Tab 400 purchase and have a choice of a Boondock with the two way refrigerator or the three way

tonyo35

As a prior owner of a 320 Tab with a three way I learned how temperamental the three way refrigerator can be.  Through trial and error I learned to master it somewhat but do like the option when Boondocking.. The 400 Tabs are 2022 and wondering if the 12 volt system that runs off the battery will last for two to four days of off grid camping with frugal use of the electric.   I have choice of either type of refrigeration system   What do people think.  thanks Bob

Kevin_K

I have a '21 400 and I admit that I only use the 12 volt system when moving around. When I get to a site, I immediately put it back on propane (or hookup). It's been my experience that keeping the unit on DC power is not the best solution, especially when you can't always trust the weather to bring sun the next day to recharge the batteries.

VictoriaP

Assuming you camp during the summer, I’d probably take the 12v, since the 3 way has proven to be ineffective for many users during very hot weather. I believe @Denny16 has previously said the 12v fridge on his 400 with factory solar is sufficient for four days. Denny, can you confirm?

I will note he’s in northern California, which is better than some places for solar. Your results will vary depending on your location, and you may find you need to supplement via portable solar, DC-DC charging, or a generator. 

Denny16

Yes, the 192-watt solar panel on our 2018 TaB400 keeps the battery charged replacing the power used by the 2-way fridge.  The newer Cruise model is even better with 12VDC use, and you should not have any issues is most situations.  My last trip was in October and the sun was lower in the south, and even with partial moving shade, the solar had the battery charged by mid day, with the fridge still running in DC.  I would definitely give the 3-way fridge a miss.  Also, nüCamp is no longer installing this 3-way fridge.  With the smaller 2-way, you get the large hanging locker p, which we love.
 Cheers 

kottum

We've used 3-way fridges for years, that worked fine, but I never was comfortable with the heat output of the propane flame inside the trailer.  And towing with the flame on.  The 12v function is an energy-hungry heater as well.  The newer compressor 2-way fridges are my choice without hesitation.  Pairing the compressor fridge with lithium battery(s) and a decent solar panel simplifies everything.

Doug

bergger

Our 2021 400 has the 3-way fridge and it has worked great for us in Colorado.  I've also had several compressor fridges over the years with the danfoss/secop compressors and they are wonderful.  I believe the Isotherm fridges use this compressor also.  Most good compressor fridges use them.  I currently have an IceCo fridge in our truck that we use while truck camping or when we take the 400 on long trips.  It's been awesome and sips power from our jackery. 

I ended up choosing the 3-way fridge for our 400 because at the time the only compressor fridge offered was the small one in the galley.  At 6'2" I did not like having to crouch down and try to get stuff out of the fridge.  The 3-way was larger and is much easier to organize and access.  However now with the larger compressor fridge offered in the same location of the 3-way fridge I would opt for that if I were buying it now.  While our 3-way has been flawless there are more things that can go wrong with them.  Also the compressor fridges just get colder without a doubt and cool faster.  And with the solar panel offered it should have no issues keeping your batteries charged and the fridge running.  The only time I can see an issue is if you are without good sunlight for over 4 days.  

Jax0913

Interested in this as well… we have a 2018 400 with the smaller fridge. We have 200 watts of solar on the roof and 100 watt suitcase. Just camped 4.5 days boondocking in the Adirondacks on a site with barely a spot of sun, had to be super diligent about running fridge for only a few hours and turning off. By the last day I was pushing it on our battery. I would really like to make a change so I don’t have to stress about this. We typically boondock and I don’t want to be tied to electricity. Weighing options on what to spend money on fridge or battery.

marchule

We have the 3-way fridge for our 400BD.  It was a little stubborn wanting to start up on propane at 8000+ elevation.  The manual says it won't run over 5000+.  But once it got going, it ran and used very little propane.  Things stayed cold and crisp.  I like the capacity.  Having the battery as a backup was a bonus and lowered my stress level.  More options does mean more things to go wrong, I get it.  Not having to worry about getting enough sun to recharge batteries was also a stress reducer.  I do use my Mopeka app to monitor propane level.  (See, I'm not stressed.)

DM159

Our 2022 TAB400 with 3-way fridge has been excellent for us.  The rooftop solar keeps the batteries topped off (with full sun load) and we use propane most often.  We have not been to "elevation" as yet so I can't comment on any start up problems. 

Denny16

Both fridge systems seem to work equally well in most camping situations.  There will always be exceptions.  That said, I think the choice comes down to personal preference and convenience.  

