Did they give me the correct battery?

newcamp

Hi all,

I recently bought a 2020 320s and the dealer said he put in a brand new battery, which sounded good. 

Now, I was researching batteries and other stuff, so I decided to go out and check what kind of battery is actually in there.

It's this Napa battery, model 8240.

It's called a dual purpose battery and in the product description it says:

"Dual Purpose Battery For Excellent Starting & Moderate Deep Cycle Service... Dual purpose power ideal for larger, harder starting engines and/or moderate-duty trolling or accessory loads... Vibration resistant design protects battery against demanding marine use."

The specs list cranking amperage and cold cranking amperage... things to look for in a good car battery/ maybe a boat battery.

But is that the appropriate battery? I feel like this is not correct for a trailer (I will certainly not use it to start any engines). 

Trying to figure out if I should call and complain and ask that they give me a different, more appropriate battery, that specifies amp hours. 

What do you think? In any case, I need to get something different than this, since I will be mostly doing dry camping and I will need some amp hours and this battery does not even have specs for that. 

Thanks!

Denny16

You got a dual use universal lead acid battery, which can be used to start an engine or be used as a 12VDC source, like for n RV.  This is not the
best battery to get, a Deep Cycle RV house battery should have been what the dealer installed.  

Sounds like they went for the least cost battery.  I would ask that they replace it, and offer to pay the difference for a deep cycle lead acid battery they should have installed, and upgrade to a 100 AmpHr AGM battery, which is a better choice yet.  Next would be to upgrade to a 100 AmpHr, Lithium, but that is twice the cost of an AGM.
 Cheers 

MuttonChops

Yep, that's about standard for what dealers install.
. . . cheapest 'deep cycle' rated battery available.

How long "it lasts" will be a function of your camping style.
Most owners seem to replace 'the dealer' battery within two years.

Denny16

A dual purpose is not necessarily a deep cycle  battery, but rather one step below a dedicated deep cycle RV/Marine house battery.  Yes it will work, but this battery likes to be kept charged for optimal performance.
 Cheers 

dsfdogs

@newcamp yes, I received the same but Interstate brand. Group 24 "combo" battery. 

VictoriaP

@Denny16 You’re correct it’s not ideal, but as the others noted, it’s extremely normal for a 320. Our battery is dealer’s choice unless you pay to upgrade, and it’s usually a combo lead acid battery at around 80 ah. Knowing this ahead of time, I specified a deep cycle AGM of at least 100 ah in my purchase contract three years ago.

@newcamp I can pretty much guarantee they’ll tell you it’s the standard battery they provide for this size trailer, but it doesn’t hurt to ask. Yes, you’ll probably need something better for boondocking, but get out and try it a couple of times first. It’s a good battery to driveway camp with while getting to know your systems and figuring out what you actually need in the way of battery/solar/charging options.

newcamp

Great responses! Thanks! It really helps knowing that the battery is considered "standard", though not ideal. 

I was thinking about adding a second one, not lithium, but something like a $250 Renogy deep cycle and just add it parallel to this existing one. That way at least they can compliment each other and I can worry less about draining. 

I might call and ask in a friendly manner if they would consider giving me something different instead and at the very least trade it in for a better one. 

VictoriaP

@newcamp My admittedly loose understanding is that if you’re doing two 12v batteries, they need to be same size, same age, same type. If the Renogy deep cycle is an AGM, that would mean it shouldn’t be paired with your existing battery.

Anyone else, feel free to correct me on this thought process.

Denny16

No, you got it in one Victoria, paired batteries need to be matched if wired in series or parallel setups.  You can have a dual purpose and a deep cycle setup, but only if they are isolated, and only one is used at a time using a A/B battery switch and purpose made isolated hookup.  Smaller Boats do this, one dual or starter battery for the engine, and a deep cycle house battery, with a cutover switch so the engine can charge either one (or both with the isolated box) and the A/B switch allows either one to start the engine (using the house battery as an emergency backup battery).
 Cheers 

GatorEgg

Wrong battery.  You should have a deep cycle.  Not dual purpose.  No need for a starting battery.  Either a dealer mistake or that’s what the local NAPA had in stock.
Tell them to swap out for correct deep cycle battery.

Please folks…. Stop accepting shoddy products from your dealers.  Incomplete trailers, no screen doors missing blinds, missing Yakima racks.  It’s beginning to give our trailers a bad reputation.

Sharon_is_SAM

@GatorEgg - the supply chain accounts for the incomplete trailers.  Otherwise, owners may wait months longer to receive their TaB. 

newcamp

Does anyone know how many amp hours could reasonably be expected from one of these types of batteries? It wasn't listed, but in case anyone has experience with that...

