High Cost of Rhomar Exchange

bengezac

nuCamp Service Bulletin           Number: TRU-001

nuCamp and Alde announce a Technical Service Bulletin.  This technical service bulletin addresses the topic of the heat transfer fluid and grounding of the Alde 3020 system in select nuCamp manufactured units from January 2020 through January 4th of 2021. 

 

SERVICE BULLETIN UPDATE

It has been brought to our attention that there is some confusion on the process for flushing the Alde system and refilling with the new Alde Antifreeze.

 

To eliminate any confusion or miscommunication with the direction of Truma Corp, nuCamp is recommending following the process below.

 

Ø  Per Truma Corp’s recommendation, units built prior to January 1st 2020 that have Century Chemical Glycol, should upgrade to the new Alde Glycol Antifeeze.  However, it is not required.

Ø  ALWAYS flush the Alde system with tap water or distilled water to remove all Century Chemical Glycol before filling the system with the new Alde Gylcol Antifreeze.

Ø  If the system already has the new Alde Glycol Anitfreeze, you do not need to flush it with water.

 hope this will help you 

Slackers

We just refreshed our '19 with Century this past summer, so won't be switching for a couple camping seasons.  During this time I'm hoping we'll learn more about the effectiveness of Rhomar water and that its price goes down.  At the next fluid refresh, I'll dismantle all the connectors, clean and seal them, and then make a possible switch over.  Right now, I don't see the value of double clamping the hoses.

pthomas745

The glycol "change" from Century to Rhomar occurred with trailers built after Dec, 2020.  Here is the NuCamp note about it.  This takes care of your first bullet point.

https://nucamprv.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/44002156353-2021-glycol-change.

I bought my trailer in late 2016.   The "Changing Out The Alde Fluid" thread was started in March 2016. The Alde glycol and exchanges were still a very rare thing for owners to do.  If you look at the first couple of pages of that thread, owners were simply "draining and refilling", getting as much out as possible.  If you keep skimming through the thread, few dealers had any idea what we were talking about as far as pumping out the glycol, the Alde equipment to do this was rare and very expensive, and dealers seemed to want none of it, if they had heard of it at all.  The thread jumps to 2019, and in a couple of years, the owners here had figured out the entire Alde glycol plumbing, and have worked out a DIY Glycol exchange process using simple tools and common parts.

It is hard to say how many owners of pre-2020 trailers have done "routine" 2 year changes.  Since this issue didn't get "hot" until 2018 or so, and the Alde has been in the trailers since 2014, I would say very few.  The rarity of the "Alde pump" and dealers who couldn't deal with any of this, the merger of Alde/Truma, etc, all worked against a lot of glycol exchanges for the years from 2014 to 2020.

Not sure when the first "corrosion of the Alde convectors" reports started.  No matter what, despite what you see here and over in the FB pages: it still "seems" to be a rare phenomenon. 

The response from NuCamp and Alde is complete silence on any of this.  Except "change the glycol".  They are basically "blaming the victim" (my opinion, of course.)

It is pretty hard to jump into a conversation that has been going on for years here.  I urge everyone new to this issue to...look over this 5 year long, 27 page thread.  You will see the expertise and experience of people with real world Alde experience who tore the Alde apart and learned as much as possible about it  There are many theories and ideas brought forth about the glycol, inhibitors, etc.  Some are dead ends.  There are a few comments with "general summaries of what we know" included in the thread.  You don't have to read every comment, but you will see how much work went into the DIY Exchange.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/2665/changing-out-the-alde-fluid/p1

The bottom line is: we don't know if the Rhomar will prevent corrosion better than the Century.  We don't know if 2 year change cycles prevent corrosion.  Or coating the convectors.  We just do not know.

pthomas745

@bengezac do you have a link to the NuCamp bulletin you showed us above?  (Thanks!)  I just went around and around on their bulletin page, and cannot find it to get a link.

bengezac

I am a dealer in Canada, so I receive them through Nucamp directly 

pthomas745

So...not available to owners? 

Yoshi_TAB

@pthomas745

Hi,  I follow what you are saying and have read most of the 27 page thread and totally agree with your bottom line statement.

But, when a well respected owner puts out a video, that says this is the "achilles heal" of the trailer and suggests what needs to be done to prevent this corrosion, independant of year , type of fluid, or maintenance performed, to me, that opens an entire can of worms for current owners or potential owners of what to do. 

 I am able to follow the technical jargon and approaches in the video and thread.    But many can not  and that leaves them wondering what to do or not to do.  That is why I suggested coming up with a set of recommendations.   And,  doing nothing (beyond fluid changes) can certainly be a recommendation. The video certainly implies that one needs to go beyond just changing the fluid to prevent this corrosion, that may or may not happen.


