Heating and Co2

Chris_and_Sarah

Last night was the first time we ever turned on the heater despite owning our 2015 Max S for more than a year.

In the middle of the night we were woken up by an alarm going off -- the one that I think is also the smoke detector, next to the a/c unit over the window.  We were afraid it was the Co2 warning, so we cracked the windows.  However, an hour later it went off again, so we just turned the heat off altogether.  No more alarms.

Any idea what this is, and how to keep it from happening?

Nomad

The smoke/fire alarm is way too sensitive for such a small trailer. I've never had it go off from just heating but can't cook inside without it going off so I remove the battery.
Chris/Sarah - How warm did you have it in there?

jkjenn

Mine (smoke alarm) has never gone off. The CO2 monitor should be mounted on one of the benches. It's mounted on the passenger side on mine. I did have the CO2 monitor go off while driving.

rrkulla

If the heater was never used may have been a little burn off. Once the heater has been run usually goes away.

mash2

Maybe you can run the heater for the day with the window open and burn off the things, and try again in the evening.    

Mouseketab

Actually, the C02 monitor should also be on the wall near the ceiling. The Propane detector is what is mounted on one of the benches.

My T@B originally came with three detectors, smoke alarm, using it's own batteries mounted on the ceiling, C02 alarm, mounted on the wall near the ceiling using it's own batteries, propane alarm, mounted on one of the bench seats wired into the camper battery.

I have since purchased a dual C02/smoke alarm, and have gotten rid of the standalone smoke alarm.

Photomom

Aren't those CO alarms? (not CO2.)

Ratkity

Yes Photomom. CO is carbon monoxide (one oxygen), CO2 is carbon dioxide (two molecules of oxygen). Both can be dangerous in a trailer.

CO is the alarm in most campers and is emitted by improperly burning of fuel (propane in our case, but is emitted by any engine like a generator - it's why PXL moves his genny depending on the wind).

CO2 above 5% is also dangerous and people feel like they can't catch their breath... something I experienced in the tightly well-made Reverse Teardrop. Cracking a window prevented that. My T@B has enough venting for the frig, AC, etc I haven't worried about CO2. PXL has found all the places where a brisk wind can blow in and where tiny dust particles sneak in as well.

In my T@B, my propane and CO alarm are a combo. It's under the driver's side bench.

CO isn't any lighter or heavier than regular air. I've had CO detectors on walls, ceilings and straight up plugged into an outlet in my house. My big genny was running and exhaust blew in the basement dryer vent I was using as a cord access. The CO alarms (one installed at eye level near the dryer and one the ceiling on the finished side of the basement) went off about the same time.

I once had one installed high on a wall that had red LED digital numbers. Apparently, the flue on the fireplace fell shut when I had lit a fire and walked out for a moment.  I heard something bang, but didn't know that's what it was from the other room. After returning, out of the corner of my eye, I saw what was normally a zero on the display turn into rising digits. The alarm didn't go off, but it was scary to see numbers go up like that - especially since my parrot lived in that room too. Flue re-opened, windows opened, fans for fresh air in windows... the numbers dropped fairly fast. Scary lesson learned.

Ratkity

Don't get me started about cooking and that smoke alarm! LOL. It's even too sensitive to use as an "oven timer".

Photomom

I was curious because it _seems_ like CO2 _could_ be an issue in a small enclosed space with a couple humans and a dog or two sleeping overnight, so it would follow that a CO2 alarm (in addition to CO) might be a good idea. It seems like the trailers are fairly airtight especially if you cover the A/C vent to prevent cold air infiltration. Are there any concerns with this?

Mouseketab

I always, always, always crack open 1 window on the T@B in the "locked open" position every time.

One, to keep me alive, and two, prevents condensation.

Ratkity

Photomom said:

I was curious because it _seems_ like CO2 _could_ be an issue in a small enclosed space with a couple humans and a dog or two sleeping overnight, so it would follow that a CO2 alarm (in addition to CO) might be a good idea. It seems like the trailers are fairly airtight especially if you cover the A/C vent to prevent cold air infiltration. Are there any concerns with this?

