Stabilizer Levelers on 2021 320's...do we know any more about them?

pthomas745

Anyone with a 2021 and up 320/400  know any more about the "Stabilizer Levelers" in the newer trailers?  There was one discussion on them back in March, with a few pictures of the Bal manual for them. 

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/13082/use-of-stabilizer-jacks

There are a couple of other discussions about the newer "stabilizers", but the "leveling" component is getting lost in the discussions because for years the "stabilizers are not to be used for leveling".  (Unless you have Dale Helman's mod!)

So, for owners of 2021 and up trailers.....are you using your "stabilizer/levelers" for "fine leveling?"  Looking at photos, they are much beefier than the older Bal stabilizers. Here is a manual for them from a different trailer company!

https://lance-camper.s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/docs/manuals/C-Jack-Installation-Instructions.pdf

And, a picture from the Bal website.  If someone can get the model number of the jack on your trailer, that would be great.

https://balrvproducts.com/products/consumer/stabilizing_products/c-jack.shtml

[Deleted User]

The issue was where they attach to the body of the T@b. The mounting location is not load bearing. I can't speak to how the newer models are mounted but unless they are now mounting them to the actual frame then it doesn't matter how beefy the stabilizer is.  This would be really great news though if they made it so you can use them as Levelers now. 

pthomas745

The installation manual says to install where "a crossmember meets the main frame member".  If there isn't one, "use a support channel" to support the jacks. Dale Helman's leveling jack mod used cross members on the frame, but he did point out his trailer was an earlier model.

ScottG

Looks like the same basic design as previous T@Bs, though perhaps with a higher STATIC load capacity. I use the ones on my 2015 for FINE leveling as indicated in the product description. By this I mean a few cranks to lift one side or the other no more than an inch AFTER placing blocks under the wheels.

Regardless of the mounting, I don't see this design as ever being good for full levelling as--unlike a scissors jack--the foot travels through an arc as it is lowered. This would impede further extension of the stabilizer once the foot contacts the ground.

@pthomas745, I agree with your assessment of the mounting points. I raised this concern when Dale Helman first installed his scissors jacks. (I don't think his are actually installed on frame cross-members either.) I still maintain this is a valid concern, but at this point extensive field-testing of the mod has not resulted in any reports of chassis damage. YMMV.

WayneW

Here are a couple of photos of the front and rear mounts on our 2021 320S Boondock.  It appears the mounting brackets are bolted to the frame on the front and kind of an extension of the frame on the rear.

That being said, we don't use these as "leveling jacks" but rather as stabilizers.  As @ScottG said, we use ours to fine tune the trailer after it's been roughly leveled.  I'm still in the Jed Clampett school of leveling blocks with some 2x6 decking boards so I can usually get it within an inch or so and the stabilizer jacks take up the rest.

ScottG

Yeah, those look a little beefier than mine. Installation is similar (frame on the front, frame extension on the rear) but the orientation directly to the side is different. I can't see where that would make much difference functionally, but I do expect it makes them a little easier to access (particularly on the rear).

pthomas745

@WayneW Can you tell which model number the "Stableveler" is?

The instructions describe the limitations of these....but what would "fine leveling" be?  What are the limits?  One bubble off on a level?  If you wanted to go harder on the leveling, it seems you would have to be pretty careful to "raise" entire sides of the trailer, rather than one corner.

mona

One bubble off is at least 2”.

jeannie

WayneW

Based on the mounting hole dimensions, both front and rear jacks appear to be model 23222 which has a static load capacity of 4500 lbs.  Given the 2 pairs of these on the 320, they would have plenty of load capacity to lift the trailer.  It does go back to the mounting points.  Are they sufficient to support the trailer?

Each to his/her own.  I'll still level with blocks and fine tune with the stabilizer/leveling jacks.

[Deleted User]

If you use the stabilizers to level the trailer even for fine leveling  (at least on the model year I owned 2019 and earlier) you are transferring the weight of the trailer to the seams where the center panel attaches to the outer vertical panels. I would assume this will cause significant stress on the seams and in time will cause separation and leaks. I personally wouldn't even consider "fine leveling" using the stabilizers. I gently touch the ground and that's it. 

pthomas745

The whole idea of "leveling" with the stabilizers has been met with such strong disapproval for so long it is going to take a while to get used to this totally new idea.  The warnings in the Bal manual posted above warn against "lifting excessive weight" or lifting the tires off the ground.  They also state that if you do, you can basically twist the trailer in ways that could mess up the alignment of the doors.  I guess the danger is cranking up one corner that could overstress the trailer. But, in several threads about these types of levelers, that issue does not seem to be a problem.

I've found more discussion on the Dale Helman mod on his install of "leveling scissor jacks" and the installation ideas with some good info.  Toward the end of the thread, there are comments about these "C jacks" with discussions and comments from BAL. 