R/  

tybladesmith

I thought you all would like to see a letter sent to Truma on T@bbers behalf. 4/28/2021 Both Alde/Truma and NuCamp seem to be ducking the issues listed in this letter.

pak

I have a CS-S and there are two convectors. Both of the convectors have moulded hose loops and have a straight on fit. All of the other connections are straight with no obvious side pressure. During my last glycol change I looked at the convectors and had no sign of corrosion. On my next glycol change I will treat stubb ends with some kind of protective coating and be done with it. I think the conductors should have had some kind of corroson protection from the get go. I don't know if I will change to rhomar or not. It seems high priced and harder to acquire than Century. Hopefully the supply issues will improve.

Slackers

@pak what model year CS-S do you have? BTW, your observations and my approach going forward are exactly the same as you have noted.

ScottG

Yoshi_TAB said:

...
Can we set up a "team" of folks to create a set of consice recommendations of what we know today.  I realize it may change based on addtional observations or data.    Maybe you have and I didn't see it yet in the many previous posts, but is there a chance NuCamp would help?

Also, I read in a few posts that some of you reached out to Alde and or NuCamp on this issue, but I never saw (or got to yet) if  a responce was received.  
...

@Yoshi_TAB, there has never been a consensus regarding the best practice for dealing with this issue, and given the nature of internet forums there likely won't be. This is probably in large part because there has never been a clear explanation of exactly what is causing it. Deferred maintenance, glycol type, age, use, lack of grounding, lack of a sacrificial anode, and incompatible materials have all been implicated at some time, but none of these seem to correlate with the appearance of the problem and are at best just plausible guesses.

Truma/Alde and nuCamp have not offered much of substance either. (I've contacted both at various times, as have others.) I'm not suggesting this is any sort of cover-up or conspiracy--it's quite possible they are scratching their heads over the issue the same way we are--but nobody's talkin' either way. I am personally not convinced that the switch to Rohmer and the recommended grounding wire are any more than hopeful guesses as well, but with those changes being implemented on new units fairly recently, it may take some time to before a compelling conclusion can be made.

pak

Slackers, I have a 2017.

fstop32

I did switch to Rhomar when I totally rebuilt my system, at that point it was easy to make the change.  I purchased a 5gal bucket from T/A and after removing the convector from the electrical bench area to reduce heat my system only took 2.5 gallons to fill.  My next glycol change will use up the remaining 2.5 gallons but when it comes time to change it after that if the price of the Rhomar hasn't settled down some I'll be switching back to the Century product (and continue to change every 2 years).

Maple_Geek

For what it's worth, I just ordered 4L of Rhomar fuild for $15.95/L Canadian dollar.
That price doesn't seem all that unreasonable but maybe it was cheaper before?

db_cooper

I've been away from the forum for a bit, but watched Mark Turney's 2 videos since I had discovered my corrosion issue 2 years ago. 

Just a quick recap on our 2015 trailer:
I did partial gravity fills annually, replacing about 1 gallon each year,  at the time thinking that would be good enough,  but of course not expecting the stubs to corrode from the outside.

In spring 2021, I discovered the hose bulges and disassembled everything.  I cleaned the hoses and connectors much like in Mark's video and coated the outside with JB Weld, as I had it on hand.   I also double clamped everything with the screw type hose clamps.  I did not do any research into compatibility with JB Weld, but figured it was a hail mary at best.  

So far I am not seeing any return of the bulges, and no leaks.  

I'm debating whether to disassemble again for this year's flush and coat with Miracle Paint, or to just do a full flush and go.  I do not plan on ever switching to Rhomar, as I don't think the fluid was the real culprit.  My 02c.

Denny16

Maple_Geek said:

For what it's worth, I just ordered 4L of Rhomar fuild for $15.95/L Canadian dollar.
That price doesn't seem all that unreasonable but maybe it was cheaper before?

Century TF-1 transfer fluid is now $49 a gallon.  At 15.95/liter that makes Rhomar about $58 a gallon, not much difference in price for reportedly better performance and protection.  The expensive bit is the initial cost of labor to flush out the old Century fluid to prep the Alde system for the new Rhomar fluid.  

