Battery issue

TerryV6

As of now,  I'm not asking for help.  Time today to get out my binders,  manuals and searching here for answers.. 

We drove 100 miles to a destination and then back this weekend.   We used nothing during that time,  only turned the ceiling light for short time,  and the stereo,  while not used,  had its display on.   I disconnected from the car upon arriving home.   Last night I went out to take some measurements because we might order netting.   No lights,  no stereo display.   So,  I plugged into shore power and this morning I'll check things out... After my coffee.   Wouldn't the travel have been enough to charge me up?   I guess that is my first question to ask. 

DurangoTaB

Hooking up to your car is the same as a trickle charger..2 amps.  But it seems like your battery went down instead a little up after the drive...odd.

Michigan_Mike

Do you have an LED voltmeter that plugs into the cigarette receptacle or a means of checking for 12V DC?   

If so, do the following:  

1.  Plug an LED voltmeter into the trailer receptacle and record the voltage of the trailer battery with the trailer unhooked from your tow vehicle.

2.  Hook the trailer up to your tow vehicle, start the tow vehicle and check the voltage with your car running.  If you have a dedicated feed to the trailer from your vehicle you should see a noticeable spike or rise in the voltage reading if your vehicle is providing a good charge back to the trailer.  And if not, you probably do not have a dedicated charge line running back from the tow vehicle battery, via the alternator.

Note:  Your trailer battery has a fuse on it too and you should check that out as well to ensure it's not blown.    

I would open the hood and check this out too as there should be a 30 amp fuse in a fuse holder at the battery protecting the line back to your rear wiring harness of your TV.   That would be a place to start, as will you plugging the trailer in to shore power and seeing if the battery is taking a charge.  I would recommend you start at the vehicle battery, work your way back to the rear of your TV and ensure you are getting voltage to the rear and on to the trailer battery, then check out all connections, fuses, fuses in the electric converter, etc.

jdargis

Did you start out with a fully charged battery?

ScottG

TerryV6, the short answer to your question is "yes." The 100 mile drive should have topped up your battery, assuming everything was working correctly, and you were not otherwise draining it en route.

However, I question the premise that it's a battery charging problem. You were able to use the lights on your trip, so you clearly had power one day, and no power the next. That seems pretty abrupt under the circumstances.

As Mike suggested, start by checking the actual battery voltage--preferably at the battery terminals using a voltmeter. If there is significant voltage at the battery, but everything in the trailer is totally dead, that I would start looking for blown fuses or disconnected wires. Please let us know what you find! 

TerryV6

I did the tests.   Fuse at camper battery is good,  also there is one in the engine area near the battery (10 amp)  not sure if it serves the camper,  but it is good.   Took off shore power,  plugged in meter and got 12.79. Hooked up to the car and started it,  no reading change.   Can either plug connector car or camper be sprayed? 

Nomad

To be clear - Mine has a dedicated charge wire (black) that goes directly from the positive battery terminal directly back to the seven pin plug. Close to the battery there is an inline fuse and also a little silver box - self resetting circuit breaker. I you don't have that wire, you won't get a charge. Look for that wire, it may not have been installed.
Here's the wiring on the plug, you can check there for charge also... The black wire...

TerryV6

Thanks guys,   you can see why this is a mystery to me.   New camper.. Slept in a few times but never used power..  I read a lot of info here and the manuals.   A lot of discussion here from people who have used their tabs and then have battery questions.  I haven't...  I copied my questions and a lot of your input and fired it all to the dealer.   Let you know...  One question: would an overnight shore power hookup here at home be enough to get it to a full charge?

You know,  some day I may take up radio controlled planes.   I'm sure there is as much learning involved as this.   My 42 years of tent camping were not this involved.   My ice and wreck diving were though... That was just youthful craziness.. This is why they call them hobbies.... 

ScottG

With the trailer disconnected from shore power (and from the car), are the lights, etc. in the camper now working?

If everything is working properly again, that suggests the battery was fully depleted, but charged up overnight on shore power.

Were you running the fridge on 12 volts on the drive home? That's the only thing I can think of that would drain the battery so quickly and so thoroughly--particularly if your car is not wired for charging the trailer battery.

