Little Hot Water

gcranor

I am able to only get about 5 seconds of hot water.  I have check both fuses and they are good.

I have a new 2016 Little Guy Outback 30 days old. We went on two camp trips so far and had no hot water for showers.

Verna

The first thing I would do if I were you, would be to contact your dealer since your T@B is so new.  They really should have verified that everything worked before you left the dealership. 

jkjenn

Also, see this thread: http://tab-rv.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/33354/#Comment_33354

Tabaz

Are you getting hot water at the kitchen faucet?  If yes, you may want to check the filter screen on the inlet side of the electric pump behind the door in the shower.  It may be clogged with debris.

Tabaz

St_Bob.  Point well taken.  What if they are getting hot water at the kitchen faucet and not the shower?

DurangoTaB

Ditto to St_Bob...I've done that.  Also be sure that air is purged out of the lines and the Alde heating chamber is full (about 2 gals); I've failed to do that both after de-winterizing, or just draining lines after a trip.  Now I do all that just before taking off on a new trip. 

gcranor

I get warm water at the sink as well; I did had a little air in the system but it is still not hot.  Is there diagram for the 2016 system? I only found how to winterize the 2014 and 2015 T@B.

Verna

http://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/2026/new-manual-for-winterizing-2016-t-b-with-alde-heater#latest

Gcranor, the above link contains a .pdf file from Ed at the Pleasant Valley factory that shows the winterization guidelines for the 2016 T@B models. Maybe this will help.

kybob

I have the same situation with my 2016. I tried everything. I will be taking it to the factory soon. I'll let you know what they do.

Michigan_Mike

regarding hot water in your trailers I received this back from Ed Kauffman at the factory this morning as follows:

Good Morning Mike

I happened upon the discussion in the forum about not getting hot water. This is related to the mixing valve, and here is why they get just warm or cold water from the hot water faucets.

The mixing valve controls water temperature by adding cold water to the hot water.  What it can’t control is the temperature of the cold water being added, so if you are adding cold water from the fresh tank the temperatures could be anywhere from 70 degrees to 85 degrees depending on the day time temperature as the cold water temperatures will take a lot more volume to bring the hot water temperature down to where it needs to be.  

Let’s say the next time an individual goes camping and they use the city water hookup, and now the cold water temperature can be anywhere from 50 to 65 degrees, which will take a lot less cold water to bring the hot water temperature down, but the last time they camped they had the mixing valve set to add a higher volume of cold water .  Since they were using warmer cold water previously, the valve will still be adding the same volume of "previously asked for" cold water at a much colder temperature which in turn will put out more "colder" hot water temperature and it may not even be hot anymore with even having the valve set all the way to the positive side which should provide warmer temperatures.

 We just discovered the fix for this about two weeks ago due to the fact that our supplier wasn’t sending along instruction for the mixing valve, if they are only getting about 5 seconds of hot water and then the water gets cold, and they have the mixing valve set all the way to the plus sign on the adjusting knob and the water is still cold, follow the instructions in the attached word doc on how to increase the water temperature if it’s still cold.

 Currently the way the mixing valve is setup they can’t completely shut off the cold water being added, in other words one might think that if the adjustment knob is turn all the way to the (+) side it wouldn’t be adding cold water when in fact it’s still allowing cold water to be added.

 So if someone isn’t getting hot water, but the Alde heater is working and providing heat for the trailer there are two possible reasons for that, either they didn’t bleed the air out of the system properly or the mixing valve needs to be adjusted, first they should check the setting on the valve and turn it towards the (+) side of the valve and this will increase the hot water temperature.   Finally, if they have adjusted it as far as the knob will allow and still have cold water, they can follow the instructions in the document to further increase the maximum water temperature setting.

 

Edward Kauffman

Warranty Administrator

Pleasant Valley Trailers

661 Belden Pkwy NE

Sugarcreek, Ohio 44681

Toll Free 1-844-823-9112

Fax 330-556-4694

Silver Shadow -T@B

Little Guy- T@G

RollingLagrima

This was exactly my scenario as well, sort of.

Alde heater worked fine in the cabin, water was coming out of both hot and cold shower valves, but it was not hot water. At Joshua Tree, at 3am during a bout of insomnia and in a "I am going to figure this out by day break" mood, I pulled up all the bedding and located a mixing valve down in the guts of the Alde under the driver's side rear cushions and cranked it in the opposite direction of where it was. After that, I had hot water. Awesome!  