Once you get past this cost, the bi-annual change out is not much difference in cost, less the. $10 a gallon, or about $30 to $35 more over the cost of the Century fluid, for enough Rohmar fluid (3.5 gal) to do the bi-annual change out.
 Cheers 

pthomas745

At Camping World, the Century glycol is still at the price we paid for a long time at Amazon. 26.99.

https://www.campingworld.com/century-heat-transfer-fluid-yellow-gallon-127413.html?fbclid=IwAR3DNiInHZvmrGd-bbjUKiXZMrYICCv066Y6GhTLh5GxKX9aftgQX_x0ZHw

Something I learned a few weeks ago over at the Aqua Hot web page: they consider all of the "colors" of the Century brand to be...exactly the same stuff. 

Denny16

Thomas, Amazon has the current price at $49 a gallon for Centru TF-1 fluid.  Have you tried placing an order at Camping World, there listed price shown on line might be out of date.  Also, the link you posted is not for the TF-1 version of Century, this makes a difference, and it is a different formula from what I have been told.
 Cheers 

Mobean

Truma in Elkhart, IN quoted Alde Antifreeze (Rhomar) $239/5 gal bucket or $76/gal jug.  Shipping extra.

Denny16

Check with your local TaB dealer, I think nüCamp is selling the Rhomar for less than the Truma quote.  

Cheers 

TimandLaurie

My Tab 400 2022 will be two years old this June 2024. So I have been researching changing the Rhomar glycol on this site and airstream site. Here is what I found out so far. Rhomar water part number RGRTU5005 that last number stands for 5 gal has been around a long time used alot in solar systems. It can be bought at local HVAC suppliers for 140 for 5 gal. Rhomar water will list suppliers on their site. As far as the reason for the switch Truma said the PH of yellow glycol was  8 to 9. The PH of Rhomar is 7 to 8. Doesnt sound like a lot but my theory is the high alkalinity caused oxidation of the al tubing on the outside under the rubber tubing because of air getting in there. As far as having it changed Nucamp wanted 500 and Truma wanted 600. Note my Tab came with Rhomar glycol. My Tab 400 also came with double drain and fill tee located under the driver side tire. Truma sells a very expensive fill and drain pump that attaches to this tee but Nucamp does not have it. They pretty much use the method described on this site for the DIY.

The Tab 400 holds about 3.5 gal of glycol. I am going to use the existing pump in the Aldi to

pull in the new glycol and push out the old thru this  tee. I will let you know how it goes and give more details if it works.

ScottG

I'm looking forward to your report, @TimandLaurie. If you haven't seen it already, check out @Robermcm's comment here with some tips on using the bottom fill method.

manyman297

@TimandLaurie Interested to see if the Alde pump will work in lieu of an external pump. If it does that would be a bit hilarious that Alde sells a pump for the exchange when the Alde unit itself could do the same thing.

cafyrman

So has anyone with Rhomar fluid reported corrosion?  I just found bulges yesterday, so am starting research on how much to rebuild and whether to switch to Rhomar or stick with Century.

My trailer is a 2018 400, so I'm going to post most of my process that's 400 specific in that thread.

Freespirit

@cafyrman, my current Alde reservoir after I did a complete fluid exchange from Century to Rhomar 2 years ago. More discussion under “Corrosion of my Alde convectors” heading in this forum. 

AnOldUR

cafyrman said:

So has anyone with Rhomar fluid reported corrosion? 

Freespirit said:

@cafyrman, my current Alde reservoir after I did a complete fluid exchange from Century to Rhomar 2 years ago.

I'd be more interested in hearing from someone who's Alde system came with the Rhomar glycol from the factory. There should be some out there that are due for the two year replacement.

Maple_Geek

I have 2022 TAB320S that came with the Rhomar glycol. I have yet to do the replacement but I do not see any bulging anywhere. I'm aware of 2 radiators (back and passenger side). I do not know where the location of a 3rd one is (if any). There is no radiator under the driver side seat in my TAB.

AnOldUR

@Maple_Geek I'm guessing that all the expansion tanks have the aluminum sleeves that @Freespirit pictured above. Would it be possible to look into the tank and see if you have similar corrosion?

Trying a little experiment. I just put two strips of aluminum in separate glasses of glycol. One with fresh Century and the other with fresh Rhomar. It will be interesting to see if there are any differences in corrosion over the next months or years.

Maple_Geek

@AnOldUR my expansion tank is annoyingly located behind the cassette toilet in the small bathroom and is not at all easy to reach. When I finally find some time to do this operation I'll see if there is a way to remove it and look.

cafyrman

Freespirit said:

@cafyrman, my current Alde reservoir after I did a complete fluid exchange from Century to Rhomar 2 years ago. More discussion under “Corrosion of my Alde convectors” heading in this forum. 

Well, that's annoying.  I did see that thread, but it's one of about 75 pages of threads I've read in the past 24 hours.