Musings of a tire blowout.

ChrisK

So, we were happily driving from Chandler, AZ down to Tucson to do some camping with our daughter in her 400 (her Youtube channel is Amelia Away if any of you want to follow her travels). We were in the right lane and a semi was passing us and something got louder. We thought "that semi has a weird noise". A second later, our low tire sensor started beeping rapidly. Uh oh. Pulled off to the side of the road and found the left side (facing the travel lanes - why is it always that way) was blown out and water was pouring out of the Alde cold water drain. Uh oh again. Managed to get the tire changed with the spare after fooling around with a couple jacks. Pulled off at the next exit which would have been too far to nurse the camper to on the flat and assessed the underside. No obvious damage to the wheel well or surrounding structure. Phew. Went inside the camper (Max S - What is called a 320 now) and looked in the Alde compartment. No damage. Phew again. The vibration from the tire going flat must have vibrated the release valve up. Push it down and now that we are at the campsite, all is good. No leaks. Called a Discount Tire near the campground and they worked us in. We were in and out in a little over an hour. Great service. We replaced all three tires to make sure all was good. We camp a lot so this was good for peace of mind. 

Some thoughts. 
Bottle jack. A while ago, I bought a small bottle jack so it would fit under the frame with the tire flat. Guess what? For a 320 (not sure on the 400), If your bottle jack is small enough to fit under the frame when the tire is flat, it is nowhere near big enough to lift your trailer high enough to get the tire off. If you are relying on a bottle jack, test it by letting the air out of a tire and see if it fits and lifts high enough. 
Don't just assume the jack in your tow vehicle will work. The scissor jack in our jeep was too tall to get under the frame with the flat.
Buy a scissor jack. One that collapses down very low but still has enough up travel. These typically have more "throw" than a bottle jack.
Hindsight, I thought about but didn't use the method of unhooking the camper, lowering the nose all the way, dropping the rear corner legs down then raising the nose. Figured it would have been a huge pain to do that but, in reality, would have been much easier and much more stable. As it was, I used our bottle jack to get it high enough to get the Jeep's scissor jack under the frame. Then I jacked it up the rest of the way. 
Test your jack. The release valve on my bottle jack needed persuasion to release when it was no longer needed. A jack will do you no good if it does not work.
Weirdest part was that the inner inch of the tire tread had come off and wrapped itself around the axle. Had to do some yanking and threading to get it out. Safety first of course so I put the spare tire on the ground under the frame.

And the biggest thought. ALWAYS USE TIRE PRESSURE SENSORS. Had that not gone off, it would have probably taken us longer to recognize the issue. We were being passed by a semi so we though that was what was happening. Had we continued on for even another minute, the tire could have come apart more and done serious damage to the camper. I've seen horror stories of this. Get one that shows pressure and temperature and alarms with variances. If a tire is getting too hot, it is probably failing and it can blow. If you lose pressure slowly and don't know it, it can blow. I think ours was a rapid blowout since it was just a couple seconds between the odd sound and the sensor going off. The tires had lots of tread and no odd wear. Some sort of rapid failure or we ran over something. 

Be prepared. I know some just use AAA and other services, but for those that don't, make sure you tire changing solution will work. Don't just assume. Like I said above, let the air out of one of your tires and make sure you can change that tire with what you have. 

manyman297

If you have an Andersen leveler you can drive the flat tire up on that to raise it up a bit to get a taller jack under there. Somebody here suggested that a while back and thought it was a pretty brilliant idea. 

Tabaz

Don't assume your tow vehicle lug nut wrench matches the T@B lug nuts.  Mine do not.  I always carry a breaker bar with the appropriate sized socket for the T@B lug nuts.  Thankfully, my tow vehicle scissors jack works with the T@B.

Yoshi_TAB

Hi, 

All good things to think about.

On another note to consider...when/if using aftermarket TPMS sensors for your TAB, make sure your valve stems are metal and not rubber.  The weight of the sensor on the end of a stem (if using that type vs. internal to rim) will cause a rubber stem to flex during high speed rotation, resulting in an unexpected failure of the stem.  You can buy motorcycle after market sensors in pairs of two, but consider changing out to metal stems. 

SLJ

You're actually lucky. The wheel wells in the T@Bs are just plastic and could easily get torn apart with a blowout and take out all the plumbing and electrical inside the compartment around them. One of the things I don't like about the T@Bs.

ChrisK

Tabaz said:

Don't assume your tow vehicle lug nut wrench matches the T@B lug nuts.  Mine do not.  I always carry a breaker bar with the appropriate sized socket for the T@B lug nuts.  Thankfully, my tow vehicle scissors jack works with the T@B.

Good point. I was going to put that in too but forgot. I have a collapsible 4 way one that worked like a dream. 

ChrisK

Yoshi_TAB said:

Hi, 

All good things to think about.

On another note to consider...when/if using aftermarket TPMS sensors for your TAB, make sure your valve stems are metal and not rubber.  The weight of the sensor on the end of a stem (if using that type vs. internal to rim) will cause a rubber stem to flex during high speed rotation, resulting in an unexpected failure of the stem.  You can buy motorcycle after market sensors in pairs of two, but consider changing out to metal stems. 

