New RV - Lithium Battery not working after service repair

DustD

Hello, I have new 2023 TAB320 with factory Lithium.  I had a fan issue (cover break) that got repaired under warranty today.  After bringing RV home, I realized that I can't power anything with battery (batteries are fully charged).  I had to believe the dealership turned something off as it worked perfectly before repair.  They said they only changed fan and connected the 2 wires (they replaced entire Fan).  When plugged into power everything works and all the stats on the Victron app look correct. Wondering if something easy I should check before I haul it back to the dealership.  Fortunately, dealership is only 20 minutes from house but still a hassle.  Thanks

ScottG

Check all the fuses between the battery and the converter. Assuming things haven't changed much over the years (and someone please correct me if I am wrong) there is a 30A in-line fuse at the battery positive terminal, and another 30A fuse in the converter labelled "battery charger" or something similar. There is also a 40A battery reverse polarity protection fuse in the converter that you should check.

(And of course, your battery switch needs to be ON, but I assume you've got that covered!)

elbolillo

DustD said:

Hello, I have new 2023 TAB320 with factory Lithium.  I had a fan issue (cover break) that got repaired under warranty today.  After bringing RV home, I realized that I can't power anything with battery (batteries are fully charged).  I had to believe the dealership turned something off as it worked perfectly before repair.  They said they only changed fan and connected the 2 wires (they replaced entire Fan).  When plugged into power everything works and all the stats on the Victron app look correct. Wondering if something easy I should check before I haul it back to the dealership.  Fortunately, dealership is only 20 minutes from house but still a hassle.  Thanks

First, check to ensure the battery disconnect in the storage area is in the on position. Also, check the Gloso breaker next to the battery disconnect to ensure it hasn't tripped.

DustD

Appreciate it.  The pics in this thread is my setup.  Factory Lithium Setups in the new 2023 320 models (vanillacommunity.com)
Definitely have battery switch on, it's inside next to the door.  I'll check the other things that you both mention as well.

MuttonChops

@DustD;  Since you already know the main Cut-Off Switch is On.

Good chance the Gloso Breaker was tripped / turned Off.
Breaker is under the Drivers side bench seat.

That situation would match your failure mode.

edit:  Above statement is incorrect - - I mis-read my own wiring diagram

Attached PDF has a more recent Best Guess on the '23 Lit Package Wiring.

DustD

I just checked and the Gloso Breaker was fine (I toggled it anyway).  I noticed that the VE Bus Smart Dongle only shows up my Victron app when on shore power now also.  If the Gloso Breaker was tripped would shore power still be working and powering everything?  Thank you.

Bayliss

@DustD, not sure if it helps, but here are a couple discussions about the Gloso Breaker that may be of interest (focuses on the "accidental" tripping of the breaker):

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/16047/reports-on-gloso-circuit-breakers-blowing

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/185252#Comment_185252

If not a tripped/bad Gloso breaker (seems unlikely it is defective since it previously worked), or a blown fuse (including the 40A "reversed polarity" fuse, as already suggested by @ScottG), I would be looking for a disconnected wire, including a ground wire, close to the battery.  A wire could have pulled out its wire connector.

If you delivered the trailer to the dealer with the battery installed and the disconnect switch "On," then it seems likely that they would have either disconnected the battery terminal cable(s) or at least turned "Off" the disconnect switch.  Maybe call them and ask them to confirm with the person who did the repair that the ONLY wires they disconnected were at the fan itself and that they confirmed the fan worked on 12V after they replaced the fan.  If so, ask why they would not have disconnected the 12V power before replacing the fan (at least for safety reasons, but also to avoid blowing a fuse.)

One other troubleshooting step might be to use a jumper wire to temporarily bypass the Gloso breaker to see if that gets you power.  I can't see why you couldn't do that, but hopefully others will chime in if I am wrong about that.

Be sure to disconnect the 120V AC power before doing any troubleshooting of the 12V system.

MuttonChops

DustD said:
. . .  If the Gloso Breaker was tripped would shore power still be working and powering everything? 

No, if shore power is On and the Gloso Breaker Tripped then you would have 120VAC in the cabin but no 12VDC.
My earlier comment (above) was incorrect, sorry.
But no harm in resetting the Gloso.

DustD said:
. . . noticed that the VE Bus Smart Dongle only shows up my Victron app when on shore power . . .

That is weird.  The Smart Dongle is powered directly from the batteries . . . guess if batteries were dead (or not connected to ground) the Smart Dongle could only 'work' when the MulitPlus Convertor is on . . .  As @Bayliss said, maybe the service folks disconnected some battery circuit grounds. So really inspect the battery compartment for 'flying wires'.

Another thing to try - - for data - - is to observe the Smart Dongle LED Lights.
How do they change with shore power off/on ?

If nothing pops-up as the issue perhaps you should fully power down the trailer; no shore power, battery switch to Off, and let it sit for 3-5 minutes, then try powering up the Battery only (cut-off switch on), maybe some digital control is stuck and a hard power off reset might clear it.

DustD

Thank you.  I checked all for loose wires and all looked good.  I spoke to dealer earlier they said they didn't touch anything (not even disconnecting battery when changing fan).  The LED status on the Smart Dongle only blinked blue on the Bluetooth when on shore power.  When off shore power EVERYTHING was off and dark (like a dead battery).  It feels like something tripped somewhere but I don't know where.  I'll probably take it back to dealer although I don't have a good feeling that they are that knowledgeable on lithium setups. My warranty replacement Fan-tastic vent replacement was a couple models lower level than the original I noticed today.  :(

I wonder if this AIMS power be tripped somehow?  Not sure how to read it.

pthomas745

What is the Victron app telling you?  Is the battery charging while on shore power?  Or only on solar?  Have you opened up those two 30 amp fuse holders on the battery themselves?