I will add that my mixing valve/knob/dial does not look like the black one pictured above.  I don't know at what point they switched to the black one. My T@B is 2016 Sofitel S Maxx shipped from factory to dealer in July 2015.  Below are pics of mine in case others have this one instead.  In this position (how I received it from dealer) I had no hot water. 

jkjenn

This is a good post. Thanks to Ed, @Michigan_Mike , @boo and Sally ( @RollingLagrima ) for the details.

Ratkity

Found it!!! To repeat my post... I have NO hot/cold mixing valve at all. None. Traced all the lines. Looked at the above pictures. Anyone else not have one? It wouldn't be a big deal to add one. I've always had super hot hot-water - not an issue at all because the cold nicely mixes at the shower and kitchen sink handles.

I left a message for Ed K and asked if there were some T@Bithas made without the mix valve. I guess until I have an issue, I shouldn't jinx anything. 

DurangoTaB

Ditto Ratkity...we have a 2014/2105 (we got it in mid 2014 but it has all the new/2015 features), and no mixing valve.  We have a ball/bypass valve between hot & cold...open to bypass the Alde when winterizing, closed for normal use.

Ratkity

Thanks St_Bob and Durango. For a moment or two, I thought I'd completely lost my mind (it's already a little gone LOL). Yes, the water that comes out is amazingly hot. It was surprising the first time. To be honest, I like my house hot water heater set to 135F. I read that my Alde heats to 155F, but the European instructions I happened upon said 180F, but their elements put out 1150 BTU instead of 900.

Ratkity

One problem that was run into when the gov't was in their "lower thermostat, turn off lights" phase was to lower the hot water tank temps. What they accidentally found out was that in stagnant hot water tanks (ones used once every few days) set at too low of a temp (below 110F), Legionella bacteria thrived in the water. We had a researcher get new lab space and he was just using a lot of hot water to purge the hot water tank and clean up counters (prior,hot water was just used for an employee lounge). The aerosol from the running hot water gave him Legionnaire's disease. The Feds backed off on their recommendations until they could find a temp where that wouldn't happen (especially since the lab accident happened in a Federal facility). 

That said, many more scalding accidents were happening with children, diabetics and the elderly. Those ER room stats alone pushed a lot of the national standards. I know the regulators prevent horrible burns and such, but they still annoy me in hotels and new houses.

y2kdaddio

After a couple days out with our 2014 T@B and deciding to use the Alde hot water, I discovered it is WAY too hot.  As Ratkity posts above, we also have no mixing valve in our trailer.  The water directly from the Alde unit presents a scald danger.  According to the Alde app for iPhone, the temp is set at 149 degrees F, way too hot not to have a mixing valve. 

 Is the mixing valve a late addition to the trailers after 2014? 

Nomad

My 2015 doesn't have one either - I compensate by turn on both the hot and cold at the same time and then backing off the cold to desired temp.
The good news is, it's perfect for hot cocoa without firing up the burner :-)
And yes, I will drink the water from the faucet.

fwillison

OSHA recommends setting water heaters at 140 degrees to prevent Legionnaire's (unless you have children or elderly at high risk of scald injury).  I think the mixing valve is generally set too cold.

lapowers57

I had this problem when I first got my T@B.  The first trip plenty of hot water and had a nice shower.  Second trip, about 5 seconds of hot water and then very cool.  I may not have let the Alde run for more then an hour before using so this may have been part of the issue.  When I returned home, I did some reading here and based on what I found  I set the mixing valve to full hot.  On my next trip I had a couple of very nice hot showers.  I believe my issue was not letting the Alde heat long enough before using and the mixing valve.  With the mixing valve turned to full hot I need to use much less hot water to get the temperature I want at the faucet.  I do need to be careful because the hot water can be very hot.  Now I have to read the above PDF and understand how to bleed the system of air.

Torzanne

Thanks to Michigan Mike & Ed Kaufman!! This was exactly the info we needed to adjust the mixer valve. Hot showers for everyone!

drpprmt

Is there any issue with completely removing the mixing valve.  We have one of these in our new house.  After some angry moments with the builder I eliminated the valve and we now have nice hot water.

ScottG

Provided you are equipped to work with PEX tubing, there should be no issue with removing the mixing valve. They didn't even start installing them until 2016.

Be aware that the water coming out of the Alde is HOT (approximately 130F or 150F depending on the setting). I suspect the mixing valve was added as a safety feature, but I'm glad I don't have one in my 2015!