Photo, I had 2 goldens and myself in a 5x10 ft reverse teardrop (cozy cuddle puddle!). CO2 build-up was an issue in there so I kept the vent and a window cracked (plus one of my dogs emitted noxious fumes periodically that could wilt... nvm). I ran into another couple with the same year Reverse TD and they had to do crack a window as well.

In the T@B, the air volume is much larger, plus there are many places where there is covert ventilation (under the frig, the venting with the second fan for the frig, if you are off-level, the door will let in light and air too). They *do* make CO2 detectors if you are concerned.. just for peace of mind. Many people (like Mousie said) crack a vent to prevent condensation from breathing, so curing one issue essentially eliminates the CO2 issue.

It's very hard to get to 5% CO2 with a window or vent cracked open. In the lab, my delicate cell lines needed 37C at 5% CO2 in their incubator - and that huge thing was water-lined to keep temp steady and had an automatic CO2 injector that activated every time someone opened the outer and then inner door for even less than 10 seconds. FYI, CO2 is one oxygen heavier than CO and does layer towards the floor (i.e., place detector low). 

I hope this info helps! 

Deltaboy59

On my 2014 the CO alarm is combined on propane detector unit which is mounted on lower bench. Smoke detector is mounted by AC.

Mouseketab

Little Guy apparently has a different detector than Dutchmen T@Bs then. Dutchmen gas detector is standalone. The C02 detector and smoke alarm are also stand alone, but I replaced those with a combo C02/Smoke

Chris_and_Sarah

Thanks everyone for helping...it hasn't happened again.  It might have been the burn-off, but I also took the advice given here and cracked a window.  

2Cougs

My kitchen floors are being refinished... Can't be in the house, so slept in the T@B.  Opened ceiling vent and cracked window a tad.  Trailer plugged in.  4 in the morning an alarm started. Two beeps and then a pause... Two beeps and a pause.  Didn't have presence of mind to see which alarm was being triggered... Just unplugged, made sure battery was turned off, and got out.  Alarm stopped. Trying to replicate it today (but these kinds of things only happen in the middle of the night when you are half asleep!). Any ideas of what was causing it?  Worried if I should sleep in it until we figure out what caused it.

ScottG

Probably CO or smoke detector. The smoke detector is 9V battery operated and, if it's like most smoke detectors, will chirp when the battery is low. However, since it apparently stopped when you pulled the power, that points to the the CO detector (which runs off the T@B battery/converter).

You should have gotten a CO detector specific manual with the literature packet that came with your T@B--it includes a key to interpreting the various beep patterns, but I don't recall offhand what's what.

Michigan_Mike

I'm betting it's in need of a battery replacement.   That'd be my guess and the first point of attack.  I'll bet if the battery is replaced it will be fine and your chirping will end.   Batteries seem to rest once unplugged from the load and once you unplugged it the charge rate went up a few ticks and when plugged back in things seemed to be okay for the moment.  Nonetheless the battery will probably die out again (unless you install a fresh battery) and you'll be back to the intermittent chirping once again.  

2Cougs

@ScottG and @Michigan_Mike - thanks so much for the quick and confident replies!  One of the reasons I LOVE this forum!

atlasb

We  have the PV T@B (2013)  and have had the battery drop below a point and the alarms will go off.  Bring the Batt level up and the alarms stop. Saw that in a thread a long time ago.  Also,  We never heat or cook without some ventilation.  usually always crack the fantastic fan vent and or a window.  This also helps even when not heating or cooking to control the moisture inside.  Sealed up tight and sleeping can produce moisture.  Just a thought.

I also keep my batt on a trickle charger when not in use.  Check the fluid level once in awhile.  Seems to keep the charge better for us.

