Considering a 2023 400, family of 4

CloudedLeopard12

With the new bunk design, we are considering a new 2023 400. I have read some people say on here that it isn’t a family camper, but we are ultralight backpackers (pre kids) and now we think it would be nice to extend our camping season with the 2 little ones. Just to have some warm sleeping space and a place to get out of the elements if it is windy, rainy, etc. 

We have a new ford ranger, towing capability of 7500 lbs. We haven’t seen many other rigs that are 1) lightweight 2) can sleep 4 people 3) as nice of a finish out with a reputation for quality 4) boondocks edition gives a bit more clearance for our location in SW Colorado. 

Anything you folks have to offer as suggestions or other rigs to consider is greatly appreciated. 

It also appears that in the last years the price has really grown. The very cheapest I have haggled is for a boondock edition with solar package is 39k, and I have called many of the suggested RV sales people that have been mentioned on this forum. 

manyman297

My only hesitation with a family of 4 is once the kids start to grow (so pretty much immediately) the space will start to shrink. We are a family of 3 and one dog and even with all 4 of us it gets crowded and I’d say we’re light packers too. 

With that said, if you’re sold on the 400 just be prepared for tight spaces. Moving from the front to the back with somebody cooking can quickly annoy the chef (ask me how I know). Pick a spot and stay there. 

I’m not 100% sold on the bunk setup but I haven’t seen it in real life. It just looks really cramped and may quickly get old as you constantly are tearing down and setting up two sleeping areas. Something like the Airstream Bambi 16RB has more open floor space and can sleep two people pretty easily on the dinette. But there are trade offs with that floorplan as well.

As for the price I’d say $39k sounds reasonable. We paid $33k in early 2021 and you’re getting several upgrades we don’t have. 

With the TV you have you do really have limited options for a quality trailer that can sleep 4. Sure you could do the R-Pod but it’ll fall apart in short order. Airstream Bambi but then you’re broke. The 400 is popular because it’s “just right”. 

VictoriaP

I would say give a LOT of thought to what you want from an RV, and visualize exactly how you’ll use it. With the bunk design, to use the dinette as a table means putting up and tearing down the bunks regularly, and that gets old very fast. Most people I know with kids opt for a setup with a permanent dinette and permanent beds for everyone.

Also, give some thought to the close quarters in bad weather. At the dealer, get all four of you into the trailer of your choice, shut the door, and stay cooped up in there for at least an hour, pretending to cook, change clothes, use the bathroom—really go through the motions of bad weather camping with four people in that space. Look around and think about where you’re going to store four peoples’ worth of clothing and gear. Now think about doing it with one kid suddenly feeling rundown—getting a cold or stomach bug happens on vacation too, how does it change how you’d function in the space?  

It sounds silly, but doing this can save you from making a bad decision, because their small size is the most common reason people choose to sell a Tab. Spending an hour pretending to bad weather camp will give you a better sense of whether any given rig is going to be right for you.

Good luck!

bergger

As an owner who loves their 400 I would say don't get one for a family of four.  The quarters are very tight and probably not the best layout for four people.  You mentioned you just need a warm place to sleep and to hang out in bad weather and for that I believe there are many other less expensive options with better floorplans for you.  I recommend a few things.  First is to go to an RV show where you can get inside many different trailers to get an idea of what you like and don't.  Next I would recommend renting several different RVs for a summer to see what really seems to work for you.  My brother in law is also a family of 4 with two young children and this is what I recommended to them and what they did.  They went to a couple of RV shows then rented 4 different RVs over a summer.  This allowed them to find out what kind of space worked for them and what amenities they really wanted.  Having a permanent bed, a permanent set of bunks and a permanent dinette to eat and play games at when it's raining out ended up being very important to them.  Also having enough storage place for the kids stuff. Buying an RV is a big investment so I recommend you take your time and really try some RVs out to hopefully the best fit for you.  My first RV, when my daughter was young, was a popup and it was fantastic for a family of 3 or 4.  Tons of room inside, easy to tow and less expensive.  If the kids jumped around in it or damaged something I was not freaking out about it.  I don't think I would feel the same with the kids jumping around and rough housing in the 400.  

CloudedLeopard12

Thank you, you all bring up some good points. 

We might rent and get a better feel over a few days, and also try some teardrops with a roof top tent and just enjoy more 3 season camping? Defiantly some trade offs when you go teardrop. 

But manyman297 you are right, many campers seem cheap, Bambi has some downsides and price is high, this is why we are attracted to the 400!