It's a 40 min drive to the dealer, so I'm not sure about driving there just to have it replaced (and possibly pay for difference). Considering if I would keep the Napa battery as a "backup", keeping it inside my TV. Then put in a 100 ah battery instead of this in the tongue box. 

Going dry camping for two nights in a couple of weeks. If I keep the Napa in there we will see how it holds up. I feel like it would drain pretty fast and become useless after a few trips like that. I could get a solar panel to keep it topped off, but I will be in the forest so sunspots will be sparse. 

Thanks for all the input! Definitely good to know I cannot mix battery types. 

Grumpy_G

At least the battery is made by East Penn in the US, could be worse. The marine/RV type battery is standard issue on most trailers and they work ok within their limitations. I can do three nights on a group 24 Marine/RV battery. Maybe try it first and bring some jumper cables so you can charge the battery from the car if need be. If it turns out you're running out of power upgrade to a 100Ah Li-Ion LiFePo battery. 

Edit: 120 minutes reserve capacity translates to 50AH

Denny16

That dual purpose battery, if it is a group 24, will only give you a max of around 20 amp hrs of useable power before needing to be charged.  I would return it for at least a marine/rv deep cycle battery of the same size, or better yet, a AGM which will give you a deeper discharge level than a lead acid.  

With the wide availability of AGMs, I, would not mess around with a lead acid battery these days.  The upgrade to an AGM might cost a little more, but it is worth the extra money, and you do not have to pay someone to dispose of the lead acid battery, the dealer will have to… 
 Cheers 

Grumpy_G

AGM batteries are lead-acid batteries (the Napa text blurb actually calls it an AGM battery). You'll be hard pressed to find a marine/rv battery that is not dual purpose because many applications aside from trailers require engine start. The only real upgrade are true AGM deep cycle, golf cart or LiFePo batteries.
Sorry for the nitpicking. 

bergger

I never understood why NuCamp ships the 400 from the factory with two really good AGM batteries and they leave it up the the cheap dealers to install a battery in the 320.  Not a good move on their part in my opinion.  For what the trailers cost they should install a good battery like they do in the 400.  There are plenty of good group 31 deep cycle batteries in the 105 amp hour range they could use for the 320s. 

dragonsdofly

@bergger I suspect that nüCamp ships the 400's with batteries because they are safely tucked inside the trailer.  The 320 batteries are designed to be outside (owner mods execepted) and therefore would be a very easy target for thieves.

VictoriaP

@dragonsdofly Plus, the tubs aren’t mounted prior to shipment. 

That said, I 1000% agree with @bergger, and have for years. Especially now that interior battery placement is an option they discussed in the sales video for the 2021? Just wire it that way straight from the factory and be done with it. They do themselves no favors allowing the dealer to put a cheap 50ah battery on their trailer.

bergger

That is probably their mindset on not sending a battery dransonsdofly.  However they can ship the batteries uninstalled like they do the tubs, secured inside the trailer.  I just think people buying a 320 deserve a good battery to get them started. 

pthomas745

It is astonishing how far you have to dig to find the basic specs.  Most group 24 batteries max out at 80 Amp hours, and this listing (from a Canadian vendor) lists it at 75.  So, the "usable" amp hours of this battery come out to around 37 or so.  I realize the battery has compromises as a hybrid  but the shortcomings will come out probably with realizing "not as many" cycles as a true "deep cycle" might provide. 

https://www.batteryspecialist.ca/napa-8240-12v-75ah-sealed-lead-acid-battery/

Take the battery in like a stray kitten, learn to take care of it and love it, learn all the pitfalls of battery management with this battery, and it might give you many years of service.

Denny16

You are correct @bergger, a AGM is a type of lead acid battery, just not a wet cell, which is what I was referring to.  Some wet cell batteries are sealed, but can still be opened and they do out-gas.  AGMs are an glass mat cell construction with the acid absorbed by the glass mat, no liquid acid, and they do not normally vent during discharge or more likely charging cycles, as wet cells do.  You can also find Marine Gel Cell batteries from small motorcycle size 40 AH batteries up to 200 AHs.  I used these in my sailboat several years ago.

Whilst most deep cycle AGM Marine batteries are 200AH and up, you can buy a 100 amp deep cycle AGM battery, here is a Duracell Group 27 ( most Group 24s are wet cell or dual purpose batteries) 12VDC 92AH deep cycle marine/RV battery.  Most marine deep cycle batteries can crank an engine, but not their main purpose and have a CCA rating, but they are mainly intended as house batteries.  AGroup 27 should fit in the front tub, but will need a bigger bracket.

