Rack options on the tongue

Vermonster

I'm thinking of ideas to add carrying capacity.  Similar to the outback front rack, I'm thinking of pulling the propane/ battery box and the propane and battery mounting brackets, mounting a 60" x 22" steel mesh flat rack, then reinstalling the propane/battery brackets and box on top of the steel mesh.  It would add a mesh floor to the box and storage on the sides for an extra propane tank, etc.  Has anyone done anything like this?   

Nomad

Haven't seen that kind of platform that anyone's done but have seen people remove the standard tub and replace with a full width diamod plate cargo box.

Dalehelman

Dalehelman

Cost about $75

Nomad

That looks like it would inhibit sharp turning for me.

Fatman1966

Looks nice. 

Dalehelman

T@B trailer tongues are very long for such a small trailer and that is a good thing. I am able to jack knife more than 90' without interference problems. Also with propane, duel batteries, generator, and storage bins with assorted necessaries. Tongue weight is under 200lbs.

Vermonster

Thanks dalehelman, that's very similar to what I have in mind.  I've measured and will not inhibit turning.  My DM trailer has a shorter tongue I think but it still works. Did you fabricate that?

Dalehelman

Yes it is a rack I purchased from Harbor Freight.

Sharon_is_SAM

Dale, the fully loaded tongue weight really surprises me.  I am stressing about getting a heavy battery and what it will actually do to our tongue weight.  What do you estimate is the weight of all the add ons to the tongue that only increased the weight by 40 lbs?  It must be because of the length of the tongue.  

Dalehelman

 Sam is your trailer a LG or DM? What is your tow vehicle?

Sharon_is_SAM

Dale - just ordered a CSS and planning for a large capacity AGM battery. Will tow with a Toyota Sienna minivan.  Allowable 350# tongue weight.  Just not sure how real added weight actually factors into the final tongue weight.  Doesn't look like it is pound for pound.  Curious.

TabberJohn

When you add more stuff on a front rack you are adding weight about halfway between the ball mount and the axle.
The weight is distributed between those two points. It is not pound for pound due to simple physics.
Think of the tongue as a lever and the fulcrum point is the trailer axle. Or consider a see-saw where one side is longer than the other with different weights either side.
Ideally for towing stability you want tongue weight to be 10-15% of the total loaded trailer weight.
Tongue weight will vary based by how much you stow in your T@B either side of the axle.
A heavy load added in the front could be counterbalanced (if needed) by stowing more gear in the rear or close to the trailer axle.
But my guess is you'd have to add a considerable load to the front rack to exceed the 10-15% rule. 

 

Dalehelman

TabberJohn said:

When you add more stuff on a front rack you are adding weight about halfway between the ball mount and the axle.
The weight is distributed between those two points. It is not pound for pound due to simple physics.
Think of the tongue as a lever and the fulcrum point is the trailer axle. Or consider a see-saw where one side is longer than the other with different weights either side.
Ideally for towing stability you want tongue weight to be 10-15% of the total loaded trailer weight.
Tongue weight will vary based by how much you stow in your T@B either side of the axle.
A heavy load added in the front could be counterbalanced (if needed) by stowing more gear in the rear or close to the trailer axle.
But my guess is you'd have to add a considerable load to the front rack to exceed the 10-15% rule. 

 

What he said. I doubt that you will get near your 350lb capacity.

Verna

If you Google "How do you calculate trailer tongue weight" you'll find information on an easier way to calculate up your tongue weight on a commercial truck scale. 

Sharon_is_SAM

Thanks everyone!  That helps a lot!

ScottG

Dalehelman said:

Yes it is a rack I purchased from Harbor Freight.

A quick search of "rack" Harbor Freight online doesn't bring this up. Does it have a specific name?

I like your set-up better than the pricey Outback rack. What sort of fabrication was involved to get it to fit? It appears from the photos that you might have cut the rack and welded on a new flange to bolt it to the tongue, but I'm just guessing.