Nomad

Ya, if your TV alternator can't keep up with the draw of the fridge on battery, that would slowly deplete it.

DurangoTaB

Ditto to ScottG and PXL...a number of us have learned that lesson the hard way!

TerryV6

I've never used the fridge yet.   Camper is unconnected and the lights and radio working... 

Nomad

Or, if you already have a volt meter you can test your charge line also.
Be aware though that to test the electric brake power you need something with resistance like an incadescent circuit tester.

ScottG

I would sleuth this out by disconnecting the shore power, leaving the battery hooked up, and monitoring voltage at the battery over time. The voltage will drop slowly from phantom drain, but if the battery is good it should take a few days for it to dip below 12 volts.  

If voltage drops abruptly--particularly to the point where your trailer loses all power--that suggests your battery is compromised. If your trailer loses power but your battery still shows a reasonable charge, I might start looking for some intermittent bad connection.

In light of comments others have made, the problem you first described could occur if your battery was not fully charged to start with, and your car did not have a 12 volt charge line. The additional load of your weekend trip could have drained the battery to the point where it could no longer provide any usable power to the trailer. Plugging it into shore power would have recharged the battery, but how long it is able to hold that charge is a better indicator of its health.

I hear ya' about the relative simplicity of tent camping...but I have no desire to go back!

RZRBUG

Don't know about other manufacturers, but my 2012 GMC Sierra came with a complete tow package, BUT the wiring was not fully connected to the 7-pin plug.  Mechanic friend traced the un-connection under the dash, wired it up, and I was good to go.  I understand this is/was standard practice, God only knows for what reason.  If you're not getting a charge from your TV to the battery, might be something to check.

Ratkity

Terry, a sitting T@B has a parasitic draw of power estimated about 300 mA per day (if I rem). Even a battery that's been sitting (flooded lead acid) will slowly lose charge all by its little lonesome (as in no camper draws). AGM batteries usually don't discharge very much if sitting for several months with no power draws.

100 miles of a trickle charge from an alternator isn't very far for very long. I don't think you'd charge much if your battery was even half depleted. That's only an hr and a half at 60 mph (right?). A 50% depleted battery can take overnight to charge to 100% because the float cycle takes so long. You can get it to about 95% after about 4 hours with a typical car charger. 

Many people have put in cut-off switches in their campers, but pulling the fuse for a while will work for me until I get my ducks in a row and finish putting in my second propane tank in and move the battery in front of the box with the group 27 size deep cycle. Then the cut off switch goes in and I remove the spaghetti I have for the solar in the front box to something neater. 

Forgive me if you've already put in a cut-off and this happened and already know the above. Testing as described in above posts (I like the little 4/7 pin tester... I have an incandescent one, but can't find the sucker). 

Best of luck!

TerryV6

Thanks all...  I bought the tester and all the lights lit but the 12v....So, my Tab is in the clear and it now has become a car problem...  To be continued... 

jkjenn

Yes, @Ratkity is correct. You should not run down a deep cycle lead acid battery below 50%, which you reach within about a week of parasitic drain. You will completely discharge in it about 3 weeks.

TerryV6

So,  I have to figure out why the car isn't charging the battery,  and I've learned the discharge rate of the battery,  even when unused.   I didn't know that...  Thanks...  Tomorrow is another day.   Dealer left a return email 10 minutes ago,  I'm to call them.   At least I've learned more in the meantime.   All these things would be fodder for an informative book... 

TerryV6

Well, I guess I'll have to say I've found out the problem... Me...  My dealer called today and I was informed that I was "not" wired for charging.  In my defense, I assumed that when you pay for wiring, you got this.  I already had a towing ability and a plug in, but  I paid for the wiring to pull the Tab.  Partly redundant?  
 So.. Another learning journey.
I learned:
1.  I didn't have a charging from the car.  I was told I could get this for $200.  Worth it?  Could my 6 cylinder RAV4 do it?
2.  I picked up a 7 pin connector tester and know what each of these connections do.
3. I have the inexpensive charge plug-in gauge to show my battery level.
4. How fast a battery can discharge even without use. -- from personal experience and Jenn....
5.  I was told by the dealer that I probably should disconnect the battery fuse when not using.  I read this from one of Verna's posts a while back, but it flew right over my head, I guess..

