Does anyone run Air8 with onboard lithium battery system?

markbless

I live in AZ and want to boondock in the SW. During spring and fall, AZ temperatures might be 85 degrees at 6 PM, so I'm thinking about air conditioning.

My Air8 consumes 1,000 watts with 15/9 starting/operating amps. I want to avoid gas/propane generators. For $2,100 I can buy a 2,016 Wh Ecoflow Delta Max for $2,100 with 2,400 W AC output and plug it in as shore power. If this does not last long enough, I can add an extra battery and double my Wh for $1,500. 

The various pros and cons of using portable generators as shore power have been discussed in the Forum, which has been very helpful. 

But, I have not found an evaluation of an onboard lithium system upgrade that will run the Air8 at night while boondocking. It could be I'm going down a blind alley (not the first time) or I missed the relevant Forum posts.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Dutch061

Take a look at this thread, this was on a 400.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/14637/battery-inverter-charger-upgrade

Brad

pthomas745

This thread, and the comment by DougH, is an idea of their battery setup for running the AC on solar/battery.

With some realistic comments about what to expect as far as temperatures, run times, and battery life.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/155201/#Comment_155201

markbless

Thank you, Brad and pthomas for these links. Very helpful. Both options are good ones.

I can do a lithium drop-in or trade out a component or two, but I would need a dealer to implement these options. The lithium-to-shore power approach may be less expensive for me.

VictoriaP

markbless said:

Thank you, Brad and pthomas for these links. Very helpful. Both options are good ones.

I can do a lithium drop-in or trade out a component or two, but I would need a dealer to implement these options. The lithium-to-shore power approach may be less expensive for me.

The problem with that is that even with an extra battery pack added on, the EcoFlow is literally half the amp hours of RFraer’s setup for a similar price, and that’s not including the two 160 watt solar panels required to charge just the base unit back up to full power in the listed 1.6 hours of charging time. That’s another $800 + tax for those. At that point, you’re spending the kind of money that would get you a very nice lithium setup permanently installed, even with dealer labor, as long as you stick with decent priced LiFePo batteries such as the SOK.

(DougH’s setup would be less expensive, but likely wouldn’t run the Air8, which uses more power than the wall mounted A/C unit on Doug’s older Tab.)

If you were looking to run something smaller, like my portable 12v cooler, or just need to top off your house battery occasionally, a portable battery setup can be a practical solution. But I’m not sure it makes sense to try to run the Air8 off of one.

markbless

VictoriaP said:

markbless said:

Thank you, Brad and pthomas for these links. Very helpful. Both options are good ones.

I can do a lithium drop-in or trade out a component or two, but I would need a dealer to implement these options. The lithium-to-shore power approach may be less expensive for me.

The problem with that is that even with an extra battery pack added on, the EcoFlow is literally half the amp hours of RFraer’s setup for a similar price, and that’s not including the two 160 watt solar panels required to charge just the base unit back up to full power in the listed 1.6 hours of charging time. That’s another $800 + tax for those. At that point, you’re spending the kind of money that would get you a very nice lithium setup permanently installed, even with dealer labor, as long as you stick with decent priced LiFePo batteries such as the SOK.

(DougH’s setup would be less expensive, but likely wouldn’t run the Air8, which uses more power than the wall mounted A/C unit on Doug’s older Tab.)

If you were looking to run something smaller, like my portable 12v cooler, or just need to top off your house battery occasionally, a portable battery setup can be a practical solution. But I’m not sure it makes sense to try to run the Air8 off of one.

I agree RFraer's system is great, but would it fit in a 320 S without consuming the dinette and converting that space into sleeping only?

VictoriaP

markbless said:

VictoriaP said:

markbless said:

Thank you, Brad and pthomas for these links. Very helpful. Both options are good ones.

I can do a lithium drop-in or trade out a component or two, but I would need a dealer to implement these options. The lithium-to-shore power approach may be less expensive for me.

The problem with that is that even with an extra battery pack added on, the EcoFlow is literally half the amp hours of RFraer’s setup for a similar price, and that’s not including the two 160 watt solar panels required to charge just the base unit back up to full power in the listed 1.6 hours of charging time. That’s another $800 + tax for those. At that point, you’re spending the kind of money that would get you a very nice lithium setup permanently installed, even with dealer labor, as long as you stick with decent priced LiFePo batteries such as the SOK.

(DougH’s setup would be less expensive, but likely wouldn’t run the Air8, which uses more power than the wall mounted A/C unit on Doug’s older Tab.)