We have rubber ones. Have for years and I won't switch to metal. Metal has no give. Rubber will give a little more before just breaking off. Just my opinion. 

ChrisK

SLJ said:

You're actually lucky. The wheel wells in the T@Bs are just plastic and could easily get torn apart with a blowout and take out all the plumbing and electrical inside the compartment around them. One of the things I don't like about the T@Bs.

Yup. Like I said, that's why the TPMS system is great. It immediately warned me when I had an issue and allowed me to get slowed down fast before the tire came completely apart. 

Tabaz

Chris - what brand do you have?  It seems I have to buy a new system every year or so because they simply stop working.

ChrisK

Tabaz said:

Chris - what brand do you have?  It seems I have to buy a new system every year or so because they simply stop working.

I looked and couldn't find a brand. We've had it for several years and last I looked, it has been replaced by a newer model. We got this one for Amelia and so far, so good.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009BE069Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

tabiphile

To each their own, but a scissor jack is far from a safe and reliable way to lift a trailer. The only advantage they offer over a bottle jack is that they have a lower profile and as much throw. They still suffer from a tendency to be very tippy. The base they sit on is sensitive to how level the ground they are being used upon is. I would never recommend a scissor jack to anyone for lifting a trailer. If you ever had one of these fold up, twist and tip over, you would never recommend them.
The only jack that is properly safe and that has adequate lift is a floor jack. These should be placed upon a flat surface (I carry a small sheet of plywood) and used in conjunction with jack stands... Yes, they are bigger, heavier, not as "convenient as either the scissor jack or the bottle jack, but at the least, they are safe and can get the job done. There have been plenty of threads here that included specific recommendations for good and quasi compact floor jacks. Many of those included discussion about not using bottle or scissor jacks and also mentioned taking a deflated flat tire into consideration. 

ChrisK

In a perfect world, yes. Problem is many don't have the room to carry one. They are bulky and heavy. Better to have something rather than nothing because they are too big to carry.
On the scissor jack vs bottle jack thing, if you can't get a bottle jack under your frame, they are worthless. If your bottle jack fits under the frame WITH a flat tire, then it doesn't lift high enough. Also worthless. You can do things to help stabilize the camper when changing a tire like lower the stabilizers, chock the tires, etc. 

bergger

I carry a floor jack with me that fits under the 400 just fine.  I also carry a few pieces of cut 2x6 board to use if necessary.  Yes they can be super heavy and bulky.  The one I use at home is one I would never travel with as it is extremely heavy and bulky.  However, I have provided a link to the jack I carry.  It all very easily fits in the passenger side storage compartment of the 400, along with all our other camping stuff, dutch oven, two camp chairs, tool bag and many other odds and ends.  The jack weighs only 20lbs and is very compact for a floor jack.  I definitely feel better jacking up the trailer with this floor jack vs the trucks scissor jack.  If I'm at home I will put jack stands under the frame of the trailer as a safety measure just in case the jack fails or the trailer falls off.  When traveling if necessary to jack up the trailer I always lower the stabilizers on the lifted side as an added safety measure as well, as I do not carry jack stands with me.

https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive/jacks-jack-stands/floor-jacks/2-ton-compact-trolley-jack-64874.html


The most important thing is to think about changing a tire before it needs to happen and get what works for you.  Whether a scissor jack, floor jack or bottle jack.  Test it out in at your house to make sure your tools all fit, the jack fits and you can do it safely.  

dsfdogs

@bergger have you tested this jack if the tire is flat? Thank you for the product suggestion.

jkjenn

I had a tire blowout in October on I-80 in Iowa. With the number of miles I drive, I knew it was inevitability, so I wasn't shocked or alarmed. I do visual inspections when I travel and monitor my tire pressure, but still had no warning. My TPMS never had a chance to go off.

Thankfully - no damage to the TAB!

Good Sam sent a guy, who had changed a tire on another TAB, so he knew what to do. Thankfully, a tire store down the road had the right size in stock and after an afternoon waiting in their lot, I was on my way.

For the record, I was running Goodyear Endurance tires.

dsfdogs

@jkjenn did the tire store have any insight on what could have caused the blow out?

jkjenn

dsfdogs said:

@jkjenn did the tire store have any insight on what could have caused the blow out?

Not really. They just said sometimes it happens. 

ChrisK

jkjenn said:

dsfdogs said:

@jkjenn did the tire store have any insight on what could have caused the blow out?

Not really. They just said sometimes it happens. 

Yup. Same as ours. 

bergger

dsfdogs said:

@bergger have you tested this jack if the tire is flat? Thank you for the product suggestion.

No.  When I tested it the tire was full of air.  The jack will lift a maximum of 12 3/8".   The reason I carry some pieces of 2x6" lumber is to allow me to raise it higher if necessary due to the flat tire or the terrain.   When I tested it last spring I honestly can't remember if I need to use a piece of 2x6 or not.  I do not believe I did as I do remember the jack fit under the jack point and lifted the trailer just fine.   Once our long 7 month winter ends I'll test it again with a full tire and a deflated one.  I also plan of dropping the spare to check its condition and top it off with air.  

