Driving Self Crazy What If'ing on Next Trailer & Tow Vehicle {long rambling}

MuttonChops

Disclaimer:  Love my 320S, There is Nothing Wrong with my 320S.
                   Love my TV, There is Nothing Wrong with my tow vehicle.
                   But - - - -   the " I want " not " I need " bug is working overtime..
                   Might be a combination of age and interest to 'spend it' before the (money dumb) Children get it . . . .

As for TV, recently decided to delay buying a new one as the size/configuration I want is not available in the brands I enjoy.
This means I've shifted to investing in major maintenance service . . . . while hoping the Big3 wake-up . . . .
Of course I'm still 'researching' knowing its for education not purchasing.

Travel Trailers.
Really like the 360 layout except for . . . .
       Cassette toilet, at my age dumping a 50ish # portable tank every couple of days is a deal-killer
       Weird kitchen - - - I might be able to learn/adjust but with the non-black tank why . . . .
Airstream, Oliver, Bigfoot . . .
        Way too big for me plus the premium price  *Bigfoot name comes from its large footprint (width)
Cortes . . . .
        Interesting but too boat-like interior that is less than ideal (for me) layout
        I have a boat and enjoy it - - - don't need a trailer like it
Scamp . . . .
        Another interesting one. New rigs also have a non-wood floor
Escape 17B . . . .
        Another interesting one. However layout seems off a bit.
Casita . . . .
        Must admit that if buying today it would be a Casita.
        Which one just got more complicated as there is now a cozy 15-footer.
        I like Casita's for their basic systems approach . . . nothing fancy or cutting edge

Then there is a TAB 400 . . .
        It has a black tank!
        While a bit big for my uses many solo travelers love it.
        Would require imagination to re-locate the TeleV and improve dinette seating comfort, add storage to bed area.
        And for a 400 or even 360 . . . installing SeeLevel Tank Sensors is doable but a pain and Shame on nüCamp for using KIB

Of course only the 360 & 400 have an Alde System and I truly enjoy how it works. Most of my camping is shoulder season and the quiet even heat is ideal.  But that in itself is not enough for me to feel only nüCamp as my next purchase.

As the Subject says - - - - I'm Going Crazy Thinking About This - - - -
                                          So I'm going boating for a few nights

MadCityJack

Good read…   I’m so ambivalent about keeping my 320, but if a buyer finds me, maybe.  I seem to have aged out of camping.   Despite myself, we have a camping trip planned early October with our nearly 7 year old grandson.  We’ll see how that shakes out.   Enjoy your boating!

bayernfan

Interesting post.  I've shopped all of the trailers you've listed above but haven't purchased yet. I'm 6' tall and I like standing without bumping my head, so Tab 320 is out.  I plan on being on the road for extended amounts of time so I want some extra space.  I won't be camping in snow or ice so I don't need a 4 seasons camper.

So it seemed like the Tab 400 was the right one.  I went and looked at a Tab 400 and it seemed like a quality camper.  The size felt just about right for someone doing extended boondocking.  

The Casita looked promising, particularly for the price. Their factory is only an hour away so I drove there to see them in person.  Compared to the Tab, the fit and finish are rough.  The showroom models had misaligned cabinetry and buttons that did not work.  The construction did not inspire any confidence in reliability.  I'm sure some will say things like misaligned cabinetry, unfinished edges, etc. are no big deal.  But for me, it was enough to say no thanks, I'll pay the premium for Nucamp.

So my search for a Tab 400 Boondock continues.

Sharon_is_SAM

@MuttonChops - I know you can retrofit a compost toilet into a 320 or 400.  What about retrofitting a black tank?  NuCamp probably has some older model shower pans to fit the bathroom area.  Still leaves you with the KIB.

Mickerly

The pre 2019 trailers had SeaLevel II tank sensors. I don't think any trailer comes fitted to an owner straight from the factory. An older '400 would be a good place to start a custom project trailer.
We must be in similar positions. My 'CS is a great camping trailer that has served us well for many years. My wife and I are looking for a more travel oriented trailer. For us, the '400 is a sideways move; less accessible storage and smaller galley than the 'CS but gain nice lavatory plus a dinette. Our Casita arrives mid-October.

SLJ

Love the cassette. If you think it's too heavy when full then don't use so much water when flushing and just don't wait till it's full. Had a black tank for many years. So much quicker, cleaner, and easier, and so many dumping options with a cassette. I don't ever want to go back to a black tank.

