GPS locator/tracker in your t@b

IrishCamper74

What type of GPS locator works for you?
Looking for feedback as I research getting one.
Thanks in advance for your input.

JohnDanielsCPA

I've been looking for an answer to this as well.  There seems to be two types of GPS locators; one that uses a satelite and one that uses cell towers.  The problem I'm dealing with - my risk seems highest when dispersed camping.  The areas I go are out of range of cell towers, leaving me with the satelite version.  However, the satelite version needs a line of sight to the satelite, so the locator would have to be installed on the roof or hitch, which would make the locator easy to see.  Also, trees and other blockages to line of sight (like storage in a garage) to the satelite could cause the infrequent pingings to be missed.  The cell tower type works better; e.g. does not need line of sight, so the locator could be hidden somewhere in the T@B, the frequency of pings is higher, but you have to have cell service for it to work.  So I have not decided anything at this point.  I am purchasing a Brahma Trailer Lock in the meantime understanding that no amount of security measures (tire locks, pin locks, hitch coupler locks, etc.) are a guarantee against theft.  I also have a fully paid-up insurance policy.

HR_Taly

My parents used a Spot Trace on their boat back in... wow, 2009 (had to look up the email where they shared the tracking link)!  I remember for 8 years ago it worked really well, it was fun to "follow" them on their trips.  They eventually stopped using it though, the $99 a year mandatory fee was a lot for what they saw as a toy.  Boat people don't seem to be worried their boats will be stolen for some reason!

Spot still looks to be in business.  It is a GPS unit so you don't need to buy a SIM card and have a mobile data plan for it.  It can be under fiberglass or glass (just not metal).  http://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=128

Reviews on Amazon seem to be fairly mixed, but the negative reviews seem to be in relation to the annual service fee, or the fact it won't track when inside a house or garage. https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B00GQ8WW4M

marknjudy

I'm wondering about connecting the satellite one to the black vent pipe on top of the trailer. You have to be pretty tall just to see it unless the device itself is big and noticeable.

jkjenn

marknjudy said:

I'm wondering about connecting the satellite one to the black vent pipe on top of the trailer. You have to be pretty tall just to see it unless the device itself is big and noticeable.

The top of that can come off. I wouldn't put it there. Some have lost their cover. Mine started coming off, buu I caught it.

marknjudy

Good to know. That scraps another idea I had too. 

ChanW

I've used the cellular / GPS version. It worked great. 

I don't see how a 'satellite' tracker would send the coordinates back to you, without using cellular...? 

jkjenn

ChanW said:

I've used the cellular / GPS version. It worked great. 

I don't see how a 'satellite' tracker would send the coordinates back to you, without using cellular...? 

The satellite doesn't, the SPOT cloud (or whoever they use for cloud) does.

IrishCamper74

OK, So Spot is one, any others that folks use?

Was looking at these 2 on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/HARDWIRED-TRACKER-WATERPROOF-PROGRAMMABLE-VIBRATION/dp/B01N700618/ref=pd_cp_107_4?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=7AVNYN1TFGPFWNP1SKY6

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NC0R9OX/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2NZ7GAW6IZHQL&coliid=I19K4TMN0OW9Y7&psc=1

AldebaranJill

@IrishCamper74   I just bought this: https://explore.garmin.com/en-US/inreach/

Here's an article that compares it to Spot:

http://www.adventurealan.com/best-satellite-messenger-inreach-vs-spot/

Ratkity

I think there was a discussion about GPS trackers long ago in this place, far, far away. One caveat (if I remember) is that the sat device one could lose it's ability to track if line of sight is not kept (needs to be outside somewhere and reachable so you are able to change batteries easily), but it's active nearly wherever you go. That said, some people used the ones with cellular connections, but would be limited to areas that had cell service. You can keep it inside and make the batteries easily accessible or hard-wire if that's an option.

jkjenn

AldebaranJill said:

@IrishCamper74   I just bought this: https://explore.garmin.com/en-US/inreach/

Here's an article that compares it to Spot:

http://www.adventurealan.com/best-satellite-messenger-inreach-vs-spot/

That isn't the same thing. It is confusing because SPOT makes two different types if devices. The kind being discussed here is permanently attached to your T@b to help recover in the event if theft. The other SPOT which is comparable to the Garmin (formerly DeLorme) inReach is the SPOT Personal tracker, used for tracking your adventures and calling for help if needed.