In either case:  I think this is another example of NuCamp watching a good owner installed modification, seeing it work, and adapting the new idea into the Tab's design.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7575/replace-rear-stabilizer-with-true-scissor-leveling-jack/p1

Here is Mr. Helman's original idea.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7239/replace-rear-stabilizer-with-true-scissor-leveling-jack-100-bolt-on/p1

ScottG

After ruminating on the C-JACK literature and photos, I began to wonder if its more robust specifications were due in part to it not moving in an arc as the foot is lowered. It seems this has been discussed previously in one of the threads linked above, and a comment by @tybladesmith addresses this specific question.

Regardless, I still say the capability of the jacks/stabilizers/whatever are a red herring in this debate. The attachment points to the trailer may be the weak link and should be carefully considered.

In addition, the application of dynamic loads (such as you and your besties hosting a dance party in your T@B) is also a consideration. There's a reason why pounding a nail repeatedly will drive it into a block of wood, but simply trying to push it with the head of the hammer will not.   

ScottG

And, @WilliamA, I employ the same dark ages method of levelling you do. However, as T@B forum moderator, I am held to a higher standard and therefore would never pull my trailer up on anything smaller than a 2x8.  ;-) 

[Deleted User]

How much weight the stabilizers can handle is totally dependant upon the capability of the mounting location.  Their capacity is irrelevant if they are not mounted on the solid frame of the trailer. 

The damage won't likely be quickly noticed. It may take months or even a season or two for this unintended stress on the seams to cause leaks.

There is no new idea to grasp unless Nucamp has recognized the benefit of being able to use them as Levelers and provided adequate support at the mounting location. I really hope that is the case in my 2022.

WilliamA

ScottG said:

And, @WilliamA, I employ the same dark ages method of levelling you do. However, as T@B forum moderator, I am held to a higher standard and therefore would never pull my trailer up on anything smaller than a 2x8.  ;-) 

I never allow myself to be held to any standard but my own. Living to my standard is difficult, but achievable. Living to someone else's standard is the surest way I know to disappointment.
WilliamA

WilliamA

mona said:

One bubble off is at least 2”.

jeannie

I've been off way more than that for a long time. Gives the world a whole different perspective. And.....it's handy for negotiating life's sidehills....
WilliamA

ScottG

Well said, @WilliamA! A good reminder that you are, after all, a founding member of the Resident Philosophy Committee.  :-)

pthomas745

This morning on the FB page there was a discussion about the "new stabilizer/levelers" and in the 2022 320 manual there are these instructions.  See points 9-11.

STABILIZING & SET UP

Your travel trailer is equipped with a stabilizing system that serves to keep the trailer from bouncing while in use. Follow these procedures when setting up and stabilizing your travel trailer:

1. Pull into a campsite that is level and free of protruding branches and obstacles. Your trailer should be as level as possible.

2. Set your tow vehicle park brake.

3. Block the trailer wheels with wheel chocks.

4. If equipped, remove the weight distribution bars and stow.

5. Remove the pin from the coupler and pull it back to release the ball hitch.

6. Extend the tongue jack to lift the tongue off the hitch. The tongue jack must be connected to

12V power to work properly.

7. Remove the safety chains, breakaway lanyard and 7-pin connector plug. Neatly lay them over the

front of the chassis.

8. If you have jack pads, place them under the four stabilizer jacks.

9. Extend the stabilizer jacks at the tongue jack controls.

10. Place a level on the floor of the camper to determine whether it is level. Adjust the stabilizer jacks

until the floor is level.

11. At this point you are ready to connect 110V power, turn on the propane gas for cooking and start

enjoying your outdoor experience.

A flyer with all needed information on how to operate the Stabilizing System is included in your owner’s packet.

Denny16

Thomas, those are instructions for a trailer with electrical tongue Jack and electrical stabilizers, like the nüCamp Avia, not a 2022 TaB320, which has manually operated jacks on them through the 2022 build.  Same goes for the TaB400, all manual jacks.  Not sure what nüCamp is doing for 2023 builds?  FB in my experience is a good place for misinformation.
 Cheers 

pthomas745

True!  But, here is the manual from NuCamp's web page.  Page 28. 

https://nucamprv.com/app/uploads/2021/12/2022-TAB-320-Manual-Single-Page-min.pdf

Sharon_is_SAM

Someone cut and pasted and did not realize that the directions are not always generic.

pthomas745

I looked at the 400 manual, too, and it says the same thing.

manyman297

Yeah, THIS is the problem with Nucamp’s “manual”. It’s just copy/pasted info from supplier’s manuals…and obviously isn’t even from the right products (show me a tab with an electric jack from the factory).

The bigger issues is people may just take this manual as truth and seriously damage their trailer. The owner can then point to this horrible manual and say “well, this is what you told me to do”. Then Nucamp is on the hook because they created a terrible user manual.

The manual is just a regurgitation of basic how-tos that may or may not apply to your particular trailer. It’s why so many of us flood this forum and FB for help all of the time. 

(Entry edited by Moderator.)

pthomas745

I still find it surprising that there has been an improvement in the trailer.  That owners have paid for.  And NuCamp doesn't support or have any idea how it is supposed to be used.  Why change to a more expensive device?