K_C_915

Holy cow, Mutton Chops is going through the same process as I am.

I am still serious about the Escape 17B, but looking at one in the SW is a pain, so I gave up for now. Getting one to Arizona may be more of an adventure than I want to take on.  It has its quirks too, but all trailers are compromises.

Casita is still in the running, but I have not looked at one yet. (Not easy here).  I have heard that you need to do a fair amount of work on the interior to get them to NuCamp level of fit and comfort, especially the window covers.  But they do have a great reputation and like NuCamp, incredible customer loyalty.

I wish NuCamp made the 360 more like the 320 with a 320 kitchen and front window.  That would be sweet! The kitchen is a deal killer for me right now.  So much potential with the larger trailer, but I see how they want to give the things the first time buyer wants, like a huge refrigerator and large, complicated, windows.

I don't like the idea of one gray/black tank combo. That rules out InTech and most of the Airstream trailers I would be comfortable with.

Two separate beds are a must for wife and I.  That is one of the strengths of the 320 design.  The Casita and Escape options mean we will use the dinette for a bed and the double bed for one person and storage. 

Great thread. I hope it gets more input and maybe nudges NuCamp to offer a 360 size trailer has the 320 front end.

dsfdogs

@K_C_915 re the Escape 17B, have you looked at their website for owners that will show you theirs? Back in '22 I found one near me, submitted my request and connected with them. I even put a deposit down and then went to Chilliwack to see them in person. I loved the feel of the 17B, but it didn't solve enough of my pain points I had with my 320S (tiny kitchen, 3 way fridge, outside batteries, tiny bathroom), but the '23 400 did solve those issues. Their 19 in the showroom seemed HUGE compared to the 320 especially because it was lifted, but now it would be on my list if/when I move on from the 400.

K_C_915

@dsfdogs, Thanks sharing your Escape story.  I did find someone in Phoenix who shows his, but we could not connect this summer.  It would be a two hour drive for me to see it and I was starting to see some of the less desirable features you noted, especially the outside battery storage and tiny bathroom.  So I decided to hold off on Escape for now.  There may be an Escape 19 in my future if I decide to go with them.

The more I look around, the more I appreciate the design of the 320 for a small trailer.

Mickerly

If you like the 320, you may want to look at Cortez or Barefoot. Cortez is a start-up. Barefoot is a NuCamp product. Casita just released a 15ft trailer. I haven't seen it. The 17ft Casita has 5 floor plans. Many things have updated since 2021. Seeing an old Casita doesn't do justice to the newer models.

MuttonChops

It may well be approaching the point to Stop Trailer Daydreaming, find a new obsession.

Why?   Casita rigs have been very high on my next trailer list.
This past weekend I actually was in one (2021) and it was a mixed emotion event.

No question the Casita fiberglass construction is sound, clean, and while the interior cabins are basic they have a better than typical RV quality.  Plus Casita's use standard subsystems that are easy to repair/replace.  And gosh, the head room.  Yet, it felt so claustrophobic . . . perhaps the combination of all the overhead cabinets and window placement . . . my 320S feels more spacious (except for headroom).

It seems every trailer I enter my first reaction is how can this be adjusted to feel 320S like.  So maybe I should just stop daydreaming and continue enjoying the 320S.  Yes, I'd like more overall space but nüCamp seems set on cassette toilets (which don't work for me; i.e. 360**).

The original TAB design was near ideal and nüCamp's early year enhancements being positive . . . older window A/C, wet bath, Alde, older SeeLevel . . . I'm not so impressed with the last few years of enhancements.

Guess I need to up my maintenance schedule from the minimum functional to longer operating life level.

   Additional item. I was camping at a State Park with fairly large and well
   spaced sites. Yet, at 6AM I could hear several propane forced air furnaces
   roaring to life while my Alde circulation pump quietly spun letting me
   know the cabin would be comfy after a couple alarm snooze cycles.

     ** kitchen is an concern as well, while recent reviews note lower
         quality cabinet materials

K_C_915

The more I look around, the more I am impressed with how well NuCamp (and their predecessors) did with the available space in the 320.  Once you settle in, it does seem quite open and roomy.

With that said, to scratch my bigger trailer itch, I may look at a Casita soon.
@MuttonChops, thanks for your observations on it.  I can see it not seeming as open as the 320.

Disclaimer:  Love my 320S, There is Nothing Wrong with my 320S.