If you were looking to run something smaller, like my portable 12v cooler, or just need to top off your house battery occasionally, a portable battery setup can be a practical solution. But I’m not sure it makes sense to try to run the Air8 off of one.

I agree RFraer's system is great, but would it fit in a 320 S without consuming the dinette and converting that space into sleeping only?

Two of the SOK 206ah RFraer used would fit into the front tub of a 2021 or newer 320, possibly even into the older more curved tub that I have on my 2019. Even two of these batteries would be more amp hours than the EcoFlow + extra battery, at about the same weight.

Edit to add: not sure about the 2022, but other Tab 320s have space in the sloped tail of the trailer behind the Alde that owners have used for AGMs or lithiums…both of which can be used at any angle or in any position. That area isn’t particularly useful as regularly accessed storage, so putting batteries there can be a good use of otherwise wasted space.

Also, I *think* at least one owner found they had enough space in the Air8 compartment to fit two Lion Energy batteries. Worth searching the forum and checking the dimensions on your own unit.

tomtek

     I plan on doing some trial runs this summer in the heat with my Air8 running on Lithium.  I currently have 280aH of Lithium and 300 watts of solar.  105w on roof and 200w of suitcase.   I am mulling around and have space to add a second 280ah but the issue is on the solar charging side at that point.   An empty lithium would take days maybe weeks to recharge on solar alone.  I have ran the Air8 on my Inverter it does run it fine but at a fair current draw at 60+ amps 100 amp startup.   For a weekend it may hang in there with mild temps but I doubt much longer.  It really depends on the outside temps at the time.   I may even camp in a utility site for testing let it run down and see how long it runs Air8 along with normal use of other stuff.    

     Our Clamshell has going into next summer a 280ah Lithium DIY assembled with B cells along with a 1200 watt Pure Sine inverter.  Shore power to inverter now has an automatic cutover relay for safety.  Batteries are relocated to under the passenger wheel well seat in our 2021 CS-S.   I added a Victron 100/30 for suitcase panels via new solar plug and kept the stock Victron 75/10 for roof top solar.   I think adding another rooftop cell either on the clamshell or above it would be a nice add.   Also added a Victron smart shunt for monitoring.   For shore power charging I swapped out the WFCO converter for a PD4060 for fast and complete Lithium charging.   All wiring updated to 2awg for Battery circuits and 6awg for all charge circuits.  

Can't wait to see how it performs next hot season.

markbless

Hi VictoriaP, great point about energy. Delta Max + Smart Extra = 4032Wh versus 206Ah SOK batteries x 2 = 5272Wh, or 31% more, permanently installed energy.

As you say, the 2 SOKs could fit in the propane tub or maybe in the Air8 well (as Jenn Grover did with her 2 Lions).

RFraer's MultiPlus is about 10.2" x 8.6" x 14.25" so it could only fit on its side in the passenger-side tire well. This creates long wiring runs and consumes rare storage space.

Maybe a smaller inverter/charger is possible that could still run the Air8? Ideally, it would live in the driver-side tire well (photo below). This might be accomplished with minor adjustments such as: build and install a plywood container box an inch or so above the floor; relocate the busbar to the side of the new inverter/charger box; reroute the AC duct hose out of the way; replace the deep electrical box with a shallow one, etc.



If a smaller inverter/charger is not available, then the Delta Max approach seems better. I can cut a porthole in the Air8 well wall adjacent to the foot area of the dinette (photo below). When it gets hot, we can unplug the Air8 from its access to shore power and thread its plug over to a Delta Max in the dinette. This way we avoid the shore power connection problems (sun, heat, dirt exposure, theft risk). 



Any and all thoughts are welcome.

markbless

Hi tomtek, Thank you for the details on your system. Very helpful. The automatic cutover sure seems important. Great to hear you did DIY lithium. You've done a lot to maximize lithium charging via solar. If your Air8 runtime ends up being lower than you want, I guess you will look into adding more lithium Wh. 

tomtek

Doing some Testing today.   Here is the Air8 running on Inverter/Battery.  This gives some numbers as to what to expect.    5 hours of continuous  60 amp Air8 with the Compressor running.   The Fan only pulls 12 amps. 

markbless

Just finished our DIY upgrade to lithium. Installed in the front tub of the Tab 320 S Boondock:
Battery: SOK 206Ah from Current Connected: $1,029 (great service with call-in questions)
Battery box: Small Vinyl storage box from The Container Store. $25 (fits perfectly)
Victron SmartShunt: from Amazon: $130
Box for SmartShunt: Sockit from Amazon $18
Victron Blue Smart IP67 battery charger from Amazon: $178
Victron SmartSolar MPPT 75/15 from Amazon: $118
Various cables and connectors: $200
Total: $1,698.