DustD

It looks like my Inline Fuse was blown (likely when they installed fan)?  It's tricky to see this clearly without taking a picture since it faces away.  You agree this is what "blown" would look like and would be resulting in the issues I'm having?  Appreciate all the comments and help.

ScottG

Wow, that Lithium set-up is a lot more complicated than my old school 2015. I even had to install my own battery cut-off. However, I still maintain that a fuse/breaker somewhere between the battery and 12V distribution block is the likely culprit. Swapping out a device--particularly if the battery was still connected--seems like a recipe for blowing something. And while I'm not familiar with that AIMS fuse, it certainly looks boogered-up in your photo. I would expect it to look more like one of these:

pthomas745

Sure looks like it.  The "Stinger" fuse is protecting the Multiplus...(I'm guessing).  But what would make a 150 amp fuse blow?  If the Multiplus is now the converter/charger/inverter, this would make sense that your 12V power isn't working.

The fuse is not hard to replace (in theory). 

There has been only 1 other report of a blown Stinger fuse but that was for an AIMS 1200W inverter in a 400.  That owner had tried a hair dryer that "might" have pushed the "surge" power rating of the AIMS.

Don't want to "blame the victim" here, since we are still learning about these setups: had you tried anything interesting running off 12V power with the inverter?

MuttonChops

In reference to AIMS inline ANL Style Fuse.
I have no direct experience with that style of fuse, picture does not look promising.

Do you have an ohmmeter so you can remove the fuse and test it for continuity?

The AIMS inline fuse being Open would explain the Shore Power OK but no Battery only power.  However, if our wiring diagram estimate is correct that would not explain why the Smart Doogle has different LED Status when shore power is on/off.

Also, if AIMS inline fuse is Open - - - there was a very high current event.  Which is puzzling as to when and why.

Bayliss

@DustD, I too am not familiar with the AIMS inline fuse, but it sure appear to be fried.  If so, since everything was working before you took your trailer to the dealer, they are (in my view) responsible for having caused that, so make sure you do not pay for any repairs that may be necessary.

You should demand that your fan again be replaced with the identical or better fan.  Not an earlier version.  You deserve (under warranty) to receive what you originally paid for.  Makes me wonder if the fan wiring is contributing to the problem.  You may want to check the wiring there.  Did the dealer say the fan worked after they replaced it?  Did you test the fan before leaving the dealer?  

Also, you indicated that the battery is fully charged.  How have you confirmed that?  Did you check it with a meter?  (Since it is new, it should be good, but it would help for troubleshooting purposes if you can independently confirm a full charge........again, while disconnected from shore power.)

DustD

Thanks.  This unit has had one day test camping since bought and it was just me.  I've actually not plugged anything into it yet besides a laptop and phone charger. Battery was working the day before I took to dealer so it's obvious to me this occurred when they replaced the fan.  Unfortunately, I suspect they don't plan to assist with this fix (fuse replacement). They warranty replaced my FanTastic Vent that originally had a "thermostat option" with a lower model vent without thermostat (they said that's what MFR sent). Not sure what type of high current event could happen by them changing out the fan.  Not a great first experience with dealer or warranty.

How do I know this is a 150 amp for replacement?  I'm not that savvy with this stuff (hence the reason I bought the lithium package vesion vs DIY)

I do have an ohmmeter I believe so I may try to figure that out later to test.

I believe this is the AIMS fuse for 150 - Inline fuse 150 AMP Fuse - AimsPower (aimscorp.net)

Thanks for the comments.

DustD

Bayliss said:

@DustD, I to am not familiar with the AIMS inline fuse, but it sure appear to be fried.  If so, since everything was working before you took your trailer to the dealer, they are (in my view) responsible for having caused that, so make sure you do not pay for any repairs that may be necessary.

You should demand that your fan again be replaced with the identical or better fan.  Not an earlier version.  You deserve (under warranty) to receive what you originally paid for.  Makes me wonder if the fan wiring is contributing to the problem.  You may want to check the wiring there.  Did the dealer say the fan worked after they replaced it?  Did you test the fan before leaving the dealer?  

Also, you indicated that the battery is fully charged.  How have you confirmed that?  Did you check it with a meter?  (Since it is new, it should be good, but it would help for troubleshooting purposes if you can independently confirm a full charge........again, while disconnected from shore power.)

Thanks.  I agree with you and deciding how much I want to push this with them.  They are only 20 minutes from my house, but I don't have a lot of free time to deal with it.  I agree something happened while they were wiring the new fan that caused most likely.   I did test the fan before I left dealership.  They went back in building after dropping off RV and I hooked up to truck and then tested.  The problem was I had already hooked up to my truck before testing so it was actually pulling power from Truck battery, so it worked.  I didn't realize the battery issue until I got home and tried the fan again on battery alone.  I noticed the outside power cap wasn't completely closed when I picked up the unit which tells me they also connected to shore power during install.   I have confirmed full battery charge with my Victon app.

ScottG

Yes, definitely test the fuse first. Most multimeters have a simple continuity setting (which is based on resistance). Touch the probes to each side of the fuse. If it beeps, the fuse is able to pass current. If it's silent, the fuse is blown.

DustD

Blown fuse confirmed.  Also confirmed is 200amp.

pthomas745

200 amp!  Well..they are pretty common fuses. 

https://www.amazon.com/Stinger-SPF52200-ANL-Fuses-Chrome/dp/B001JQEYQA

KK1L

By the way you can test this in-situ (while in circuit) as well by measuring the voltage at each terminal to GND. If you see nearly the same voltage at both, then the fuse is okay. However the peak through the window is obvious. Similarly if the window was silvery or black you could conclude it was blown as well. Good catch.