Renogy 2000W Inverter Install in T@B 320S

rh5555

I don't think re-wiring is necessary.  With your inverter generating 2000W of AC power, I estimate the total voltage drop in your current 2 AWG wiring to be about 0.45V.  If you changed out to 0 AWG wire (per the chart), your voltage drop would be 0.28V.  All this means is that you won't be able to run your inverter quite as long before the battery voltage drops too low and the inverter shuts itself down.  By then you're trashing your batteries, so why would you run the inverter that long anyway?  Using your current wiring, you're only wasting about 80W (out of the 2000W) in heating the cables, that's 4% wastage.  Not worth worrying about.

What you should worry about is the size of your in-line fuse:  If the inverter is generating 2000W, it will draw 166 Amps (=2000/12) from a 12V supply (assuming 100% efficiency in the inverter).  The actual current draw could be greater (lower efficiency, lower battery voltage).  I'd say that the fuse should probably be 200 Amps.

AnOldUR

rh5555 said:

What you should worry about is the size of your in-line fuse ... I'd say that the fuse should probably be 200 Amps.

Is the worse case scenario that the fuse will blow? For a test, I ran the Air8 for over an hour with the 125 amp fuse and it held. 

rh5555

AnOldUR said:

rh5555 said:

What you should worry about is the size of your in-line fuse ... I'd say that the fuse should probably be 200 Amps.

Is the worse case scenario that the fuse will blow? For a test, I ran the Air8 for over an hour with the 125 amp fuse and it held. 

Yes, worst case is the fuse will blow.  But it will wait until the most inconvenient time when you really need the A/C and don't have a spare fuse!  Or when you plug in the microwave.  I'd suggest getting a spare 200A, so if/when it blows, you have a sturdier replacement waiting.

Denny16

The AWG no 2 cable in a 16-foot run is good for 120-amps.  So as long as you do not exceed 1800 watt load on the inverter, you should be OK.  Going to AWG no.1 cable, would give you a better safety margin, I case your load exceed 1800 watts.  Put a 150 amp fuse in line on the no 2 cable, and this will blow if the load exceeds 150 amps.
 Cheers 

rh5555

@Denny16: I don't understand where you're getting this hard cutoff from.  I see no issue in running the inverter at 2000W on the existing 2 AWG cable.  As mentioned before, it will just result in a slightly higher loss on the cable, but not a critical one.

Denny16

@rh5555, I am using industry standard DC current/wire charts.  A AWG 2 cable is rated up to 120 amps for a 15-foot run (includes length of both legs, positive and negative. From 125 to 150 amps, an AWG 1 cable is recommended, both are based on keeping the voltage drop,to 3% or less, so a little fudge room on length.  You want the fuse rating to cover the load, and protect the cable run from overheating, so a AWG 2 cable rated at 120 amps, should have a 100 to 120 amp fuse.

A 2000-watt inverter connected to a 12 VDC source, can draw 166 amps, at a full 2,000 watt load.  That said,  most inverters will not sustain a full 2000 watt load, so a typical 2K watt inverter is good to run at 1800 watts.  Some newer inverters with larger surge ratings can run at full rated capacity.  A 2000-watt load is 166 amps (2,000/12=166).  This is basic DC circuit theory and application, based on industry standards, used by most electricians and electrical engineers, which are established by Underwriter’s Lab.

Most inverter’s have an installation guide/instructions, which give wire and fuse size recommendations.  I coiuldn’t find one for the Renogy 2000-watt pure sine waver inverter AnOldUR is using.  But I do agree with your statement above, his AWG2 cable run should be more that sufficient for his application, and properly fused, should not be an issue.  I do not think he needs to go to an AWG No.1 cable either.  I do recommend a 120 or 125 amp fuse to offer better overload protection, but that is just me going by the book.  On our TaB400’s 1800 watt AMS Inverter, which only has 1200 watts useable power, nüCamp used AWG no.4 wire and 100-amp fuses, which is within the industry standards chart.
 Cheers 

rh5555

I think @Denny16 and I are in agreement - it's not worth the hassle of upgrading the wiring, but if any other tabbers are considering this mod, then they should go with the heavier cable.

Regarding the fuse:  @AnOldUR: I'm not sure if you're using a 125A or 150A fuse (you mention both in your posts).  If your current fuse is working for the biggest load you're ever going to apply, then great!  I would carry a spare with you, though, as it may blow at a most inconvenient time.  I personally would suggest carrying higher amperage fuses too, especially if you're using a 125 Amp fuse.  Remember that the fuse is not for protection of the inverter from an overload condition - it has its own shutdown for that - it is to protect against an accidental short of the 12V supply lines, or a catastrophic failure of the inverter's electronics.  A 150 or 175 Amp fuse will work for protecting against those unlikely scenarios.