Also, the new he station of inReach uses the more reliable iridilum satellite communication. Again, though the inReach is for recreation.

ChanW

I still am missing how any tracker is useful without cellular to transmit the location info. Don't all trackers depend on cellular to communicate?

AldebaranJill

ChanW said:

I still am missing how any tracker is useful without cellular to transmit the location info. Don't all trackers depend on cellular to communicate?

Maybe this will help:

"Cellular phones transmit via land-based towers. Consider each signal — your call — to be a cell. When you are in a particular area, that cell is carried by the closest tower. If you move to a different area, the cell attaches a closer tower, and so on. That is why you might experience weak signals or dropped calls on your cell phone: There either isn’t a tower to support the cell nearby (leading to dropped calls or no service) or the tower is too far away, and the cell isn’t as supported as it could be.

Satellite phones, on the other hand, do not rely on towers, but instead transmit signals via satellites orbiting the earth. The signal from your device transmits directly to the nearest satellite, which then sends the signal to the nearest gateway, or land-based center, which then transmits the signal to the receiving phone; the receiving phone can be a land line, cell phone or another sat phone.

The fact that satellite signals are transmitted far above the earth and do not rely on towers is what makes them useful in remote areas. It would be impossible to place cell phone towers everywhere to ensure continuous signals — for example, in the middle of the ocean or in the remote wilderness. This is why satellite phones are more useful than cell phones to those who are traveling to isolated areas."

Source: http://www.getgds.com/blog/cellular-vs.-satellite-understanding-the-differences

jkjenn

ChanW said:

I still am missing how any tracker is useful without cellular to transmit the location info. Don't all trackers depend on cellular to communicate? 

Think of it this way: your average consumer GPS is a one way communications tool- it receives data from satellites. These devices are two-way communications devices, thus the monthly service fee.

abenteurer

Bring your checkbook.

AldebaranJill

@IrishCamper74 - I've received, configured and installed the Spot Trace - and completed testing. Works perfectly. Doesn't break the bank at $99 for device and $99 a year for service. Texts me when I start to tow it and then tracks it's movement every 5 minutes.

HR_Taly

@AldebaranJill - where did you install the Spot Trace in your T@B?

AldebaranJill

HR_Taly said:

@AldebaranJill - where did you install the Spot Trace in your T@B?

I'd rather not post that in a pubic forum for security reasons . But since each of our T@B's is different, maybe with different metal beam configurations and interior (I have a kitchen metal blacksplash) - I suggest you try out several locations. The Spot Trace will clearly tell you when it's got a good signal, it has a light that blinks red when it can't see the sky adequately. Just try out a bunch of different locations and it will let you know where it's happiest. Suffice to say it's definitely possible.

ChanW

Thanks @AldebaranJill and @jkjenn.
 
Ha. Looks like something evolved while I was sleeping! 

I had the impression that the only way a satellite could receive our signals was if we use a focusing device, ie: a dish, aimed at the specific satellite. Otherwise, I thought, transmitting that great distance would take too much power. I also thought that satellite phones require a dish.
I figured GPS was receiving a broadcast signal, that is the satellite broadcasts the signal widely over an area, using high power.
What's changed since early satellite phones and internet?

Also, are these Spot things going to be susceptible to weather conditions, thick clouds, rain, snow, and trees, like my DirectPC internet was, back when?

TabberJohn

Beats me how it can reach a communications satellite reliably, but here's the coverage map on their how-it-works page: https://www.findmespot.ca/en/index.php?cid=108

ChanW

Minimal 'real' info.... But a great setup video.  

I think I'll have to go back to school (again).

TabberJohn said:

Beats me how it can reach a communications satellite reliably, but here's the coverage map on their how-it-works page: https://www.findmespot.ca/en/index.php?cid=108

HR_Taly

I think the problem is you may be thinking Spot Trace communicates like DishTV, or the satellite dishes that people use to try to get cable TV when out RVing.  The Spot Trace is a system that communicates similarly to the SatNav (GPS) in your car.  Think of it like a Garmin.  As long as it's under glass or fiberglass, like a GPS in your car, it's fine and doesn't need an external dish or antenna.

Also note the info posted above in is relation to a different Spot device, the Gen3 which is like an emergency button for when you are out hiking, etc.  The Spot Trace is what you want if you wish to keep track of your T@B (or have friends and family log in and follow your trip!).