MuttonChops

Can't Stop . . . . Yes, in October I said maybe it was time to take a break from next trailer wishing/searching but that's just not the case.

Now to be fair/open in my salt-water boater days before the road adventurer switch I was forever what-if'ing about different/new boats  . . . however, I owner & loved the same 1964 built twice remodeled boat for over 22 seasons . . .

My problem is the wish/need(?) for a slightly larger 320S while the TAB 360 does not do it for me.
The 320S layout is so darn comfortable for a solo traveler.
If only the bed did not have be to setup/torn down every day.

Why can't the 360 be built with a 320S Kitchen and black tank wet-bath . . . . . .

As noted in October the Casita option has dropped a bit in interest.  Lately the Escape 17B is of interest.  But no-way will an Alde System be possible.  I have CAD modeled installing a Truma Combo unit in the Escape and it is doable - - - yet not ideal since it is still a forced (ducted) air system.

Have also CAD  reviewed converting a factory 360 Cassette to a black tank.  It is doable space and structurally but there is no sane work-around for that useless (for me) kitchen.

@dsfdogs keeps asking me to re-consider the 400 as it has more space, a black tank, and the Alde.  Maybe I should.  Yet, to me the dinette area feels so uncomfortable.  I don't watch television in bed {why do RV designers think everyone does that}.

It's been said a few 400 owners have moved the television nearer the dinette - - any info links out there - - and lots of pillows, sofa throw cushions are said to make the dinette relaxing comfortable - - -

All is NOT lost.
I've planned another 5-week snow bird adventure in my 2018 320S.
Making - unMaking the Bed is just part of a day's activity for another wonderful trip in the SW winter sun.

Binghi

I don’t find the 400 dinette space uncomfortable at all. Love sitting there in the morning drinking my coffee and looking out the front window.

At a park recently I was invited into an Escape. Certainly a well-made trailer with lots of features, but I found it too confining. Same with an Airstream Basecamp that I checked out this year at a dealership. The NuCamp windows make all the difference for me - they let in a ton of light and open fully so you get a lot of air. Open all the windows, turn on the ceiling fan, and you have a real outdoor camper. Even works in the rain.

Horigan

@MuttonChops, Have you investigated cutting the back panel in half, installing a hinge support in the middle, and moving the now bed side hinge to the support?  Or, you could buy two new hinges and make it so either half can be up or down.

I agree with you that the 320 dinette seating is more comfortable than the 400.

AnOldUR

@MuttonChops I'm sure it's in one of your posts, but I haven't found why you don't sleep side to side to avoid setting up the bed? That's been our approach for the four seasons we've had our 320S.

MuttonChops

AnOldUR said:
. . .  why you don't sleep side to side to avoid setting up the bed?

HaHa , I do sleep side-2-side (wheel-2-wheel) and frequently leave the bed made while sitting at the table (passenger seat).  However, for reading a book or watching a movie the rear bench with its reclining position is most comfortable/enjoyable so bed must be undone . . . .

SLJ

We have looked at the Casita, Scamp, and others. We bought our 320S during the pandemic as it was the only one on our list of four or five that was available in our time frame. The 320S works for us sleeping front to back as we're too tall for side to side sleeping. Would like more headroom and larger bathroom and when I first heard about the 360 I was excited. Unfortunately after seeing the 360 I find the bathroom is no more floorspace than our 320 and the hitch weight is higher than it should be. NuCamp could have made the bathroom bigger quite easily. I really don't think we'd gain that much for the additional cost as the twin set up we have now in our 320S works for us. We spend most of our time outside anyway. The 400 is out for us due to the bed set up.

Mickerly

We went with the Casita. We like it very much. Our '18'CS is an outstanding camping trailer. I don't think there is a better "Camper" made. It will go up for sale in the spring... unless we can justify keeping them both.

We looked at the '400 but there was not enough improvement to be worth the cost. If NuCamp cut the trailer aft of the refrigerator and kitchen and added a 14in plug for storage and countertop space in the kitchen and a couple drawers and short closet next to the refrigerator, you would have a great, functional trailer.

The '360 is trailer design on drugs. You have a cassette so you don't have to move the trailer to dump, but you have a gray tank you have to move the trailer... We have a some kitchen inside and some kitchen outside. Then, the outside kitchen countertop is split level for no reason making it unusable. It just doesn't work on many levels.

AnOldUR

Mickerly said:

The '360 is trailer design on drugs.

Hadn't thought of it that way, but it sums it up well.

