Planning my next trips - Boondocking with the Isotherm Frig

SusanD

Since my T@b is in storage and snow abounds, I'm spending my time planning next summer's adventures.  The plan is to spend the month of July in Oregon.  I have 2 questions.  First, since it's much sunnier there, if I'm boondocking and not using the AC, will the solar power I get provide enough energy to use the fridge continually and let me heat water?  Alternately, if I have 15 amp power (ie. I can plug into the power at our friend's house), will this help?  I just recall getting an error on the Alde when I was plugged into 15 amp service so I'm not sure what works with it and what doesn't.  Thanks for your help.

(Title edited for search purposes.  Moderator)

Grumpy_G

I live in Central Oregon so let's start with the "much sunnier there". That's certainly true east of the Cascades, on the other side that is not a given. The other problem is that unless you want to bake in the open most boondocking sites will be in the trees. I often end up having to move my small solar panel a couple of times a day (no fixed panel on my trailer). With that I can stay out up to 4 days maybe 5. That is with a three-way fridge though, with the electric only fridge I'd venture you need a 100W+ movable solar panel and a decent battery. Where in OR are planning to explore ?
Can't comment on the Alde issue, mine is on a 20A outlet when at home but the manual states 16A. Obviously you wouldn't be able to use anything else in the trailer then.

pthomas745

The Alde will work on electric, but on a 15 amp circuit, you would only have access to the "1KW" electrical setting.  From the manual, Paragraph 1.5:  "each element draws 7.9 amps with a maximum output of 950 W each. These heating elements require a minimum 16-amp breaker."  In the summer, I would think the 1Kw setting will work just fine.

Of course, you could have propane to run the Alde.

You don't say how big your battery is, or which fridge you have.  As Grumpy G points out, with a propane fridge, you will be good to go with just a reasonable amount of incoming solar.  A two way fridge with a "stock" 80 AH battery (only 40 AH available) would have you monitoring your battery state and your incoming solar closely.  The smaller battery setups, even with the more efficient 2 way fridges, can quickly fall behind.

Denny16

Thomas, Susan has a. 2021 TaB320, which has the newer two way compressor fridge…
cheers

SusanD

Thanks Denny, that's correct, I have a 2 way fridge.  The plan is to stay in the Gorge for the entire month unless there's a big heat wave, in which case we'll probably head to the coast (so hopefully it'll be sunny and windy for the month!).  What I think I'm hearing is that there is probably little difference in the amount of time you can boondock, here or there, if you want to use the T@b fridge.  I have a 100 amp Battle Born battery and a Jackery for the small electronics.  We do have a portable electric fridge I can take instead.  And the Alde will work on propane.  I guess my big concern is that I don't want to find my camper beeping like crazy because of a low battery one week into a 4 week stay if I don't travel to recharge it.  So, if I don't use the fridge, will I get enough solar for the basics?  Am I frustrating myself just to save money by not paying for a full hookup when I'm planning on being there for a full month? 

Sharon_is_SAM

@SusanD  - Here is a good discussion about this same topic.  https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/11754/2021-320bd-how-long-can-i-go-boondocking-for/p1

There are so many variables to factor into the equation.  The frig draw will vary based on ambient temp., how full it is kept, how often you open the door, etc.  I would plan around worst case scenario.  Assume a minimum draw of 3 A and a 50% duty cycle, you will use 36 AHrs daily (much higher than the claimed efficiency).  Add in phantom draw of 4-5 AHrs, so around 40 AHrs a day minimum.  According to the chart provided by @DougH in the above link, a 100 watt solar panel in Oregon will produce 320  watt hrs/day = 26 AHrs.  Not enough to recharge to 100% (and that is under ideal conditions).  If you add another 100 watt solar panel, now you are at 52 AHrs - more than enough.  You can go roughly 2.5 days with a 100 Ahr lithium battery without recharging.

This past August and September we camped out west and dry camped fully half of the time.  We do have a very efficient ARB frig, and our battery is 150 Ahr AGM.  We found that using 200 watts of solar panels very quickly recharged our battery.  We were at an advantage in that we could recharge via driving to the next site, but it never came to be necessary.  