Ratkity

I read in my Alde manual that (I had no mixer valve) that with the boost setting (propane plus electric setting) could get the hot water to 153F. I rarely used the boost;, however, as an adult who never grew up with hot water heaters turned down or hot water limiting valves in plumbing, I'm aware enough to be able to use the faucet handles to get the right temp.

I lived in a household with 3 other sisters. Imagine the hot water used for showers before school in the morning. That tank was big and temp set high. According to statistics; not hot water mixing valves, no seat belts, riding in the back of pickups, drinking red koolaid, eating bright red hotdogs... we all should be dead (or zombies - although some people like to rile up coyotes with early morning propane tank changes).

ScottG

Yup, I've measured 153F at the tap. The boost setting is activated by selecting "hot water only"--if you select "heat and hot water" you get ~130F at the tap. I did my tests using only the electric heaters--adding propane provides some sort of boost in other circumstances, but is not necessary to get scalding hot water from the Alde.

It's not clear why the output temp is stepped down to a chilly 130F when the room heat is activated. Maybe 150F is too hot for the glycol distribution system? Maybe it helps to modulate the cabin heat?

What the Alde's output is controlled thermostatically, I suspect it's kept high for sanitary (and possibly supply) purposes. As Ratkity pointed out, you can easily control the temperature using the convenient "mixing valves" located right at the tap.  ;-)  

Ratkity

ScottG, you pegged the sequence of the Alde hot water system perfectly. I just read the manual... bad scientist!

Norbert1223

I "boost" the water before I shower.  I believe the manual says it heats the water hotter for 30 minutes, so I use this before I shower. I'm not sure but I think I have the "mixing value" fully open.  

ScottG

Mine held 153F for as long as I kept the setting on "hot water only" (which for my testing purposes was three hours). I should have noted I have a 2015 with the analog (slider) control panel. The digital panel found on newer units may offer different functionality.

Ratkity, while we are on the topic of microbial science, what exactly are the temperature/time requirements for sanitizing a hot water tank? I seem to recall 140F tossed out here at some point...

Ratkity

140F is what a hot water tank in a house should be kept at in order to avoid a particular microbe that loves to grow in temps right below that called Legionella (causes Legionnaire's Disease and is a pneumonia-type bacterium). As far as the Alde goes, so little water (2.5 gals) are in there for so little time and heated and cooled repeatedly, there's little chance of that microbe being a problem. 

To disinfect (not sterilize), look to the manufacturer as to what chemicals can be used to wash out the 2.5 gal holding tank if you want to do that (not bleach or ammonia). Since the majority of people don't full-time it, I'd just worry about emptying the fresh water tank between camping trips and draining the Alde if you are so inclined. You can refill and rinse the fresh water tank and run the pump to refill the Alde before a trip if it's been over a month sitting in the hot sun. The worst that grows in the fresh water tank is a little harmless algae, but it can make the water smell or taste stale (the algae clings to the inside plastic of the fresh water tank and can be reddish color or green, depending on light source and where you park it). As a habit, I just open the fresh water tank valve after the dump station visit on the way out from camping and empty the fresh water tank (I rarely camp where's there's water connections). I don't worry about the Alde. I don't drink from the fresh water tank. Come to think of it, I rarely drink water.  

Sterilization is something I doubt you'll ever achieve and there's no need. Just FYI, to sterilize bacterial media (stuff bacteria grows on), we autoclave (fancy name for sterilize) for 120 Celsius at 20 lbs of pressure for 15min minimum. That gets rid of spores, bacteria and viruses (but not prions). More info than you wanted? Muhahahahhaa. Mad Scientist here for a reason!!!

ScottG

Cool. That's pretty much my approach. I do drink from the fresh water tank (algae is the closest I come to salad on most days) but I also supplement with enough, eh... anti-microbials to provide sufficient internal sanitizing (of my plumbing, not the T@B's...).

Funny though, I never gave a second thought to the hot water tank in my house--it's never been set above 125F. Fortunately, I don't drink from it (or the Alde, for that matter).

If I get too nervous about, I do have an autoclave at work that just might be big enough to sterilize an entire T@B. Mad scientists unite! BWAHAHAHAHA!

Ratkity

Wait wait wha? The biggest autoclave we had, we could only fit 3 bodi.. er, people in!! Where do you work and can I visit? hehehehehe. The best autoclave we had was the cylindrical one with the submarine doors. Salesmen wanted to buy it off of us. Built like a tank. Never failed us. I miss that old thing. We boiled eggs and cooked chicken soup in it (grad students fear nothing).