Winterizing - T@B 400: How much water is enough water from the fresh tank

rhyno

I drained our tanks and blew out the lines & faucets on our 2021 400 for the first time this weekend. Then I used our trolley jack to lift the pax side to get the dregs out of the grey and black tank and then I noticed a significant amount of water started pouring from the open fresh tank drain. I lifted it to the height of 2, then 3 leveling blocks until it finally stopped draining after about 5 minutes.

It is surprising that what I thought was an empty fresh tank when level was still holding that much water but I really don't want to have to put antifreeze in the holding tank. Can the remaining water in the fresh tank expand at the low point drain area to cause any damage? Should I have lifted it even higher??

Denny16

No, you should be fine rhyno, for added insurance, you could leave the drain open, which will prevent any damage from it freezing.  The small amount left in the freshwater tank will just expand upwards if it freezes.
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

Does anyone know the location of the 400 fresh tank outlet?  Is it from the rear of the tank?  Was it changed since they added the Nautilus?  I know the 320 outlet was changed to the rear of the tank.

Mickerly

A small amount of "non-drainable" water in the bottom of a thank won't do any damage freezing. It has space to expand. It's the water trapped in lines that push things apart as it expands. 

Forgive this question, I don't live in the North any more. Once the tanks are drained and lines are blown clear, the p-traps should be the only thing that can freeze. I pore in some alcohol down the drains and wait for it to warm up to use the trailer again. Just add water and go.

Once the lines are clear, do we really need to put fluid in that we have to remove before use? With nothing in the lines to freeze, it seems counter productive. Again, I'm living where, below freezing means not more then a couple of days at the most, typically a couple of hours.

manyman297

Living in Northern Utah where temps can get down to the teens I felt like anti freeze was the way to go. Even after blowing out my lines I could still hear gurgling in the lines so I felt like antifreeze was a cheap way for peace of mind.

ScottG

@Mickerly, many of us in hard freeze country rely only on blowing out the lines. This has worked fine for me for six winters and counting. You do have to be methodical and thorough to make sure you don't leave any water overlooked in places like the toilet valve.

manyman297

@ScottG After blowing out my lines I was still worried I had left some in them because I could hear gurgling from the faucets as air was being blow through them. Is this something you've noticed? I'd love to skip the antifreeze altogether but am so paranoid about pipes bursting. 

Sharon_is_SAM

@manyman297 - you have the Nautilus.  The beauty of that system is the ease of using AF without getting it in your fresh water tank dictating a very lengthy process to drain, fill, drain, fill your tank in the spring.  By using AF, you don’t need to worry about your toilet valve or remnant collections of water.  I believe the manual recommends using AF, so, if you have any doubts, I agree with using AF.  

ScottG

manyman297 said:

@ScottG After blowing out my lines I was still worried I had left some in them because I could hear gurgling from the faucets as air was being blow through them. Is this something you've noticed? I'd love to skip the antifreeze altogether but am so paranoid about pipes bursting. 

I usually blow each fixture/drain one at time, and cycle through all of them at least three times. I do this systematically until there is little to no gurgling or sputtering from anywhere.

Keep in mind a few drops in the pipes will have room to expand and not cause any damage. It's when a pipe is full that freezing causes things to split.

I'm not sure if or to what extent the Nautilus and its associated spaghetti of plumbing may complicate the blowout method. Ultimately if you are uncomfortable with just blowing out the pipes, there's nothing wrong with filling them with antifreeze. In some ways, I think it might actually be easier--particularly on the winterizing end--I've just always been confident in my ability to get the pipes clear so have always done it the same way. YMMV!

manyman297

@Sharon_is_SAM Yeah, you're probably right about using AF and good point about the fresh water tank. And I guess it's not really that big of an issue to drain and gives me peace of mind...just wish blowing out the lines was enough to make me not worry though.

Denny16

Sharon, the fresh water drain on the TaB400 hasn’t changed as far as I know, and is on the end of the tank, forward end, driver’s side next to the wheel/tire.
cheers