Dalehelman

 Item # 69858 atv cargo carrier

Vermonster

Thanks for all the info.  I'll let you know how mine works out if I do it.  The rack I'm looking at is 60x22 at tractor supply and shouldn't need any fabrication other than unbolting and removing the receiver hitch part.  Will probably need longer bolts for the propane/battery bracket and tub to remount on top of the steel mesh floor that's in the rack, but as part of the process want to replace all the bolts anyway

Vermonster

Regarding tongue weight, bathroom scale under the tongue jack??

ScottG

Vermonster, I'm anxious to see what you come up with as well.

I measure tongue weight by setting a short piece of wooden post (e.g., 4x4 or 6x6) on a scale, then setting the tongue on that. (Be sure to subtract the weight of the post.)

Because the tongue jack sits further back from the hitch, you'll get a reading that is heavier than your actual weight at the hitch.

(NOTE: Original post edited to provide information regarding tongue weight that is actually correct!)

Vermonster

Thanks Scottg  you're certainly right, to be most accurate.  And your method is easier than getting the scale under the jack if you're already unhooked!

rfuss928

ScottG said:

Because the tongue jack sits further back from the hitch, you'll get a reading that is lighter than your actual weight at the hitch.

Because the distance from the axle (pivot point) is less, the measured weight will be higher at the jack compared to the ball socket.

Sharon_is_SAM

OK. Scott says the tongue weight as measured at the jack will be less than the actual weight at the hitch and rfuss says the tongue weight measured at the jack is more compared to the ball socket (hitch).  I had to dig into some pictures of fulcrums for this, but it makes sense that as you increase the distance from the trailer axel (fulcrum) then the weight decreases and vice versa.  So if you don't alter the weight behind the Tab axel, taking a tongue weight measurement closer to the trailer axel will actually weigh more than taking the measurement at the coupler.  There was a reason I opted out of my high school physics class!  Wt. x Distance = Wt. x Distance....  Thank you TabberJohn.  

ScottG

Right you are, rfuss928 and SAM. I was, eh..., ah... testing you to see who was paying attention.  :-)

Seriously, thanks for keeping me honest. I've edited my original post to reflect a more thoughtful assessment of structural physics and gravitational force!

Sharon_is_SAM

In a nut shell - now I can put a 100 pound AGM battery close to the trailer and not overshoot the tongue weight limit!

Lisamorrisette

Holly molly between taking up ceramics and towing a camper my non-existent mathematical and physics knowledge, not to say anything about electrical knowledge, are being born. Perhaps if someone had explained why I would need these skills, which boggle my brain, I would have taken some classes. Instead I am an art historian who is desperately trying to catch up. The multi-meter that I purchased has touched the battery. But I have no idea how to check the 7 pin connector nor where to put that dielectric grease I bought. And now I need a bathroom scale and physics—this is me 😿.

Tampakayaker

Lisamorrisette said:

Holly molly between taking up ceramics and towing a camper my non-existent mathematical and physics knowledge, not to say anything about electrical knowledge, are being born. Perhaps if someone had explained why I would need these skills, which boggle my brain, I would have taken some classes. Instead I am an art historian who is desperately trying to catch up. The multi-meter that I purchased has touched the battery. But I have no idea how to check the 7 pin connector nor where to put that dielectric grease I bought. And now I need a bathroom scale and physics—this is me 😿.

For just about anything you have a question about, there is probably an answer somewhere on this site.

You can use the search function (it's hit or miss for me) but if you can't find what you're looking for, just ask and someone probably has the answer or a link to the proper thread.

You can Google 7 pin connector diagram, and it'll show you what each pin is.  Set your volt meter to a DC voltage higher than 12 volts, put the black lead on a ground and the red on the pin you want to check.

ScottG

Tampakayaker said:
...

For just about anything you have a question about, there is probably an answer somewhere on this site.
...

Agreed! However, in the interest of full disclosure, there is a small surcharge for correct answers.  ;-) 

Sharon_is_SAM

@Lisamorrisette - to get us started we bought this from Amazon.  Just connect it to your TV 7 pin outlet and follow the directions.  It helped identify that the 7 pin installer failed to install a TV brake wire!  We use dialectic grease on the trailer 7 pin.  Make sure the pins are clean and just spread a bit of grease.  A little grease is all you need.