I've been towing without brakes!

Ratkity

I decided to upgrade to the Prodigy 3 brake controller. I like the features and versatility and the proportional aspect when towing larger things. Well, it was a plug and pray sorta thing and uh.... there was an immediate error!!

I have to thank PXL for telling the forum a long time ago about his "bulb tester" - what a handy device!! See, I was getting a "Trailer not Connected" error. I had lights, turn signals, brake lights.. no electric brake signal. OMG... checked everything. Finally I decided to dig deep where the harness I put in to extend the wires to reach the old controller were connected (behind the kick panel). There it wuz, the blue wire just waving in the wind at me. Blue wire fixed, checked and reconnected all other wires tightly and all is well. How long I've been towing without electric brakes? I don't know. Having it fixed, priceless!!

Having that bulb tester was like having a sacred wand - more powerful than Verna's (ok, almost). Thanks PXL and all the other people who chimed in about having a bulb tester handy.

You guys and wimins ROCK!!!

ericnliz

Ok, I'll bite, what does this "bulb tester" look like, and where can it be obtained? By the way Ratkity, glad you found the problem!

irvingj

Might be like this:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/autocraft-electrical-circuit-tester-86599/5760024-p?iv_=__iv_p_1_a_214327102_g_12425515822_w_pla-61865531738_h_1021908_ii__d_c_v__n_g_x_pla_y_6201684_f_online_o_5760024-P_z_US_i_en_j_61865531738_s__vi__&utm_source=ACQ&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA&utm_content=shoppingcampaigns&gclid=CNm6ouGhrtECFQhXDQodsJEOcw

I've had one of those in my toolbox for about 40 years.... at least!   Just hook the clip to a known good ground, and you can use the pointy probe (technical talk here) to search for live 12V DC voltage. Extremely handy for troubleshooting trailer lights, etc.

Photomom

Not sure what tester he's talking about but we use this one. Not only tests the 7-way connector and wiring but also indicates if the brake controller is working.

https://www.amazon.com/Tekonsha-6562-Trailer-Emulator-Display/dp/B004BCA9B8

Dalehelman

Maybe more  commonly known as a "test light "

ScottG

On the plus side, since you apparently didn't notice the lack of brakes, you must have an adequate tow vehicle to control the trailer.

My brakes are prone to intermittent grabbing unless I dial my basic controller wayyy back to the point where I'm not convinced it's even doing anything. Regardless, I have no trouble stopping the trailer under any conditions with my V6 Frontier.

I'm not advocating that people go without their electric brakes, just wondering how necessary they really are for the T@B when it's being pulled by a sufficiently robust TV. I'm curious as to what others experiences are, and if you actually "feel" your trailer brakes when they activate.

Nomad

Most circuit testers have a little light in them that lights up if there's power - great if that's all you need to know. If you want to test your wiring and the controller you need a tester with an incandescent bulb. It glows brighter as you step on the brackes or slide the emergency switch on the brake controller. Barely lite when the brake isn't applied. Just because there's power doesn't mean all is well.
Took me a month to find that out. Everyone I talked to pulled out their multimeter or std cirtcuit tester, found current at the seven pin and declared it good at that point. Need that proportional glow.

If your vehicle is heavy enough like mine, didn't really notice there was anything wrong - probably would have for a quick, fast emergency stop though. But for normal travel, couldn't tell.

Ratkity

Well, see... um, I was towing a 3200# tandem axle trailer... through DC rush hour traffic. I was taking my time and was seeing the light go on the controller when I pressed the brake, but was not really feeling it on such a large trailer. I thought I was tired and wasn't sure how the trailer should feel. Then I used the slider and adjusted the gain and didn't feel much slowing down - other than the weight of the trailer slowing the TV down. I thought the controller (which was old) was dying. Yup, my TV has sufficient towing and braking capabilities for that size trailer, but um, scary that the only thing braking that trailer was my TV. 

Phew, I'm glad I found the problem! I did the test light tango and was ready to dive under the hood to see the fuses (another fuse panel under passenger kick plate too). 

Thanks again for the tip early on - when I was a new forum member!! I do take the experiences and recommendations of the folks here to heart.

Sharon_is_SAM

Good point PXLated.  Photo mom- that device is referred to as a 7 pin tester.