Maxcamp

Several automotive wheeled jacks I've tried would not clear the side of wheel when positioned under the lift point.

 I carry the same pint-sized harbour freight (aka Torin, Big Red) jack on trips as @bbberger.   Fits deflated wheel.
However it does not quite lift high enough on my boondock on uneven ground.
Hence carry  a necessary pair of 2x12x3 ft boards strapped to truck cap.
  
Tool kit includes half inch drive torque wrench, pipe for breaker bar action, socket, spare acorn nut, spare valve stems and caps,  and small bottle of hand degreaser. 
Also an infrared thermometer bought during our brake adjustment saga.

If you pull a wheel, check your electric  brake wires for dangerous slack that could abrade on tire!

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/17161/why-did-why-will-your-brakes-suddenly-fail-on-one-side-lifesafety-issue#latest

Based on continuing 2023 postings about new trailers, nucamp continues to sell mismatched diameter spare tire rims and hoist mechanism end fitting. (Since 2020).
One must grind the steel dongle on hoist or the opening in rim, to remedy inability to winch tire up fully and parallel to underside of frame.

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/15120/fixing-spare-tire-cable-hanger-tip#latest






  

rh5555

This blowout story got me to thinking about TPMS systems, but the more I read the more uncertain I get.  Does anyone out there have real-world experience of a system that:

• Works reliably over the distance from trailer to cab - seems like one with a signal booster may be needed??
  
• Responds fast enough to be useful - many seem to report good pressure minutes after a tire has blown out??
• Doesn't cause valve stems to break off - is this really a problem??
• Is currently available
• Doesn't cost an arm an a leg

There are a myriad of systems out there from $30 to $1000, but if they don't work effectively then what's the point?

AnOldUR

I've been looking at the motorcycle (two wheel) version for just the trailer, but have the same questions as you @rh5555.

Anyone have comments on how they work? Is the signal strong enough to reach the tow vehicle? 

dsfdogs

I've been using the TireMinder Solar Powered TPMS (4 tires) since 2019, first on my 320 and now 400. (The price seems to have gone up)! I chose the 4 tire version to give me two extras. Thankfully I've never had a flat/blow out so cannot attest to responsiveness. However, I can certainly watch the temperature and pressure fluctuate as I drive and only occasionally is there a delay.

TireMinder recommends metal valve stems, which I've had installed at Discount Tire on Goodyear Endurance.

TireMinders come with signal boosters which they recommend using. On the 320 with plastic middle tub, and 4Runner combo, I did not need the booster. Once I added the platform and aluminum center tub and side tubs, transmission was intermittent. I did not want to install the booster on the frame and wire it to a 12v source. Instead, I placed my Goal Zero 1000 in the back of the 4Runner, taped the booster to the window, and attached the clips to the red/black 12v output ports and it worked great! No issues. Now with the 400 (with side tubs added)/F150 set up, I place the Goal Zero in the backseat with transmitter taped to back window. It works but occasionally have the delay-I think I'll try taping it to the top of the window this year. 

I use this to give me comfort; when I was new to towing, every slope on the road had me wondering if my tire was going flat. Now I can give a quick glance. I think this model of TPMS is on the lower end, and after five years, part of the screen is hard to see, but overall, I'm happy with it.

Mickerly

This will probably be unpopular. TPMS are an interesting gadget. They will let you know if your tires have low pressure. Pre-blowout warning is not likely. They don't check the tires, only the current pressure. They do give many people a piece of mind. To apply some balance to the marketing trends, people have successfully pulled trailers for over a hundred years by checking the pressure manually before beginning the day. I would rather look at the tire's condition and check the pressure in the morning than trust an electronic gadget that only lets you know the pressure is low.

dsfdogs

@Mickerly Every day before I travel, I visually check my tires and check tire pressure. I carry a Ryobi tire inflator if needed. The TPMS is an additional tool. It's not in lieu of proper pre-driving checks and protocol.

ChrisK

Always a good idea to check your tires. What TPMS does for you is alert you to when a tire is slowly losing air. A slow leak can lead to a blowout. It also alerts you if the tire temp is rising more than normal. This can be an indicator of a failing tire. They are not just for detecting blowouts. They have the potential to give you the indications that one may be imminent. 

ChrisK

We've been using TPMS for quite a number of years. They have alerted us to a slow leak once before. We have never had signal issues. These are designed for larger rigs and those are generally the ones that require the booster. We have also had rubber valve stems for years with no failures. Like I said above, I'd rather they deflect a little if you brush up against something rather than break. If rubber valve stems were so bad with these and there were lots of failures, the manufacture wouldn't be allowed to sell them. They recommend them for peace of mind. 

BridgerSunset

Our experience is with the Tireminder, for 3 seasons now.  1st season without the booster was too sporadic of a reliable signal to the front of my truck cab.  The last 2 years we hooked the booster up to our spare 12v battery in the tub....and it works very well now.  Have replaced TPMS batteries once in each tire.  Rubber stems show no fatigue.

My view is as @ChrisK above feels....that the TPMS may see a problem coming & save a high-speed event from ending up badly.  Just another step in managing risk.