Do I need a built in Electrical Management System?

CruiserCamperChris

At last years NuCamp gathering, more than one seminar told us the most important upgrade was to install an Electrical Management system, like the Progressive Industries SSP-50X RV Surge Protector. I have researched some threads on this fine forum, and wanted to make sure, before I went to the trouble and expense of installing one, to make sure what I already use isn't just as good. Since we bought our 2021 T@B 400 BDL 2 years ago, we have been using a 30amp SurgeGuard Model 44260. It is has 2100 "joules" of surge protection. 

1. this is what I am currently using....


2. This is the built in Progressive Industries one that costs $214, and looks a little involved to install. I don't even know where I would put it, under the bed?


3. This is another one made by Progressive Industries that just hangs on the post. Is it as good as the hard wired one? It is $168



4. and this is another brand that looks pretty good that is $68



Thank you for reading my post.

VictoriaP

Built in? No. The portable one from Progressive Industries has been used by many owners over the years. Built in is more convenient.

Personally, this isn’t something I’d cheap out on. Replacing your electrical system would cost you thousands, as would electrical damage to the Alde or fridge, and having a “hot skin” condition from being plugged in incorrectly could cause injury. Just my 2¢.

Here’s a thread with loads of opinions: https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/14473/ems-vs-surge-vs-nothing

MuttonChops

As @VictoriaP noted lots of opinions on this topic.

My 2¢ on the topic is:  What You Have Now if Fine.

Why . . . .

A]  What we RV'ers need to know is if the Park Power Pedestal is OK.
      The basic unit like you now own does that.

B]  In North America we have very good and stable power.
     While over voltage, under voltage events can happen it is very rare.

C]  I now have some 322 nights in my 320S with at least 80% of those at Public/Private Parks
     that provided 120VAC power.  In all those nights I have had one stop (2-night stay) with
     a bad power pedestal, the 30A outlet would not display 'good' . . . so I used the 20A outlet
     which was correctly wired or not broken.

In addition to the 30A Surge Protector and Pedestal Wiring unit (like yours) that I carry,  I also carry a simple 20A outlet tester and a "hot skin" probe . . . . all three units together cost far less than a fancy installed unit.

dsfdogs

I use the plug in Progressive Industries EMS you have pictured. You could compare the features of what you are currently using vs the Progressive version. It's more than a "surge protector". I've plugged it into several campsite posts and popped an error for reverse polarity. I had to use either the 20 amp or 50 amp with adaptors and/or the ranger fixed the wiring on the 30 amp. I also have a cable lock to lock it to the electrical post.

gkreitzburg

I got this model for our new 2023 400. Pricey, but I thought it was worth not having to worry about someone swiping it off the power pole - and it fit right behind the drawer under the bed. https://hughesautoformers.com/product/pwd30-epo-h/

bergger

I also use the plug in Progressive Industries EMS and have been happy with it.  No installation required and if I ever get a new T@b I can take it with me.  I lock mine to the pedestal with an old tool I had to use frequently in my previous life, a set of handcuffs.  

Sharon_is_SAM

Same here @bergger, except we use a cable lock instead of handcuffs😂

Slackers

We went with the Progressive Industries built-in with integrated display, model EMS-LMCHW30. It wasn't a difficult install, but I can't say any of the other options are bad. Similar to what @MuttonChops has written, we've never encountered a situation where it was needed. You may be fine with what you already use.

SLJ

The advantage to a built in EMS over the pole mount is it will also cover any problems with your cord or your connections after the pole and its not out in the weather or where it could be taken. That being said, we used a pole mount for a few years with no problem. A friend of ours did have his stolen though.

Just having a non-EMS surge though is not recommended since the biggest problems are low voltage, poor connections, and intermittent grounds. An EMS will cut the power automatically if any of those occur. A surge only will not.

bjn2

I installed the built-in EMS with the remote corded display. I went with that option because I prefer to take tasks off my checklist and have one less device to keep track of. But I would have gone with this other built-in model without the remote display. You really only need to see the status when something is wrong, and you have to look at the main box anyway to see the error codes. This version costs significantly less.