With the larger 3-way fridge, the system is based on absorption cooling principle, which uses heat to make cold.  They work, but in hot situations they can start to loose their efficiency, and summer days are getting hotter each year.  

Advantages of 3-way fridge:
  Uses less 12VDC energy (a consideration when running off grid)
  Has about a 1 CuFt larger capacity (new large 2-way is about 2-CuFt larger)
  Fridge is mounted higher and access is more convenient.  

Disadvantages:
  Uses propane to cool, and needs venting to outside of trailer, vents can leak water, allow creatures in trailer, and look untidy.  Getting propane mode to work can be challenging.
  Uses more energy running on 12VDC than a 2-way compressor fridge.

  For its physical size, inside food storage area is smaller than the same size compressor fridge.  So not the best space utilization.
  Takes up the space previously occupied by wardrobe locker, on TaB400s built from 2019-2022.  As of 2023 TaB400s, only a larger 2-way fridge is available.  

Advantages of 2-way fridge:
  Uses a compressor to create cold, does not use propane, or create heat from a flame burner to cool (does create some heat in the trailer, but not noticeable).
  Seamless change from shore power to DC power.
  Uses less power when running on 12VDC than 3-way fridge.
  Better use of available space, as food storage area is larger over the same size absorption fridge.
  On 2019-2022 TaB400’s, with the smaller 2-way fridge, you get a wardrobe locker for additional storage space.
  Compressor does not run continuously, cycles off and on to reduce power use.
  No exterior vents or penetrations through the trailer outer walls.
  Less maintenance, no burners to clean, or propane lines to check for leaks.  

Disadvantages:
  Fridge food storage is smaller, and located under galley counter, so harder to access.  Freezer compartment is smaller.
  Uses 12 VDC whilst boondocking and requires 180-watts or more solar panels to maintain battery charge whilst camping off grid, so some sun shine is needed.
  Compressor does make a slight humming sound whilst running.  Compressor cycles off and on as required to cool fridge, so background noises are not constant white noise.  

Feel free to add to this list.  

For me, the advantages of the compressor fridge outweighs the disadvantages.  The new larger 2-way fridge being used now, offers more food storage area over both the older small 2-way and the previous large 3-way.  

I am willing to give up some food storage area, and the convenience of a higher location, to get the wardrobe locker, which in a small trailer like the TaB is more important than the less than 1 CuFt additional food cold storage space of 3-way, which uses up more valuable storage space than it gains in food cold storage.  A medium size cooler more than makes up the difference in cold storage space of the 3-way over the 2-way.  And no unsightly large fridge vents to let the weather or creatures in the trailer.  

The choice between the two fridges is an option each owner or potential owner needs to evaluate for themselves.  Take this list, and add your own preferences to help you make the decision that is right for you and the way you want to camp.  

For 2023, unfortunately, their is no choice, you get a nice size (large) 2-way fridge that is making good use of the space it occupies.  RIP wardrobe locker.   :(

 Cheers 

  

Jax0913

Thanks @Denny16 I agree, we love our closet and wouldn't want to loose that storage space. I think at this point it would be $1000 for a new fridge and then I have to make mods or $1000 to upgrade our battery to something we can discharge more and hopefully get solar juice on... Renogy is having a sale and I have been eyeing up this 200 ah LiFe Bluetooth battery. 

Denny16

@Jax0913, no need to upgrade your fridge, unless it is broken.  Changing the 2-way for a 3-way fridge is a step backwards, and not worth the hassle.  The 2018 Norcold 2-way fridge also has a Danfoss compressor, which is very efficient.  In normal sun, the 200-watts of solar with the portable panel should be more than enough to keep battery charged.  But given you are camping in an area that is sun challenged, I would spend the $ on upgrading your battery power to 200-amps of lithium battery, which should run your rig for 4-days without any issues, sun or no sun.
 Cheers 

Jax0913

Thanks @Denny16

jules2go

Sorry for asking the same question today! But I'm very glad to hear the 2022 bigger fridge 2-way works fairly well for boondocking since that what I mostly do it seems. 

Denny16

Yes, you do need the solar to go with the large 200 amp hr batteries, to keep them topped off.  Whilst I have the smaller 2-way fridge, we have more than enough Power to keep fridge and Alde running.  Even in October lower sun in NorCal, our batteries were recharged back up by mid day.  Just remember to get a fridge thermometer and set the fridge to the lowest number that maintains at least 40F.  