Nomad

Boo - If you thru that slider and nothing happened, is it your controller or the brakes that have the problem? Can't tell can ya :-)

irvingj

Photomom, yeah, that would be the one to use! Guess I'm just too old school.. or maybe just too old....  

TabberJohn

boo said:

I can test my trailer brakes anytime. I cruise down the road with my foot OFF the brake pedal. I touch the slider and it applies the brakes on my trailer pulling my TV down. On top of that, it has a sensitivity slider to adjust the braking.
Have not seen a modern day controller that does not have these two options.

Agreed. It is really, really easy to test this anytime you hookup your T@B and head out regardless what size TV you have.
I bet a lot of T@BBERS got their controller calibrated by a dealer/installer and then forget about it.
Testing the controller should be on your trip checklist. This also ensures you know how to hit the manual lever should you ever need it.
If you're not testing this on occasion you won't know if the controller needs an adjustment and your brain-to-hand coordination is going to spaz out in an emergency.

A big TV can certainly stop a T@B on its own if you have to stop quickly, but if you're not traveling in a straight line when that happens a trailer without brakes is going to fishtail behind you. 
You want your trailer brakes working all the time, especially on a steep, twisty descent or for an emergency stop.

ericnliz

Test mine every time before I go out on the highways & biways. Usually headed over a mountain range, or steep decent in our neck of the woods, and would much rather be safe than sorry. Besides that, I use 2 different TVs, and the controllers are two different makes, so I make sure I have them adjusted to where I am comfortable in each application. Both my TVs are more than capable of stopping the T@B under "normal" circumstances, it's the ones outside the "norm" I try to prepare for.

Nomad

boo - As would most. If you read my thread from last year, finding someone to fix them wasn't easy. No std. brake shop or RV repair center did it. Finally found a big utility trailer place in a big city that could do it. For those that like to tinker/analyze themselves, they'll need an analog circuit tester. 

Ratkity

@ericnliz, tis going to be check list item now. I remember testing the T@B when I first got it and brakes were touchy at first, but smoothed out after seemingly settling in. This was on my RAV4 with a dealer installed brake controller and never had an issue with it. I have a different TV now and have had it over a year.

I sorta wish the controller was built in like M_Mike's new TV (it was your's, wasn't it?). I guess it might be harder to test problems, but I'm not deterred by 12V systems. I might have been stumped by the hidden soldered fuse in the alde though (in another thread).

Ratkity

ScottG said:

On the plus side, since you apparently didn't notice the lack of brakes, you must have an adequate tow vehicle to control the trailer.

My brakes are prone to intermittent grabbing unless I dial my basic controller wayyy back to the point where I'm not convinced it's even doing anything. Regardless, I have no trouble stopping the trailer under any conditions with my V6 Frontier.

I'm not advocating that people go without their electric brakes, just wondering how necessary they really are for the T@B when it's being pulled by a sufficiently robust TV. I'm curious as to what others experiences are, and if you actually "feel" your trailer brakes when they activate.

All states have laws on the books that require trailers over 1000# or 1500# have electric brakes and break away switches. Each state varies on the trailer weight, but it seems to be either 1000 or 1500. I didn't have electric brakes on my reverse teardrop. I had to be careful not to go through a drive-thru with it because I'd forget it was there (900 lbs fully-loaded). When I had my '94 Chevy V8 350, I forgot my popup was behind me and almost creamed a McD's sign in a drive-thru lol. This was before video/photo cell phones and hairpin drive-thru areas. 

When I was reading about troubleshooting brake controllers and electric brakes, it seems a matter of personal preference if you want to feel the trailer starting to brake immediately as the tow vehicle brakes or have it delay a second before the electric brakes engage. I like this Prodigy 3 controller!

Photomom

Ratkity said:

@ericnliz, tis going to be check list item now. I remember testing the T@B when I first got it and brakes were touchy at first, but smoothed out after seemingly settling in. This was on my RAV4 with a dealer installed brake controller and never had an issue with it. I have a different TV now and have had it over a year.

I sorta wish the controller was built in like M_Mike's new TV (it was your's, wasn't it?). I guess it might be harder to test problems, but I'm not deterred by 12V systems. I might have been stumped by the hidden soldered fuse in the alde though (in another thread).