Binghi

Built-ins are great until they fail. Then you get no shore power unless you have a separate connection built into your system where you can bypass the failed EMS. That just happened to us in Mexico. We turned off the fridge and went the last three weeks without shore power. The EMS was so difficult to access deep behind a drawer that I gave up trying to repair it or figure out what went wrong. If we had a portable EMS conceivably we could’ve repaired it or bought a new one on the road.

Slackers

Good point @Binghi. A 3rd option for portable EMS recovery is to give up in disgust and not use any at all! 
The Progressive Industries models with remote display have a by-pass switch for use with generators. The LCHW30 doesn't have that.  One can find a simple remote bypass switch that gets wired to the EMS for generator usage. Also there's a diy hack we use with our generator that keeps the EMS happy.

Binghi

Good to know about the generator bypass switch, @Slackers. Might have to look into that.

Interestingly, there wasn’t that much difference in Mexico between the times the EMS worked and the times it didn’t. Reason being, the shore power was so wonky that when the EMS was working, it kept cutting the feed off: high voltage error, low voltage error, no ground detected, etc. Next trip to Baja we’re just going to boondock. Lots of sun down there, so that works.

Slackers

Here's the by-pass switch for EMS-LCHW30 (and LCHW50) units: https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-remote-bypass-switch-kit
Edit: We don't have this in our Tab, but it may be useful in a "pinch."

SLJ

My hardwired Progressive has a bypass switch on the remote display I mounted behind the TV. Flip it and the EMS is out of the circuit.

CruiserCamperChris

thank you all so very much. Very helpful. And this is a good video that helps to show all the advantages of a built in EMS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l69qKK6_jeI Most of the points made was posted here, but not all. I think I am leaning towards the built in hard wired Progressive Industries unit.

 I found an installation thread on this forum, but it is for a 320, not a 400. I know @SLJ has all his stuff under his bed which is easily accessible. I would hate to put it under a 400 bed, because it is so difficult to access, but will, of course, if that is the only place. Would I put it on the driver side of the camper, in there where the water pump is? Where should I locate the LED remote display on a 400?

gkreitzburg

CruiserCamperChris said:

thank you all so very much. Very helpful. And this is a good video that helps to show all the advantages of a built in EMS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l69qKK6_jeI Most of the points made was posted here, but not all. I think I am leaning towards the built in hard wired Progressive Industries unit.

 I found an installation thread on this forum, but it is for a 320, not a 400. I know @SLJ has all his stuff under his bed which is easily accessible. I would hate to put it under a 400 bed, because it is so difficult to access, but will, of course, if that is the only place. Would I put it on the driver side of the camper, in there where the water pump is? Where should I locate the LED remote display on a 400?

Our 23 T@B 400 has a drawer below the bed in the center. It fits comfortably behind that drawer.

Maxcamp

Do any of the plug-in devices check for Undervoltage?
One advantage to the hardwired EMS is Undervoltage protection to protect your circuit boards (Alde, A/C, fridge electronics.)   I can think of five instances over several seasons where I posted unsafe notices and taped the covers due to ungrounded services or loose connections.  Only one was physically full of water.
Undervoltage has triggered shutdown over a dozen times in three seasons.  Several sites were simply not usable due to severe undervoltage due to poor field wiring or neighboring sites all using their A/C.  We often see 50A rated large campers plugged into 30A or even 15A outlets and basically sucking the campground circuits dry.

I spot check shore power with a plug-in device first for polarity and grounding, then plug in the EMS-protected camper. 

If you are experienced with wiring Romex, siting the EMS between the camper power inlet and the Wefco is not hard.  On my 2021 had to move numerous haphazardly laid out wires and correct a great many electrical installation deficiencies.  


Photo of our 2021 320S driver bay after significant rewire after first trip:

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/182995/#Comment_182995

Digital readout installed on bath demising wall.  Pull the Alde control and use the 3x3" cutout to fish from.
The readout is a BRIGHT red LED, a real pain at night.  Since glued a plastic hinge atop the readout that I can simply flip down to cover it.