So, there are never any guarantees, but if you want to use your frig, increasing your solar capacity using a portable system will give you a lot more confidence.  If you choose not to use your frig., then the installed solar (parked in the sun) and lithium battery should be more than sufficient.

One more thing, instead of futzing around with moving panels, we laid them flat and positioned them with a southern exposure.

pthomas745

Thanks, Denny.  I swear I'm going to make a fridge spreadsheet. 

@SusanD, now that all the pieces of the puzzle are arranged, you really have a lot of leeway on your power use.

Are you familiar with the Victron app?  The last puzzle piece...is how you monitor your battery so that you know your state of charge, at the very least.  Don't let your battery status cause fret and worry...it is easy to "know".  So, if your gas alarm goes off in the middle of the night you can say, "I thought that might happen because my battery was ____.  Instead of "why is that alarm going off?!" 

Denny16

@SusanD, Sharon’s advice to get a portable 100-watt portable Solar panel is a good one.  With 190-watts of solar, I am able to recover my battery from overnight fridge, Alde, and lights use and have a 90 to 100% charge by days end.  I have a TaB400, with 200 amp AGM, so comparable to,your 100-amp lithium, the trick is to keep the battery charged daily as you free camp.  We ent 4-days without power and managed just fine, battery never dipped below 60% charge.

You could add a DC/DC battery controller/charger to put on your TV, and use it to top off the battery on bad solar days.   Have fun and stay safe..
cheers

SusanD

Thank you all for your help.  To answer some questions, I monitor my battery with the Victron app on my phone and I have a multimeter as well so I'm ok knowing where my battery is at.  I do actually have a 100 watt solar panel which I bought with the Jackery but I have yet to use it.  I gather there is a SAE plug installed in or around the 2021 Tab 320 tub but I haven't noticed it, and I definitely don't have a little black box in the tub that I've seen pictures of here.  But presumably, the extra solar panel would connect into this plug to add extra charging capacity.  If I reading all of this info correctly, if I was to leave my extra solar panel in the sun all day, every day, I (hopefully) can get 320 watt hours a day from it or 26 amp hours.  This means, as long as I have enough sunlight, I should be able to generate enough power to run the camper without the fridge for a full month (assuming 15 amps per day based on Jenn's spreadsheet).  Top that off with water and 15 amp service at my friend's place to recharge the Jackery and run a portable cooler, I should be great for the month.  Am I missing anything, other than a long enough cord to put the solar panel in a sunny spot?   

Sharon_is_SAM

If you park in the expected sun, you will have the benefit of your 105 watt installed panel in addition to your 100 watt portable panel which should net plenty of power (about 50 Ahr) to run the frig etc.  Typically, even without the SAE plug I think you can use alligator clips to attach directly to the battery if you have a built in controller.  You can run your frig with this output.  

SusanD

Interesting @Sharon_is_SAM!  Good to know.  

Grumpy_G

If the portable panel is meant to work with the Jackery it is a bare panel because the Jackery has the charge controller built in. Which means it can not be connected directly to the battery via alligator clips or the SAE port at the front (which simply connects to the battery as well).

Mellow_Yellow

Hi Susan - For some reason, my sidewall SAE port died. I hear they are flakey and mine is now 9 years old anyway. Rather than replace it, I now use one of these. That way I can connect my solar panel without opening the battery box.
https://www.amazon.ca/Terminal-Connecters-Extension-Disconnect-Motorcycle/dp/B09JP4DK4S/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3QUGRD505MQP6&keywords=sae+battery+connector&qid=1639531248&s=automotive&sprefix=sae+b,automotive,211&sr=1-3

Denny16

To use the Jackery Solar Panel, or other stand alone portable solar panel without its own controller, you will  need to get a second Victron MPPT 75/10 controller (which can be networked with your existing 75/10) between the SAE port and the battery.
Good luck and safe troves to the west…
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

@SusanD - I don’t mean plugging in your Jackery panel, I meant an additional portable 100 watt panel for a total of 200 watts to charge the TaB battery.  With that, you probably won’t need the Jackery.  