You normally do not need to set it above 3.  We pre-cool our foods and fridge on AC before heading out.  Portable solar panels to supplement the roof one is also a good idea, if camping under trees or deep shade.
 Cheers 

gande

@Denny16  You have a 2018 400 like we do. Did you install the rooftop solar yourself?  We bought our trailer new and rooftop solar was not offered as an option by our dealer. Do you also use portable panels?  We boondock almost exclusively and keeping the batteries up is always in the back of our minds. 

Gary

Denny16

@gande Our TaB400 was built in Jan 2018, and is one of the first TaB400s with the 193 watt Sunflair Solar panel option with the Victron Blue MPPT 75/15 solar controller setup, offered for the 2019 Boondock.  Our TaB was a dealer spec., custom build, which included the solar panel on the roof, a SAE plug installed by the rear cargo door, no washroom sink, and no graphics on the outside.  We added a Boondock axle in 2021, along with the new 2021 aluminum tub and lighter weight molded dinette table.  

We have no issue camping off grid with the AC/DC fridge, and normally get the single 200 watt AGM battery back up to full charge by mid-day.  We do have two 100-watt portable panels I plan to connect to a second Victron 75/15, but have not needed to use them yet.  The two 100-watt portable panels would also recover the battery, and offers more placement options to keep them in full sun.  

Since you do not have the roof top panel, you could add the Victron controller,and portable panels, using an Anderson type connector on a cable stored in the rear cargo hatch, or install the SAE port, wire the Victron between the SAE and battery, and Bob’s your uncle... 
cheers

gande

@Denny16  Our set up right now includes two Battleborn 100 amp hour lithium batteries, a 200 watt Renogy Solar suitcase and the Victron 7515 controller. Many times when you pull into camp and the sun is low in the sky and there’s shade all over the place, you don’t want to start wrestling with portable solar panels. I think I might like the convenience of having a rooftop panels always operating. 

I was hoping you were going to be able to give me information about where you had your rooftop panels installed and how much it cost. Obviously that’s not the situation that pertains.

I hope to see you at Colima in a few days and we can discuss this further.  

Gary

Denny16

@gande Gary, Yes, I will be at Olema for the Octoberfest camp out with the NorCal TaB group, in the Campfire Center.   Our TaB400 has nüCamp factory installed rooftop solar panels, not an aftermarket add on.  Perhaps Sean with Vogel’s can offer some suggestions, or help,you out with a rooftop setup.  Yes, the rooftop panels are more convenient and keep the battery charged, even when we are not using it, and do not have it connected to shorepower.   

Cheers 

Horigan

@gande
I have a 2019 400 and installed two Renogy 100W flexible panels and the Victron 75/15 controller.  Routed the wires thru the roof next to the vent into the closet and then under the bed where I mounted the controller.  Link below.  Feel free to PM me with any questions.  

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/13562/my-t-b-400-solar-install#latest

TNOutback

@tonyo35 we have a 2020 400 with a 2-way refrigerator and the 190W solar package.  We dry-camped for 4 days, 4 nights with solar panels facing north, mostly sunny skies and some tree cover blocking early morning sun.  We left with 75% battery capacity remaining if that helps you any.  On another occasion with heavy tree cover and rainy/cloudy, I had to pull out the generator to top up the batteries on Day 3.

tphaggerty

Jax0913 said:

Interested in this as well… we have a 2018 400 with the smaller fridge. We have 200 watts of solar on the roof and 100 watt suitcase. Just camped 4.5 days boondocking in the Adirondacks on a site with barely a spot of sun, had to be super diligent about running fridge for only a few hours and turning off. By the last day I was pushing it on our battery. I would really like to make a change so I don’t have to stress about this. We typically boondock and I don’t want to be tied to electricity. Weighing options on what to spend money on fridge or battery.

I have a very similar set up and we camp in the Northeast for extended periods. I would strongly suggest going to lithium batteries before doing anything else. Renogy has them on sale right now! We originally put in 2 100 amp hour LiFePo battery in place of my original 6 V AGM batteries. The upgrade gave me 200 amp hours of usable electricity versus about 120 amp hours of real usable in the 224ah AGMs. 

I actually just installed a third 100 amp hour battery because we tend to camp for extended periods in shady spots. Sort of a pain to spend that much money and time  just to run a refrigerator! However, it does work very well now. I can easily go for 5 to 6 days without any solar charging, and basically forever with small amounts of charging. 

Since the lithium don’t have to be vented, you can put all three in basically the same space as the original 6 V AGM‘s with some modifications of the battery box.  2 100ah lithium fit in the same space with no modifications.