Finally... I learned again how helpful everyone here is.  Thanks!

Ratkity

Had a 2006 V6 Rav4 with factory tow pkg. Yes, it could handle it beautifully. One of the bonuses was that there was a heavier alternator in it. Can't rem your Rav4's year, but mine had no issues at all. I went up and down mountains (with both the little teardrop and the T@B). Just take it easy and don't be in a hurry. No sway issues either with the T@B and Rav4 under normal warp speed, er um, driving conditions (certainly don't have it with the pickup - sway, not warp speed).

$200? For one wire?!?!!?! *faint, thump* No wei! I put the harness and hitch on my Rav4. "Tow Package" meant, no hitch, plug in ready for the wiring harness and the alternator. That was it. Putting in the wiring harness was a piece of cake (follow driver's side kick plate to rear taillight along carpet - wires under door moldings.

The Rav4 forums were very helpful and the forums are broken down into respective vehicle years so that differences among them are separated. Wiring a 10 gauge wire to the 7 pin plug? Easy. NOT worth $200 unless you have physical limitations about getting up and down off the ground (you'll have to look under the Rav4 after you run the wire to the tail light and drop it underneath). The Rav4 forums are the place to ask specifics for your year. Best of luck!

Mr_Mrs_Gnome

@Ratkity, would there be a difference in alternators between a tow package alternator and a standard alternator. @TerryV6, if you don't know already, you should be able to determine your Alternator amperage based on its model/serial number.

jkjenn

Mr_Mrs_Gnome said:

@Ratkity, would there be a difference in alternators between a tow package alternator and a standard alternator. @TerryV6, if you don't know already, you should be able to determine your Alternator amperage based on its model/serial number.

This is highly variable by brand, model, and year. For example, the 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland has a higher rated alternator than my 2015 model. I wouldn't trust a dealer's word for it, either. You really have to dig to get the info. My Grand Cherokee has a higher rated alternator than My Wrangler did, but not as high as the 2014 GC.

Ratkity

What Jenn said about alternators. When I got the 2006, there was a difference between their standard 2006 alternator with same size engine and the tow package one. Doesn't mean another year isn't different!! Even the decent vehicle techs at the dealers can't keep up and have to look up specs constantly (what one repair guy told me at my dealership when I was in for recall work). 

SweetlyHome

We tow with a 2012 RAV4, 6 Cyl., with the tow package, tows great.  We will not mention mileage.  Bought it new and the tow package did not come with the 7-pin connector just the 4(?). The tow package did include a larger alternator.  Dealer wouldn't install the 7 pin adapter kit we had to have a trailer place do it.  Even with the 7-pin kit it did not cost $200.  Make sure the charge wire is 10 gauge.  

TerryV6

One final note on this subject.  We had found we didn't have a charge wire there in the dealer install . I had called and they said they'd do it for about 220.  I found a place here that will do it for about $20, which seemed reasonable.  In the meantime, a friend of a friend stopped, liked our T@bbey and we pointed them south 110 miles to where we got ours.  A week later we heard that they had bought one and are quite excited.  Unfortunately, we heard that they paid this extra fee.  Sigh... We've decided not to say anything...

Mouseketab

Another recommendation if you get the charge line, also get the isolation relay. That way when your ignition is off, you are not depleting your car battery.

FYI, the easiest way to tell if you have a charge line without any meters. (This method does not tell you how efficient it is).

Turn off your T@B battery by disconnecting the negative, turning the battery cutoff, or removing the fuse at the battery.

Hook your camper to the 7-pin, crank the engine. Turn on an interior trailer light. If it comes on, you have a charge line. Turn off the engine, if the light goes out, you have an isolation relay. If the light stays on, you do not have an isolation relay.

Dad and myself installed the charge line and isolation relay, and a 7-pin setup to my first truck. (It already had a 4-pin). About $50 worth of parts including the 4-pin to 7-pin changeover. It took us about 3 hours.

TerryV6

Thanks for the tip...