TabberJohn

Doesn't a Garmin or OnStar service that tracks your position use a cellular network to send that info to the tracking app?
From the Spot Trace diagram it appears these devices actually send a position signal to a communications satellite which in turn connects to cellular network or Internet. Hard to understand how a small battery operated device can do that reliably but it must work somehow.

HR_Taly

Nope, GPS doesn't use the cellular network, they are two completely separate things.  The diagram above is actually for a different product, but is likely accurate for the Spot. 

Your GPS in your car (a stand alone portable one like a TomTom or Garmin - I don't know about OnStar) rely solely on the satellite GPS system, no cellular involved.  Even my Garmin Forerunner watch is not cellular, but GPS (and that is very small indeed!).  This is also how GPS products work worldwide - when I visit the US my satnav works, and my running watch will work without issue or extra cost. Not my mobile though!

Here's a review of it (from three years ago) in the UK.  Important to note that, like a stand alone GPS in your car, if you place your T@B in your garage it will power down as it can't reach the satellites and not "wake back up" when moved.  So this might be of a concern to people who store their T@B inside a garage and are afraid of theft. And yes, one would hope that if thieves stash your stolen T@B inside, their garage or warehouse that at least you get tracking to their door/warehouse to know where they put it! http://www.techradar.com/reviews/car-tech/in-car-gadgets/spot-trace-anti-theft-tracking-device-1245673/review

TabberJohn

I don't mean determine your GPS position. I mean tracking your position on an app remotely or visiting a website to see where the device is currently located.
Garmin offers this service for some of their fitness products. I am pretty sure this feature uses your smartphone to send that info.
I believe OnStar also relies on a cellular connection to send alerts or can OnStar ping a satellite directly?
The Spot Trace article link says "Once configured, Spot Trace automatically sends a text and or email with your asset's GPS coordinates when movement is detected [every X minutes]." Does that mean a cellular connection is required to perform that function or does the diagram apply?

jkjenn

TabberJohn said:

Doesn't a Garmin or OnStar service that tracks your position use a cellular network to send that info to the tracking app?
From the Spot Trace diagram it appears these devices actually send a position signal to a communications satellite which in turn connects to cellular network or Internet. Hard to understand how a small battery operated device can do that reliably but it must work somehow.

Garmin has regular one-way GPS units that you see in your car, plus they have the inReach, which, like SPOT, has 2 way satellite communications capabilities. OnStar uses GPS and cellular. Having used a SPOT personal tracker for years, it does work.

HR_Taly

@TabberJohna the text containing your coordinates is sent via software, not via a cellular network.  Similar to how with Skype you can send a text message to a person's phone.  Or how just about any company that sends you text messages confirming appointments, offering specials, etc does it - via a computer sending through the SMS gateway (which is one of the issues in the article that the UK had part of this blocked). 

10 years ago when my parents used it, you had to log in to Spot's website to see them take your data and load it on to their map.  Now they seem to say you can see it on Google Maps - not sure if this is their native app, but they must be transmitting your data (via computer network) to a layer in Google Maps for you.

OnStar I think is totally different as it's also a phone connection so I'll leave that one be (it's a combination I think of GPS and cellular - like your phone - but not sure). 

Here's a bit on Garmin GPS.  No cellular towers needed.  That's why my parents used it on their boat - they could track it (and be tracked!) in the middle of the Atlantic.  Certainly where no cellular signal was!  That's the benefit of satellite.  http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/

I can guarantee you - the device does not use cellular towers!

TabberJohn

So that diagram must apply --
The Spot device receives low radio signals from GPS satellites to determine position then transmits those coordinates and device ID every X minutes which is picked up by communications satellites which in turn feed the website or app that displays the device's location.
What is remarkable is the Spot Tracker supports two-way satellite communications on a small battery powered device.

I wasn't clear I was talking about Garmin fitness devices that you wear on your wrist or mount on a bicycle, not Garmin GPS for your auto or a marine system with two-way communications. The fitness devices are one-way GPS for positioning then SMS cellular for tracking. Some models also use cellular voice for emergency alerts to contact numbers you enter or 911, provided your smartphone is in close proximity.

AldebaranJill

The Spot has a vibration sensor, so when it doesn't detect movement, it goes to sleep. So it's not communicating all the time, only when it's actually moving around. Saves battery life.

Ratkity

OOooooo @AldebaranJill, that is very good to know! This way I'll know when V or PXL stop (V stops so quick at the Goodwill stores, it's hard to catch her).