CruiserCamperChris

@Maxcamp8 yes, the Progress Industries plug in does shut down if the voltage is too low. That makes sense to install it behind the Waco, but my Wefco in my 400 is under that cabinet, under the stove. I have never worked with Rolex wire, no. Just regular wire. Is that a hurdle?

Maxcamp

The new Progressive PT-30x looks great.  I see it online for $168 to 223.  Why do all that rewiring when this plug-in does the same thing?  I don't believe it was available at the time I did my upgrade.


Unlike your home, you don't need a electrician license, permit, and inspection on the (potentially hazardous)120v wiring in your RV.  Manufacturers may voluntarily follow portions of the NEC but are scatty.  If you haven't done compliant 120/240v wiring (called Low Voltage in industry) on your house there are plenty of requirements and field know-how to safely wire something without risk of short, arc, conductor damage or pull-out on a bumpy ride.
Anyone who has not done code-compliant house wiring would be well advised to get experienced help.

subkron

@CruiserCamperChris In my 22 400 I installed behind my WFCO which is under the stove and under 2 drawers.  You remove the drawers and there is a panel over the WFCO that is removed.  Plenty of room back there but just a bit awkward sinc you need to reach in a bit, I screwed the EMS on the left side wall. I have the remote display unit and actually mounted that in the Nautilus panel that I access from the outside for two reasons. It is close to the shore power input to the T@B plus I don't need another LED/indictor/display in the T@B at night lol.  So far so good.   

Marceline

Just going to chime in to say that everyone uses their camper differently, so when buying expensive equipment, it's a good idea to take stock of your own situation. 

For people who mostly camp off the grid, it's hard to justify the expense of an EMS. I plug my camper into shore power a handful of times in a year. I have a circuit tester/surge protector and that's it for me. My camper is also more than 10 years old, and doesn't even have an Alde, so that also factors into my decision. In 5+ years I've never experienced lightning while camping (we just don't get lightning often in CA) and that's also a factor. If I knew a storm was coming I'd probably just disconnect from the pedestal. 

Mickerly

I agree with Marceline completely. We camp mostly hooked up in northern Texas and Oklahoma. Air conditioning in mandatory. Many larger RVs are running multiple AC units during the heat of the day. A power sag on the park grid is common. I've had the EMS disconnect us several times protecting the trailer from undervoltage. Lightening is a normal event. We have the onboard EMS pictured above, LCHW30. If I wanted to add the bypass switch, a kit is available for $35. It simply plugs in. Get what you need for your style of camping and the conditions you camp in. There isn't a one size fits all answer to your question.

Do understand you are using a surge protector. An EMS does a lot more things. For where you camp, a surge protector may be a perfect fit.

CruiserCamperChris

Thank you @subkron , I just read the installation instructions on the Progressive Ind. website. It says there are two ways to install, before the “transfer box” or after the “transfer box”. The latter installation works for both AC shore power and for generators. What do they mean by transfer box. Is that the Wefco Converter?

mona

I like my portable Progressive EMS. I can check the power on the pedestal before I even park or drag out the power cord. 

Jeannie 

CruiserCamperChris

@mona good point!

AnOldUR

@mona & @CruiserCamperChris We have the built-in Progressive Industries EMS, but also use one of these to test the pedestal for added protection.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088CWBBBM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Slackers

After reading these posts we decided to add the remote by-pass switch to our EMS-LCHW30. We only look to use it when powering our Tab with a generator. For $25 it makes the second outlet on the generator available for other use and should the EMS ever need to by-passed we can look the other way and do that. BTW the installation was way more difficult than it should have been. Our EMS didn't have the blue jumper-wire and the remote switch was installed backwards.   

Mickerly

The WFCO is the black box that holds the fuses and circuit breakers for the electrical system, also known as the "Power Converter." It does a number of other functions, but the fuses and circuit  breakers. On the '320, it is under the dinette. I'm not sure where it is in the '400. We took the easy way out and hired an electrician to install the unit.  

ColleenD2

AnOldUR. Thanks!