the inside of the hub. There is actually a small spring behind the coil pushing it against the hub. When the brakes are 'applied' electricity turns the coil into a magnet. As it sticks to the inside of the hub, it's pulled in the direction of rotation, pushing the shoes against the inside of the drum mechanically. Since you have yours apart, you can push the coil as if the wheel is turning (backwards in your case) to see the shoes move out.

By installing the brakes backwards, the coils moved in a direction they aren't designed as you towed the trailer. When you applied the brakes they pulled even father. This caused the coils to bind and grind up the surface of the coil and the inside of the hub. One side was worse than the other, but both sides have 'damage'.

So, the magnet/coils are making friction all the time against the inside of the hub while you are going down the road, even with perfectly new brakes. Are yours  making more friction than a smooth inside of the hub and a smooth coil? Absolutely. This means more heat and faster wear and perhaps a 1 or 2 mpg bite into your gas mileage. Is it rough enough to apply the brakes just from the pressure from the small spring on the back of the coil as you tow the trailer? No one knows until you pull the trailer.

10 inch drum/hub assemble with bearings are $154 each for Dexter parts on etrailer.com. Third party parts are less and probably just as good. The electromagnet coils are about $40 each. So, your looking at $350ish if you do the repair with new parts yourself. Look for a local trailer place, utility trailer not RV. They will have parts for less or could do the work for you for less than an RV place. You could use your old parts. A repair shop you can trust would not do this for you. You are out only the time, assuming you will replace with new brakes in a year or so depending on how much you tow the trailer. They will wear faster than a smooth surface. Keep a close eye on things if you choose this route.

Dutch061

I would call the General Manager and/or the Service Manager and share this with them. Then I would ask that since their work done improperly has damaged the new magnets, ask for them for free. Then I would ask that they give you 1 free hub and drum if you buy the other one. Keep in mind the pricing you can get the drum for so if they try to jack the price to cover the cost of 2 that you can correct them.

If they refuse, post a web review with details and pictures on Google, Yelp, and any other place you can find.

Glad you found this before you left on a trip. As others have already said, there is a reason I don't let people work on my stuff and this is a prime example as to why.

P.S. I would also share the name of the facility with those on this forum, especially if they aren't willing to help make it right. 

Brad

fstop32

@Mickerly, thank you for the electric trailer brake lesson, that confirmed what I was putting together in my head.  I appreciate the helpful info.  Would you happen to know if electric brake drums can have the surface where the magnet contacts turned down back to a flat smooth surface?
I actually used a local co-op that works on all sorts of farm trailers with electric brakes, I figured they'd know what they were doing...    
This little T@b o' mine just keeps giving me new issues.  Apparently when it was put together at the factory they either made the camper body too wide and/or they secured it to the frame where it hung over on the driver side.  In order to make the tire not rub the inner wheel well they installed a drum with longer lug bolts and used a 3/4" spacer ring to set the driver side wheel out farther.  So now changing the drum/hub means I'll have to remove the standard lug bolts from the new driver side drum and press in longer ones.  Nothing seems simple anymore 

Mickerly

I live in the DFW area and haven't found a place yet. Lots of places to buy parts. I'd love to have the old drums turned. When I did mine I was a little short on time. So, I picked up backing plates with complete brakes and two hubs. I figured I could rebuild the old brakes and turn the drums and make a swap when I needed. 7 Months later and they aren't turned. My sister has a ranch in the country. I'll take them to her. I'm sure outside the city someone knows how to fix stuff.

You brakes are two different colors. That guy got hot enough to burn off the finish.

So, it sounds like either the trailer cabin is off set on the trailer or the axil isn't centered. I would have someone that works on utility trailers look at it. The spacer is a cheesy way to fix a miss alignment.

fstop32

@Mickerly, based on my measurements the axle is only 1/4" off dead center, so only 1/8" movement back to the right to be dead on.  Too bad there's no good way to shift the axle.  The camper cabin is a full 3/4" offset to the driver side which is creating the problem.  If I ever have to separate the cabin from the trailer frame I will most certainly correct the problem then.  In the meantime I guess I'll stick with having to install longer lugs whenever I change the hubs.
That drum hit 425 degrees, it might have gotten even hotter by the time I got it back to my house.  I'm still trying to find out if the magnet face of the drum is safe to turn smooth.  Like you, I'd like to rebuild that set for the next time I need hubs.

fstop32

Brief update: The co-op where I had the brake job done quickly offered to refund me the labor cost of the job.  I think they might have done more but the parts were not worn so I'm using them.  Seemed fair to me, I wanted management to know what kind of work was done and I wasn't looking for "pain and suffering".  The refund will go toward the new hubs/drums.

Mickerly

That's a fair resolution. Have a good day.

fstop32

@Mickerly, update: the info coming in recently says you can turn that inside face of the drum where the magnet makes contact.  However, the depth of available metal is limited by the lug heads.  So in my case while the shoe face of the drums look good I can't smooth the magnet face by turning because one or more grooves are at/below the lug head...I had to scrap my old drums.

manyman297

@fstop32
Check out this video playlist below. A guy on FB (he posts here too) documented his repair process when he found out the factory had mounted the body of the camper offset from the frame (like how you describe yours). While his fix was fairly straightforward he warned against using spacers because both wheels need to be equidistant from the receiver. Otherwise you get “crabbing” (I think that’s the term) since you’re pulling both wheels at uneven forces. 

Do you have uneven tire wear?

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkvn7Q21IZaLxYYZz5gmRQoEZia2HOEz5

Denny16

If my trailer had this offset issue from the factory, I would be contacting nüCamp to get it fixed on their nickel.  As pointed out, using a wheel spacer on one side, is not going to allow the trailer to tow correctly, and it will want to pull to one side, as the wheel forces in relation to the towing point (tongue) are no longer centered.

If this was purchased as a used trailer, than who know when and how the body and frame were off set?
cheers

fstop32

@manyman297 and @Denny16, that is a crabby situation.  I appreciate the heads up on it though.
When I saw the spacer I knew something wasn't kosher but I didn't think about the geometry being off in the towing.  I'm not sure about uneven tire wear because I had a ply separate a couple of weeks ago and have sense had new tires mounted so I don't have the old ones to observe.  I would think it might be possible that the crabbing could have elevated the temperature on the tires and possibly led to the ply separation...  The previous owner bought the camper new so I'll also be checking with him tomorrow to see if he had the spacer installed.  If not, and I don't think he did, it would mean it came from the factory with the spacer.

I guess I'll be contacting NuCamp tomorrow and see what they have to say.

manyman297

@fstop32
I don’t understand how this happens. I understand Nucamp is better than most but how do you mount a body crooked on a frame? There’s absolutely no excuse for stuff like this. I wonder how many campers are out there like this? I hope you get it sorted out. This is definitely a liability issue. 

Mickerly

Also being the recipient of a used trailer, we need to give NuCamp the benefit sorting out all the facts before pointing blame. I understand the 'reindeer games' of getting a used trailer to work correctly. After nine months I think everything in mine is finally working right. Having been associated with a number of other RV's, larger and smaller, NuCamp may not be perfect, but they do good work.

manyman297

@Mickerly
Totally understand. For all we know these trailers may have had a frame replacement or something where they had to detach the body from the frame and it was reattached offset...so who knows.