Denny16

Another option, in a cross between a Pop Up trailer and a TaB, is the Taxa Outdoors Mantis, which is a bit longer than the TaB400, and has a more open floor plan, with two bunks that go up, or fold down quickly.  You can leave the bunks setup and the dinette makes into a large queen size bunk, with several arrangement options.  A cassette toilet/shower unit is another nice option.  There is an Overland edition, which:

• Dry Weight: 3,486 lbs
•  14" Ground Clearance
•  Sleeps 4+ adults (the front bunks are single sized bunks with lots of room
•  Secure, pop-up roof for optimized ventilation
• Galley midships with lots of counter space
• Open storage plan. With nice Baltic birch ply counters/cabinets

Cheers 

CloudedLeopard12

We did look at both taxa cricket and mantis.

We were concerned about longevity of the fabric pop up. Also, at their price points cricket did not have bathroom/bath option, and Mantis wet bath option seemed a bit odd. 

They did have outdoor showers, great if you are in Texas which is where they are made. 

Both handsome trailers for the right people though!

TomCanada

We have a family of 4 plus dog (kids are mid teens) in a 2021 Tab 400 and I can tell you it's absolutely doable.  We sleep one person on the floor on a narrow air mattress and the dog curls up by the door and there's enough room for us to all sleep.  The rest of the time we are outdoors (except in inclement weather) and never found space lacking.  We bring along a small tent for extended trips so on nice days the kids can have some privacy on their own.  I wouldn't do this if you're planning on doing multiweek trips but for the occasional week or weekend it's definitely doable.  I wouldn't trade the Tab for anything else - airstream is $$$ and everything else is (relatively) garbage..

CloudedLeopard12

We just drove over and checked out the 400 with all 4 of us. We set up the bunk system and took it down a few times will all of us in there. It is tight.but not a deal breaker.  

We also looked at the new and a used lance, and a Flagstaff e-pro with a slide out. We didn't really like the typical RV feel of.them. We will keep looking to see if there are any other small options that sleep 4. 

CloudedLeopard12

TomCanada !! This is exactly how we are feeling! Everything seems low quality.

Did you consider either TAXA options, out of curiosity? 

Mickerly

The 2023 with it's new bunk may be a pretty good choice for two small kids. We have one adult son living at home. We when we go in our 320, he sleeps in a tent.

Unless you want a much larger RV something like the 400 or Casita are players. As the kids grow, they move outside to a small tent. 

manyman297

CloudedLeopard12 said:

Thank you, you all bring up some good points. 

We might rent and get a better feel over a few days, and also try some teardrops with a roof top tent and just enjoy more 3 season camping? Defiantly some trade offs when you go teardrop. 

But manyman297 you are right, many campers seem cheap, Bambi has some downsides and price is high, this is why we are attracted to the 400!

Yeah, as a relatively new RV’er as well I was shocked at how much garbage is being cranked out of these factories. Coming from a cheap Forest River popup to the 400 was quite the jump. 95% of what’s out there frankly sucks so you’re limited to just a few choices. 

One other option that comes to mind is Safari Condo. If we ever upgrade our 400 this might be one of the only brands I’d consider. Canadian made…apparently their quality is outstanding. The only downside is they have like a 2 year wait list. Their campers are extremely lightweight (almost mind-bogglingly lightweight) and have that Euro vibe that sets them apart from the typical American camper aesthetic. 

The F1743 sleeps 3-4 but the F2114 would be perfect for sleeping 4 as it has a king size bed in back and the dinette converts to a queen-sized bed. I don’t understand why these haven’t gotten more attention in the states. 

kottum

The In-Tech company makes very high quality campers.  A model with similar layout but more spacious than the NuCamp 400 is this one.  We have looked at them and they are nice, well constructed with premium materials (welded aluminum frame and body cage).

https://intech.com/rv/models/sol/horizon/

As two retirees looking primarily for a quality trailer for long distance travel, we choose the NuCamp 320s Boondock.  Every time I use the bathroom I wish we had chosen the In-tech Sol Dawn.

Doug

CloudedLeopard12

@kottum we hadn't heard of the in-tech brand! The sol horizon is a pretty amazing option for us. The dinette can seat 4 better than the 400, and I like the bathroom better. We did read a confusing review that said they were cold sleeping with outdoor temps at 50 degrees? We need to do some more researching on this aspect. 

@manyman297 safari condo is really sleek. I notice you can rent one off of outdoorsy in the next town over. We are going to do this!

Really appreciate both these options. 

rfuss928

A northeast T@B and friends gathering was all T@Bs, T@Gs and other teardrop trailers 10 years ago.  Several long time participants now have switched from T@Bs to the Alto and InTech brand trailers.  The InTech Sol Horizon was our choice if we  wanted that size and weight.  The Sol Rover is similar space to 320s but much heavier IIRC.  The Altos are quite spartan in pursuit of light weight.  Last we looked the Alto waiting list was two years+ and the few used ones available were selling for as much current retail.

MuttonChops

Related = a Bit Off Topic = ramblings

I have enjoyed reading this thread . . . and am glad 'we' decided on one child as life was so much easier.
Of course two+ children would have been fun but not so easy . . . {I was 1/5, wife 1/4}

Our camping years with child were before-trailer; truck shell canopy or tent.