Seems like it was designed on a computer by an engineer with minimal camping experience and then put into production without any real world testing. 

MuttonChops

AnOldUR said:
Seems like it was designed on a computer by an engineer with minimal camping experience

Engineers design what they are told . . . . More likely it is the dream child of a Marketing Consultant.

Towhee

@Mickerly when our gray tank is full we simply drain some out into the cassette which dumps into the campground dump site.  Yes, this doesn't work for boondockers.

jkjenn

AnOldUR said:

Mickerly said:

The '360 is trailer design on drugs.

Hadn't thought of it that way, but it sums it up well.

Seems like it was designed on a computer by an engineer with minimal camping experience and then put into production without any real world testing. 

MuttonChops said:

AnOldUR said:
Seems like it was designed on a computer by an engineer with minimal camping experience

Engineers design what they are told . . . . More likely it is the dream child of a Marketing Consultant.

After spending months in the TAB 360 prototype, I can assure you neither are true. In addition to incorporating a lot of customer and dealer feedback into the design, they gathered additional feedback from customers at uCamp when they shared the design. 

It's easy to think, "Why didn't they change that?" But there are often supply chain limitations or weigh balancing issues that never even occur to us.

Camping in the TAB 360 has just made sense, including 3 straight weeks of boondocking. 



The kitchen switch from the TAB 320 to the TAB 360 has been an upgrade, for me. I love the large fridge and if they used a smaller fridge, you would lose storage space and I have loved having a home for everything in the kitchen, including the air fryer and spices. Plus, I love having that large fridge far more than I expected. 

The prototype has just felt like "home" since we (me & Rocky) stepped inside last summer...to the point that I have spent about 5 weeks, total at home since early May.

@MuttonChops I have come across quite a few people who were cassette toilet resistant and when they tried it they were surprised that it wasn't as bad as they thought. Have you considered renting a trailer for a week that had one it to try?

MuttonChops

jkjenn said:
. . . @MuttonChops I have come across quite a few people who were cassette toilet resistant and when they tried it they were surprised that it wasn't as bad as they thought.

It was not my intention for this thread to become a Cassette vs No Cassette debate.
Some trailers/slide-ins clearly should be cassette due to space restrictions and larger trailers benefit from the capacity of black tanks.  In the size range of the 320 and 360 both systems can work . . . nüCamp and other builders should provide their customers with a factory installed option.

I have now and have had in the past Boats with cassette toilets.
Current boat has a 2.5 gallon cassette . . . which is very difficult to lift/manage when full.
As a small recreational boat the cassette makes sense but is a PIA.

Lowering and tipping/lifting a trailer 5 gallon cassette when full is not an easy task at my age/health.
Now some folks say just empty sooner - - but at 5 gallons it already has to be emptied twice as much as even the smallest black tank.  Add in many (far too many) boondocks feel dumping untreated gray water on public lands is fine.  However, it is not good practice and the more people doing it the greater the likelihood there will be additional no camping restrictions.

I will not have a cassette when easier use systems are available in 320/360 size trailers - -  a standard black tank.
As for dry flush - - public health issue as waste goes to land fill.  Composting might be acceptable - - but more of a hassle (in a trailer vs cabin) than I need.

SLJ

To each his own. I'm in my 70s. I've had black tanks for over 30 years. Cassette is so much quicker, cleaner, and easier. Never want to go back to a black tank. Don't have to pack up to dump it either.

Mickerly

Each of us uses our trailer differently. We camp in our 320CS at least monthly; however, we rarely stay in one place more than 3 to 4 days. Emptying the black and gray tanks when they are about 70% is on the way to the next location; a very easy chore. Having a cassette to empty twice as often would not be helpful. I do understand the cassette is the shinny thing everyone wants. It also saves a lot of time and expense in assembling the trailer.
 
Because we camp and spend most of our time outside, the outside kitchen is great. My 'CS has a 6ft galley that is well designed. It is a very useful workspace. The passthrough cabinets are wonderful. You can reach through and grab stuff from the kitchen when its cold or rainy. Our refrigerator was smaller than the one in the non-CS 320, but it worked great and used very little electric power. We do carry an ice chest of drinks.

For our use, the 360 was not the trailer for us. The '24 320CS was not good either. No refrigerator and a multilevel countertop for no reason. The drawers in the cabin dresser were replaced with completely open cabinets. Not better for camping, but less expensive for manufacturing.

We are in a group that is 90% NuCamp products. It is interesting to see how each family adapts the trailer to their use.