Carried in TV:
XTAR SP100 x 2: $539
Ecoflow Delta Max from Amazon: $2,099

Pictures and Description:

The SOK is inside the clear vinyl storage box, which is mounted to the floor of the tub using the same screws and holes as for the lead-acid battery. Used a layer of industrial foam to protect SOK from screws holding battery box to tub. The vinyl box came with clamps to hold the lid secure. The single wire from the SOK negative comes through the lid to the SockIt box. The system positive and negative wires come in through the backside of the battery box lid.

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The SmartShunt box is secured to the lid of the vinyl storage box. The system negative wires come in from the lid of the battery box through the bottom of the SmartShunt box.


The SmartSolar 75/15, on the bottom right, is mounted to the back wall of the tub. Its input cables for the XTAR solar panels rest below and are long enough to reach outside the top of the tub. It takes 4 hours of prime AZ winter daylight for the XTAR panels plus the factory 105W panel to charge the SOK from 50% to 95%. The next day, I plugged in the Blue Smart charger. It finished the full charge in 1.5 hours and allowed me to sync the SmartShunt to 100% for the SOK.



Here is the SmartSolar charge controller mounted on the back wall of the tub. The Blue Smart charger is below on the floor of the tub. It is elevated on a block of wood, with feet, so its wires clear the floor divider at the rear of the tub and the block rests above the bolts on the floor of the tub. Its AC cord is neatly tucked away at the bottom and can reach outside the tub when used to charge the battery.



First night test: Ran the Alde heater at 1W + propane for 8 hours. Alde set to 68. Outside temp was 34 to 39 all night. Plus small DC drains from lights and pump. No phone or iPad charging. Next morning, SOK used 12% of capacity, and we used 12% of the propane tank. Drove 1 hour to next site, and SOK was fully charged. So, the SOK might give us 5 days of boondocking at a single site, including phone and iPad charging, without using our backup battery, auxiliary solar panels, or starting the car.

With spring in the desert, we will need AC. Our plan is to plug the Air8 directly into the Delta Max, which will rest underneath the bed or in the passenger side wheel well. Have not tested this yet.

markbless

Thank you to everyone for all of their input and sharing. This would have been impossible without all of the help.

RFraer

That’s a nice innovative setup particularly given your space restrictions.  I just got back from an 18 day trip out west (5000 miles total). My Setup worked great but it was not much of a test given the low temperatures. I did have a few days in the high 70’s and it was well into the 80’s inside the camper. It was nice to stop at a rest stop  and turn on the AC to knock the heat out of the camper but turning on the fan and opening the door would have been almost as effective. Your setup has given me an idea, my estimate Is that my 3 SKO batteries will run my CoolCat for 5.5 hours straight. If that turns out not to be enough, I could put a Portable Power Station in the truck, run power to my power inlet and the Multiples will combine the power sources extending run time. I will know more this summer when I get to test the system fully.

bbrktt

Any updates? Was anyone able to successfully run Air8 on the lithium battery setup?
Results and expectations (and final configurations if different than original postings) would be appreciated. 

I am looking to a similar setup as @markbless (thanks for the extensive write up) as we live in the South and air conditioning is ideal most of the year. 

kbeh

I've been researching the XTAR panels and under the right circumstances can get up to 225-250W and with the factory panel you have installed, I was wondering if a 100/20MPPT would charge quicker? I was under the impression that a 75/15 tops out at 200 for 12V and 400 for 24V. I'm still wrapping my head around this so I may have missed something. 

Yoshi_TAB

Hi,

I have a 2 x 105 Ah Li batteries along with a 2000W inverter in my 2021 320.  I installed it over the winter and below is the data I received while only running the Air 8 during a test.  It's very close to the one above and to my calcualtions of 2 1/2 hr -3 hr run time for the Air 8 if nothing else was running.  I don't really plan to run the Air 8 off battery, but was curious of the data.  My Li batteries are next to the Air 8 and the inverter is behind the WFCO.

SLJ

Moved my AGM from the tub to under the front passenger bench in my 2021 320S last year. Just got done today replacing it with two 100AH lithium batteries that fit under that bench. Could put a third back in the tub and could probably fit a fourth next to the AIR8 but I'm not interested in carrying that much additional weight or running the Air8 on battery.