ScottG

I'm looking at the CO detector manual now. (My detector is an Atwood LPCO in a 2015 T@B). The manual is not particularly concise or well-organized. The only specific reference to two chirps is the "end of life" indicator. The alarm will stop for 48 hours if you press the reset button. I'm not sure if disconnecting the power has the same effect as resetting.

There are also low power alarms, but the manual claims they are visual only. My model does not have a user-serviceable battery inside--it gets its 12V power strictly from the T@B battery or the converter. 

Clearly others have had different experiences, so there may be variations in the detectors installed over different model years. Good luck and let us know what you ultimately figure out!

brcline

Our detector went off this last weekend twice during the middle of the night. We have a 2016 T@B S. We are newbies, and it was the second time we had "Ruby" out. We were in the Chiricahua's in AZ. Our top vent was open, but we had a dog bed on the floor that apparently was blocking the detector. It seems possible that could have set it off. We disconnected all power, calmed our dog down and went back to sleep. We were given no manual for that detector. i am looking for one online.
We are so new, we don't even know what setting the battery needs to be on to charge while we are traveling. Is it supposed to be on the green or red (horizontal is the green setting and vertical red)? I think we had it wrong because we had very little battery power left when we arrived at our campsite. We are taking her out again this weekend to dry camp, and hopefully get some of our glitches resolved.

ScottG

brcline, your battery should be connected (which I assume is the green setting) in order for it to charge while driving.

The battery line connects to the tow vehicle charge line at a junction box near the bottom front of the camper. Having the disconnect "off" will prevent tow vehicle voltage from reaching the battery.

This assumes we are talking about a disconnect mounted at the battery and that your tow vehicle actually has an operating 12 volt aux/charge line.

Ratkity

When I turn off all power, the CO alarm will beep until it completely resets. The dealer told me that the first time the furnace heat gets turned on (Dutchman T@Bs), the smoke alarm goes off, so they just removed the battery for a little while and put it back in. They started the stove as well to burn off whatever the coating is from the factory on it. The smoke alarms are sooooo sensitive for such a small space. And that was in the Retro!! The Retro is wider and taller, the length is only 2 ft longer than the T@B, so still a tiny space. He also said that a low battery (12.0V) i.e. near dead (11.9V) will set off the CO propane detector.

2Cougs

Slept in it three more nights.  No more alarms and could never replicate it.  My guess is it had something to do with sitting all winter.  Good news is the alarms work and certainly loud enough to wake you.  Thanks for all the responses!

2Cougs

OK- Here we are again.  Have been at the campsite for 24 hours.  Have had the roof vent open the entire time.  Have a CS-S.  It is mid-afternoon on a very warm and windy day.  I have the ceiling fan going, and have a curling iron plugged in - NO COMMENTS about that... usually no worrying about the hair, but were going to a wedding!  Here goes the alarm.  This time I have the presence of mind to get on the floor and look at the detectors that look like what Deltaboy posted above.  It was the propane one that was flashing.  The propane was on but not being used, and hadn't been used in over 5 hours.  Opened the trailer door, turned off propane at tank.  Alarm stopped.  Turned propane back on next morning to cook, but no more alarms.

Any ideas?  

Photomom

Sounds as if you were styling your hair - hairspray?

Ratkity

Even dogs that sit on the floor can set off the alarm by giving off a SBD (silent, but deadly) one. I can't remember what site I was looking at, but was dying laughing at the dog + propane detector stories. Also read that spray perfumes, hairspray, aerosol bug sprays can set it off. 

Sure your SO didn't "crop dust" the area while you were getting ready?

Michigan_Mike

Propane is heavier than air and if you were down near the floor and it was leaking it would seem that you could smell the vapors?  However, I'm glad things worked out and the alert subsided.

Homebodyatheart

@2Cougs when we had the walk through Nick told us about "odors" and setting off the alarm. Surprised Mr. Coug didn't remember that as we had quite the discussion involving husbands.

2Cougs

Thanks to all.  Murphy (the dog) and the DH were not inside.  I had used some hair spray.  Will hope that was it, will "spray" outside next time, and hope I hear no more mystery alarms!