Here is a sample listing for the Duracell battery:
https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/SLI27MAGMDC?source=bing&medium=shopping&campaign=ecommpla&msclkid=80acb282b3351ec21be4d006c0f96b67&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%5BADL%5D%20%5BPLA%5D%20Shopping%20-%20All%20Online&utm_term=4579740809732222&utm_content=%5BADL%5D%20%5BPLA%5D%20Shopping%20-%20Product%20Type
cheers

Grumpy_G

All the details you (n)ever wanted to know straight from the manufacturer East Penn/Deka: https://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/Marine-Master-Spec-Sheet-0194.pdf

The Napa battery is the DP24 which is *not* AGM contrary to Napa's claim.

And at the risk of upsetting @Denny16, AGM batteries are still using liquid, just absorbed into the glass mat material. Gel batteries use a gelled electrolyte, different thing. The linked spec sheet lists them separately.

Denny16

Thanks, my bad and no worries. I got the gel cell and absorbed mat construction mixed up.  But still no liquid to spill or slosh around.  I wasn’t sure, as some AGMs used gel mixture in the glass mat, remember reading this some where, but still all the acid is absorbed into the glass Matt.
Yes some so called AGMs are not what they claim to be, seen this too.
I will edit my previous post.  Thanks agin.
 Cheers 

Maple_Geek

The dealer installed lead-acid battery in my 2022 T@B320S is a disappointing 65 Ah Dual-Purpose Deep cycle group 24 battery. I decided to go ahead and buy a lithium battery. I expect to get it delivered today. The dealer I bought it from had very little interest in providing other battery options. I do wish battery standards/options were set by Nucamp instead of the dealer.

GatorEgg

Sharon_is_SAM said:

@GatorEgg - the supply chain accounts for the incomplete trailers.  Otherwise, owners may wait months longer to receive their TaB. 

No, it’s not the supply chains fault.  It’s manufacturers who send out faulty or incomplete products.  Don’t sell what you can’t build.  Blaming others doesn’t  help to provide a quality product.

Sharon_is_SAM

@GatorEgg - I suspect most owners prefer being able to camp.  Let’s ask!

Grumpy_G

People wanting to camp is one aspect, the other is that if Nucamp doesn't ship product they won't get any money and have to shut down in short time.

Marceline

VictoriaP said:

@dragonsdofly Plus, the tubs aren’t mounted prior to shipment. 

That said, I 1000% agree with @bergger, and have for years. Especially now that interior battery placement is an option they discussed in the sales video for the 2021? Just wire it that way straight from the factory and be done with it. They do themselves no favors allowing the dealer to put a cheap 50ah battery on their trailer.

I think that there are plenty of people who always camp with hookups and wouldn't want to pay a few hundred more dollars for a battery with bigger capacity. It makes sense for dealers to offer it as a upgrade. And some people don't want to give up the interior storage space that's needed for the interior placement.

VictoriaP

Marceline said:

VictoriaP said:

@dragonsdofly Plus, the tubs aren’t mounted prior to shipment. 

That said, I 1000% agree with @bergger, and have for years. Especially now that interior battery placement is an option they discussed in the sales video for the 2021? Just wire it that way straight from the factory and be done with it. They do themselves no favors allowing the dealer to put a cheap 50ah battery on their trailer.

I think that there are plenty of people who always camp with hookups and wouldn't want to pay a few hundred more dollars for a battery with bigger capacity. It makes sense for dealers to offer it as a upgrade. And some people don't want to give up the interior storage space that's needed for the interior placement.

Fair enough, though with hookup sites becoming harder and harder to get, not sure we’ll see many folks actually able to 100% camp that way anymore. I assumed I would be able to, and it simply isn’t viable in my region unless you book everything nine months in advance, which has left me scrambling to upgrade the off grid capability I didn’t know I’d need. 

I don’t know about your dealer, but mine didn’t offer a battery upgrade, I had to approach them with it. Judging by the frequency of threads of this type we see, I’m beginning to suspect most dealers don’t try to upsell batteries…maybe not enough profit for them?

Maple_Geek

My dealer not only did not approach me with battery options, but when I approached them they were very reluctant to deal with it so I gave up.

Da_Birds

I somewhat understand the smaller batteries with the standard model but I don't  understand why boondock models don't come with larger standard batteries if not lithium.

Our dealer upgraded us to a group 31 130AH after some discussion but told us lithium wasn't an option because of warranty concerns. Which i now know is not a concern. While a lithium upgrade is still very likely in our future, in hindsight I think they steered us in the right direction. This battery is serving our needs and if we upgrade it will likely not be out of necessity but done for convenience.