Then we moved to recreational boating.  Our boats had four sleeping bunks so bringing a freind was a regular event in the pre-teen-years.

Those boats were 26 & 28-feet LOA . . . . I can not imagine doing the same in a TaB-400 useless the weather was ideal and everyone was out of doors except for sleeping.  Which was not the case on a boat between the hours underway and rainy days - - - being able to send 'the kids' to the V-Berth cabin was a godsend .

TABaker

manyman297 said:

CloudedLeopard12 said:

Thank you, you all bring up some good points. 

We might rent and get a better feel over a few days, and also try some teardrops with a roof top tent and just enjoy more 3 season camping? Defiantly some trade offs when you go teardrop. 

But manyman297 you are right, many campers seem cheap, Bambi has some downsides and price is high, this is why we are attracted to the 400!

Yeah, as a relatively new RV’er as well I was shocked at how much garbage is being cranked out of these factories. Coming from a cheap Forest River popup to the 400 was quite the jump. 95% of what’s out there frankly sucks so you’re limited to just a few choices. 

One other option that comes to mind is Safari Condo. If we ever upgrade our 400 this might be one of the only brands I’d consider. Canadian made…apparently their quality is outstanding. The only downside is they have like a 2 year wait list. Their campers are extremely lightweight (almost mind-bogglingly lightweight) and have that Euro vibe that sets them apart from the typical American camper aesthetic. 

The F1743 sleeps 3-4 but the F2114 would be perfect for sleeping 4 as it has a king size bed in back and the dinette converts to a queen-sized bed. I don’t understand why these haven’t gotten more attention in the states. 

Safari Condo did have a great reputation; however, you might check on the FB page owners group, or with current owners.  It's my understanding they have some frame issues that should involve a recall but it's not happening.  I am friends with two couples that own the R model.

CloudedLeopard12

@TABaker I did notice this recall listed on their private Facebook for sale group.

It is annoying how these sell the same price used as new, but the waiting time is long. 

Lunaru22

This is an interesting post. With respect to the OP's query, I was wondering if getting a Walker tent or similar attached to the Keder rails would help extend the living space for both parents and kiddos. We currently have an Airstream 33 in the shop, but considering downsizing to the TAB 400. The quality build of these trailers impress us so much! But can 2 adults and 2 cats take extended trips like 4-6 months in the TAB 400? I think the tent to extend the living space would help. Funny enough, when we were in the Airstream, we spent more time inside than outside. Seems like without fail, I'd deploy the awning so we could sit outside and suddenly winds would pick up LOL! Thank you for sharing your feedback! 

Dereco

I considered the Safaris as well but pricing was factor, so we got a 320-S. Later learned of the frame issue, and know someone whose frame separated after an extended trip on gravel road. Warranty covered it, but that’s a bummer to have happen on the road…

My thoughts on 2 kids and the 400 is that it is easily doable, all comes down to camping style and preferences We camp from, not in, our Tab.  Yes, no permanent table, so we have to set up every night, but it works. When wife and daughter sleep in, I get out for a walk, coffee, or sit and read outside under awning. 

But as stated, we camp from, not in. Most but our time is outside (we are 3 + dog). When our daughter takes a friend, they enjoy a small tent (yes, we all have Tabs to get away from tenting, but tenting for kids is still fun, especially with a friend). Sometimes I daydream about a rooftop tent for our Honda Pilot for more serious and convenient tenting but a ground tent works for now.

We also have the large awning, which provides a place to sit and relax, except in the windest, coldest weather. If required, I would have the full tent/awning, with a cot to sleep on. We don’t need, hence only the awning.

So for the amount we use it, 10 to 20 nights a year, our Tab works for us, and I think depending on ‘camping style’ a Tab 400 could work for 4.
 

manyman297

For us the camper has become exactly what @Dereco has said…we tend to camp from the 400 and not in it. And I feel like most people camp this way. If we’re hanging out in the camper we always have the door open and the screen closed because we want that sense of being outside. But more often than not we’re outside hanging out in camping chairs.m unless the weather is bad.

Denny16

Same here, in cooler NorCal weather we have our morning coffe inside the TaB, but once the day starts warming up, we get outdoors…
After all, that is what camping is all about.
 Cheers 

dyoakum

I'm late to the thread, but just wanted to add that we are a family of 5 and it works great. The kids sleep in a tent. But we can pack all the bedding and nice thick foam mattresses in the trailer so the kids have a nice nest of their own in the tent. We all eat in the trailer and even watch a movie. Then they all sleep in the tent. All the camping supplies and bedding are stored in the trailer so we're ready to go anytime. We love it. Sure we could get a bigger trailer, but then you need a bigger tow vehicle and the level of complexity goes up. What's nice about the T@B is just the simplicity of it.