Okpete

if you are staying in the gorge most Oregon sites are shaded. Washington has some more open sites

SusanD

Thanks everyone for all of the info - I've learned a lot.  And I realized that I actually own a NOCO battery charger, so all I need is to plug it in, attach the clips and I can recharge easily.  I guess if my camper was stored at my house, I might actually have used it for the purpose but it really didn't dawn on me.  And @Okpete, I'll actually be staying on the Washington side and there is tons of sun there.  I just think of the gorge as HR & Oregon.   

Sharon_is_SAM

@SusanD - if you are out boondocking, where are you planning to use the battery charger?

SusanD

First, let me say that electricity is not my forte.  Second, I don't keep my T@b at my house so the only plug in access I ever have is when I'm hooked up at a campsite with one of those big plugs.  It didn't dawn in me that I have a means to charge my camper while staying there, other than solar.  But I have learned a lot in this discussion about what I'm going to need to totally stay off the grid - a new solar panel with a controller to begin with.

VictoriaP

@susanD, what I think @Sharon_is_SAM is asking is if you’ll have ANY source of electricity at your site. A NOCO charger needs to be plugged into a power source in order to transfer power to your battery, it doesn’t generate power on its own. You *may* be able to use your Jackery as that source, but unless it’s a large one, it won’t be more than an absolute emergency backup, and you’ll still need to then recharge the Jackery.

If you’re at a site with power, the NOCO shouldn’t be necessary, so I’m not clear on how you intend on using it?

Editing to add: I have and do carry a NOCO, but with the intent to use it with either my little propane fueled generator or my 40 amp hour lithium Goal Zero Yeti as the emergency power source. I’m also at 400 possible watts of portable solar, though right now I’m not set up to use all of it at once. The Jackery panel could likely be used with your trailer, but you’d need adapters and a controller to do so.

SusanD

@VictoriaP and @Sharon_is_SAM - Let me reiterate that electricity and I are not friends! I struggle to understand the concept.  Going back to my original questions: I'm from Canada and I usually camp where solar power is a struggle.  Next summer, hopefully, I'll be headed to warmer climes.  I didn't know what the difference it would make to be in a sunnier spot (clearly not as much as I'd hoped).  I also indicated that I had the possibility of connecting to 15 amp power which I believe is the standard household outlet.  It was only after all of the info about solar power, panels and controllers, some internet research and a good long walk in the woods that I realized I could use my NOCO with alligator clips to charge from my friend's house (not from the Jackery).  Hope this clears things up.  

VictoriaP

@SusanD Got it! Yes, you can use the NOCO from your friend’s power outlet. But it also shouldn’t be necessary. There are cheap adapters widely available that allow you to plug your 30 amp power cable into a 15 or 20 amp household socket. Often one is provided at time of trailer sale (not sure if nuCamp or the dealer provided mine, but I did receive one). Plug your 30 amp cable into the trailer, plug the other end into the socket on the adapter. Plug the 15 amp plug from the adapter into the wall. Here’s one example: https://smile.amazon.com/Camco-Dogbone-Electrical-Innovative-PowerGrip/dp/B000BUU5YA/ This one is even simpler: https://smile.amazon.com/Conntek-14101-TT-30R-Plug-Adapter/dp/B001TO4WCS/

I do this all the time at home, in fact, the trailer is plugged in all winter with a low power heater running to keep condensation away. It may not be enough to run your A/C…depends on the model and the amps available to the wall socket. But it will absolutely charge your battery.

In the PacNW, solar often isn’t sufficient for boondocking due to the angle of the sun, frequent cloud cover, and tree covered campsites. The standard guideline of 100 watts solar to 100 amp hours battery capacity goes out the window up here. Adding a solar suitcase will help, or increasing your battery capacity. Or both.

SusanD

@VictoriaP Thank you! I'lll have to see what I have and go from there. Sure wish I could keep my T@b at home.
  
I have to give some thought to the solar suitcase; boondocking for days in sunny places is a retirement dream.  Definitely not needed for here and now in the PNW!

PNWtabber

SusanD said:

 - Let me reiterate that electricity and I are not friends! I struggle to understand the concept.  

You are not alone!!!  

I bought my 2018 T@B from the original owner in 2020 -- they included their suitcase solar panels and I have yet to use them!