Brakes loosen up, hence the instruction in the manual to adjust them after 100 miles. I posted this last summer. http://tab-rv.vanillaforums.com/discussion/3385/get-your-brakes-adjusted

Photomom

Ratkity said:

All states have laws on the books that require trailers over 1000# or 1500# have electric brakes and break away switches. Each state varies on the trailer weight, but it seems to be either 1000 or 1500. I didn't have electric brakes on my reverse teardrop. I had to be careful not to go through a drive-thru with it because I'd forget it was there (900 lbs fully-loaded). When I had my '94 Chevy V8 350, I forgot my popup was behind me and almost creamed a McD's sign in a drive-thru lol. This was before video/photo cell phones and hairpin drive-thru areas. 

When I called my insurance agent to get a policy for the T@B, she warned me to never go to any kind of drive thru. She had a client who peeled off the whole roof of his $250K motor home in a McDonalds drive thru.

Ratkity

Photomom said:

Ratkity said:

All states have laws on the books that require trailers over 1000# or 1500# have electric brakes and break away switches. Each state varies on the trailer weight, but it seems to be either 1000 or 1500. I didn't have electric brakes on my reverse teardrop. I had to be careful not to go through a drive-thru with it because I'd forget it was there (900 lbs fully-loaded). When I had my '94 Chevy V8 350, I forgot my popup was behind me and almost creamed a McD's sign in a drive-thru lol. This was before video/photo cell phones and hairpin drive-thru areas. 

When I called my insurance agent to get a policy for the T@B, she warned me to never go to any kind of drive thru. She had a client who peeled off the whole roof of his $250K motor home in a McDonalds drive thru.

The guy who sold me my trailer had the viral video of the 5th wheel going through the ATM at the bank. LOL.

Mouseketab

I take my T@B through drive thrus all the time. Most have signs that say 8' height. I've never had a problem.

wizard1880

Yikes! I've scrubbed curbs in our truck in the drive thrus in our area!  I can't imagine trying to navigate a trailer through there.  The height is the least of my worries!

Ratkity

Mouseketab said:

I take my T@B through drive thrus all the time. Most have signs that say 8' height. I've never had a problem.

Oh, it wasn't the height issue when I drove the popup through the McD's drive-thru, it was their ordering sign that almost got wiped out (curbs on each side of drive-thru). My '94 full-sized truck with wedge-shaped camper shell on the back easily went under 6'8" max height areas.

Guess that's changed now!!! Except it's hard not to forget you have a 3500-5100# trailer behind you that sticks out a foot on either side of your TV. The T@B was so nice that it tracked right behind the Rav4 and the truck, just like the reverse TD. Also, even though only 5 ft longer than the T@B, the tandem axle makes it handle differently and turns are wider because of the width and location of the axles. All new learning experiences!!

wizard1880

I've seen Jill's T@B and she definitely has hydraulic brakes.  It's an early 2013 model and electric brakes didn't arrive until late 2013.

It works just like the larger U-Haul trailers, where the hitch is a spring with a "master" cylinder embedded, with hydraulic lines that run to the trailer brake drums, each equipped with a slave cylinder, exactly like any car that has drum brakes in the rear.

They were discontinued because they add tongue weight, required more maintenance, and we're more expensive than electric brakes.

irvingj

Thanks, wizard! Our T@B was my first ever experience with trailer brakes.

It had a similar arrangement, I suppose, a telescoping shaft at the hitch, which was attached to an actuator rod that went back to the brakes - all mechanical. I liked the simplicity of it, and it did seem to be reasonably proportional. Another nice feature was a manually-operated parking brake rod that overrode the telescoping part. Used that a LOT.

Mouseketab

irvingj said:

Thanks, wizard! Our T@B was my first ever experience with trailer brakes.

It had a similar arrangement, I suppose, a telescoping shaft at the hitch, which was attached to an actuator rod that went back to the brakes - all mechanical. I liked the simplicity of it, and it did seem to be reasonably proportional. Another nice feature was a manually-operated parking brake rod that overrode the telescoping part. Used that a LOT.

The Dutchmen T@Bs have that type of brake system. LOVE my surge brakes and hand brake