AnOldUR

@rh5555 and @Denny16 thanks for the comments. Feeling better about my choice of wire size. I agree that if someone else reads this (or if I did it again) using larger wire would be a better idea, but the AWG 2 was hard enough to work with. I started with a 150A fuse, but changed to a 125A after reading one of @Denny16's previous posts. I will definitely carry a couple of spare fuses of both sizes and maybe pick up a 175A just in case. 

Denny16

A 175-amp fuse is too big for AWG no 2 cable/wire, and not safe to use.  I would stick to your 125-amp fuse, and Bob’s your uncle... 

@rh5555, a fuse’s main task is to not only protect the devices connected, but to prevent fires from wire’s overheating when too. Inch current is applied.  Each wire gauge in DC circuits has a recommended fuse size for a given length of run.  A AWG no 2 cable/wire is rated for a max of 120-amps with runs up to 25/16 feet with 3% voltage loss.  So in the above application, a 125-amp fuse is the biggest I would use.
Cheers

elbolillo

AnOldUR said:

@rh5555 and @Denny16 thanks for the comments. Feeling better about my choice of wire size. I agree that if someone else reads this (or if I did it again) using larger wire would be a better idea, but the AWG 2 was hard enough to work with. I started with a 150A fuse, but changed to a 125A after reading one of @Denny16's previous posts. I will definitely carry a couple of spare fuses of both sizes and maybe pick up a 175A just in case. 

How many feet of wire did you have to use between the battery and the inverter as installed? I have a 2000w Renogy inverter on the way and want to plan out my install.

AnOldUR

elbolillo said:

How many feet of wire did you have to use between the battery and the inverter as installed?

I used 8 Foot 2 Gauge AWG Wire purchased from Amazon with pre-assembled 5/16" lugs. The length was really close, but it just made it from my tongue box to where I mounted the inverter under the drivers side bench seat. I'd be interested in seeing how you approach the installation.

Denny16

After quite a bit of reach and looking at different inverters, I have decided to go with a Victron Phoenix 1200 watts, as it has a true 2,000 watt surge limit and puts out full 1200 watts, unlike the AIMS inverter.  I currently only need to run the small 700 watt microwave oven, and it needs 1400-1600 watts at startup, which the Victron will do (according to reviews and specifications I have read).  

When I upgrade to Lithium batteries, I will probably go with the larger Victron 2K inverter/charger, to increase AC and battery charging capability. 

I like the idea of staying with Victron.  It also has the advantage of Bluetooth connectivity and has a remote panel as part of the kit.  This way, I can keep my existing wiring and fuses, just swap out the AIMS inverter and remote panel.  Anyone want a slightly used AIMS 1200-watt inverter?  Make me an offer.
 Cheers 

rh5555

@Denny16: Please keep us informed as to whether this all works as expected.  A true irritation that supplied inverter cannot power supplied microwave and a simple solution would be good to know about!

elbolillo

Does anyone have any experience with using the WFCO T-30 transfer switch? I am considering a few options for my installation, and since I am already going to be doing some wiring, I am thinking that having this transfer switch would be a fairly inexpensive solution to being able to have all outlets available for use with both shore power and inverter power.

Denny16

@elbolillo A transfer switch is one option, another is an inverter with a built in auto transfer switch, if you are going to upgrade or add a new inverter.

@rh555 What size (watts) is the nüCamp provided microwave?  I do not have the nüCamp microwave option, but purchased a smaller 700-watt microwave, thinking it would work with the AIMS 1200 watt inverter.

I will post my progress and results.  Hope to order the new Victron 1200 inverter this week or next.  Since we are nearing the end of our camping season, this may become a winter project.  On our upcoming trip, we will be at a seaside campground, with shore power. 
cheers

elbolillo

Denny16 said:

@elbolillo A transfer switch is one option, another is an inverter with a built in auto transfer switch, if you are going to upgrade or add a new inverter.

@rh555 What size (watts) is the nüCamp provided microwave?  I do not have the nüCamp microwave option, but purchased a smaller 700-watt microwave, thinking it would work with the AIMS 1200 watt inverter.

I will post my progress and results.  Hope to order the new Victron 1200 inverter this week or next.  Since we are nearing the end of our camping season, this may become a winter project.  On our upcoming trip, we will be at a seaside campground, with shore power. 
cheers

I already have the Renege 2000w inverter on the way. So I wanted to consider just adding that transfer switch.

Denny16

It should work @elbolillo, just another step, but since it is part of the WFCO, install should be straight forward, and not hard to do.  Let,us know how you gets long with this.
 Cheers 

rh5555

@Denny16:  The supplied microwave is by HighPointe and I think it is 900W nominal output, 1350W supply, but I'm away from my trailer for the next few weeks, so cannot be sure.

Denny16

Looks like this microwave will require a minimum of a 2K watt inverter to work.  

I think nüCamp intended for the microwave to be used only when hooked up to shore power, as the AIMS 1200 watt inverter will not even come close to running it on previous TaB400s.  On the new 2023 TaB400, nüCamp has included a larger battery option (4/100 amp lithium batteries and a 3K inverter/charger) that will be able to run the microwave off batteries whilst camping off grid (boondocking).  

It would not be that hard to add this upgrade package (available from Battleborn) to the previous 2021-2022 TaB400 models.  The 2020 TaB400 would present some challenges to place the battery/inverter system, not sure it will fit in the outside storage locker.  The 2018/2019 TaB400 will need the under bunk center storage locker floor reinforced to support the added weight of the batteries and inverter, as this is a false 3/8ths plywood floor over the trailer’s floor, which is unsupported in the center area where the new battery/inverter upgrade package is installed.
 Cheers 

AnOldUR

A quick update. I wired the inverter's 15amp circuit to provide power to the outlet by the floor and the one up above the sink. For the floor outlet, I was able to have the upper outlet fed by the inverter and the lower outlet fed by shore power. I used the existing wiring, so the outlet above the sink was all inverter fed because there was a single wire going to it through the floor outlet box. Thinking that it would be good to have a shore power outlet by the sink, I decided to add another one. This location by the sink worked out well because the back side went into the compartment that has the water pump in it.

Denny16

I trust this new sink outlet is GFI protected?
 Cheers 

AnOldUR

@Denny16 you win! I was wondering how long it would take someone to mention GFI.

The answer is no, but only because I haven't made the trip to Home Depot. Since I removed the 3-way fridge and replaced it with a 12V only chest, the outlet under the sink where the old one was plugged is the perfect place for this electrical extension to be plugged in. I'll be swapping out the receptacle for a ground fault next.

In case anyone is interested, this is the outlet:

Denny16

OK, that should work just fine, and the new outlet has a cover to help keep water out.  
 Cheers 

Yoshi_TAB

Hi @AnOldUR (or anyone else).

Revisting this older post as I'm getting ready to tackle the same inverter installation in my 2021 320S.  I've attached a diagram of how I think your final installation was performed.  I also have a few questions, that I think are answered in the post, but want to double check.

1.  Do I have the wire and fuse size correct on my drawing?

2.  I got a bit fuzzy on the GFI issue.  I'm not sure where I plan to place the outlet, but does it need to be a GFI outlet or does the inverter have that protection?

3.  Was changing the outlet at the Air8 a seperate task, or was it somehow tied into the inverter install?

4.  What did you use the second outlet on the inverter for ?

5.  I have two batteries in parallel, would the negative and positive go to the same battery or does it not matter?

Thank you

AnOldUR

@Yoshi_TAB I am not an expert at this so hopefully someone with more skills will correct me where I went astray. The only thing I notice with your diagram is that it doesn't show the batteries wired in parallel. 

1.  Do I have the wire and fuse size correct on my drawing?
That looks good to me. The closer to the terminal the better.

2.  I got a bit fuzzy on the GFI issue.  I'm not sure where I plan to place the outlet, but does it need to be a GFI outlet or does the inverter have that protection?
From what I've read, the Renogy inverter does have internal ground fault protection.

3.  Was changing the outlet at the Air8 a seperate task, or was it somehow tied into the inverter install?
It was a separate task that I chose to do, but tied into the inverter install in that I wanted to be able to run the AC on either inverter or shore power.

4.  What did you use the second outlet on the inverter for?
I'm only using one of the two outlets to power the circuit that connects to the floor and kitchen outlets. For the floor outlet I divided the connection between the upper and lower receptacle so that one uses the inverter and the other shore power. The air conditioner receptacle is fed by the High Output AC Terminals on the inverter.

5.  I have two batteries in parallel, would the negative and positive go to the same battery or does it not matter?
I wired the positive to one battery and the negative to the other.

Yoshi_TAB

Hi, Tks for the quick response.

My batteries are wired in parallel, but I did not show it.

So I'm clear (because these things hurt my head)...

-The floor outlet is divided in two; one is still  powered for 110V shore power while the other comes from the inverter?  Then the one half (from inverter) is daisy chained to the new outlet by the kitchen?

Same for the AC outlet.  You installed in a new double outlet.  Half is wired for 110V shore power and the other half comes from the high output AC connection on the back of the inverter?

AnOldUR

@Yoshi_TAB that's it. You probably know this, but the receptacles have tabs that you can break off to isolate the top from the bottom.

Really need cleaner labeling.

Yoshi_TAB

tks..your documentation  really helped me to really visualize how to do this...

AnOldUR

@Yoshi_TAB, think about posting pictures when you do this. Seems like everyone comes up with slightly different installations that we can all learn from. Hoping that it all goes smoothly for you.

Yoshi_TAB

Hi @AnOldUR,

Would like to check if the place where you cut your hole is shown in the picture below?  Looking at my TAB  that spots looks to be above on of the holding tanks? 

Did you just use a wood hole saw bit?  About how thick is it?  Any difficulties?  Then you had a clear opening to the outside?  Correct?

Then you ran the wires thorugh a hole in the front tub?



Thank you