Changing a tire on the 2017 Outback and other stuff

ericnliz

@marknjudy, Those are kind of a "given" following the "yes, dear", aren't they?

ericnliz

Ok, now that we've "officially" deemed this to be T@B Nation "Pick on Eric Day", have at it!
Seriously thinkin' about a new web site...."Poor Old Guy. com".....ha, ha!

marknjudy

Yes, sir. They are. And I will be the 2nd member of your new website, if I may.

ericnliz

@marknjudy, there would probably be an overwhelming line to join, and in addition, if there was a complaint department attached, It would be a loooong wait for a reply! Just sayin'. 

marknjudy

Hahaha!

ericnliz

@marknjudy, Mark is the new forum page showing up on your screen?

marknjudy

It is! I had to exit and come back in with the new link. Looks awesome!

Homebodyatheart

marknjudy, but it usually is, right? No, actually if I goof up I take responsibility for it. We really don't want to start male bashing, especially since we're rather fond of you guys and all! Once we talked to a couple we knew who had been married over 60 years. Dan asked him how they made it that long and he replied with a twinkle in his eye "a lot of Yes Dear's!" Nuff said! ;-)

DaveC

I have an Outback, which is several inches higher than the standard 320.  I think the stabilizers are the same length as the standard model.  I have to extend the stabilizers to the max to hit the ground, so I don't think using the stabilizers to change a tire will work.  Has anyone tried it?

pthomas745

Yes.  It works, and it is easy.  I did it on a level driveway, and I'm sure "out in the wild" it might be a bit more difficult.  But, it is one more skill I have in my back pocket if I ever have to.

jgram2

We carry scraps of wood just in case we need to put the under the stabilizers to extend their reach. Others carry the leveling blocks which can be used in both situations.

Ratkity

That step that has a height extension in the legs is a great investment - it can be a bonus in changing a tire!

JohnDanielsCPA

Just thought I would share my experience on this.  No doubt, I did something wrong, but I lowered both of my rear jacks about an inch or two, supported them with blocks of wood, then lifted the T@B up using the tongue jack.  I found it very difficult to lift, but it did the job and I was able to get the tires on and off.  Today (several weeks later), I noticed one of my jacks was destroyed (it fell off while lowering it), and the other one was severely bent.  I had to replace both jacks.  I relocated the video from NuCamp, and it looks like using that method, they are not lowering the jacks at all, but are just supporting one of the rear jacks with a jack stand, and only lifting one side at a time.   To allay any suspicions about whether or not I lift the T@B up while setting up, no - I just drop them enough to hit the ground, then lightly snug them up.  So, I'm certain that the jacks were damaged using the procedure above.

db_cooper

The key is to fully extend the rear stabilizers so they are completely straight.  That's the only way they are strong enough to support the whole trailer.  I've used this method several times and no damage at all.   I thought it was pretty clear in the manual, haven't watched the Nucamp video.  Also, it doesn't hurt the stablizers to do fine leveling adjustments once you're camped.  I usually lower the drivers side just enough to better drain the sink and shower.

Luckyj

Ok, I have read this tread prety extensivly, and as I did notice that many of you have said never place a bottle jack under the axle, I do not see any reason not do do so.  What do you think happen when the trailer and tire bumps high in the air after a pothole, the suspension completely unload and the tire drop the same way that it would when tire is lifted from the ground with a jack under the axle.

the only real reason I would see not to do so is because the center of gravity would now be closer to the front and could provoque a very light tongue and provoque the trailer to flip on its back.  But other than that, i see no reason why not doing so.  And using a jack while TV serve as an ancor point garantie you a safe triangular stable lifting situation.

As always, I will listen to any good arguments about this.

Roamey

This is from a post by ChanW:  With the 2014 LG Tab, the documentation from the axle manufacturer (AlKo? Bal? -don't recall now) says to never put a jack under the axle.

The axle is hollow, with an eccentric interior axle which is cushioned with rubber, the whole assembly acting as a torsion spring for the suspension system (similar to the old VWs).

If you were to crush the outer axle tube by having a jack under it, it won't function correctly any more!

Luckyj

Roamey said:

This is from a post by ChanW:  With the 2014 LG Tab, the documentation from the axle manufacturer (AlKo? Bal? -don't recall now) says to never put a jack under the axle.

The axle is hollow, with an eccentric interior axle which is cushioned with rubber, the whole assembly acting as a torsion spring for the suspension system (similar to the old VWs).

If you were to crush the outer axle tube by having a jack under it, it won't function correctly any more!

Ok, thank you, I will look into the dexter axle brochure I got with my T@G.

but again, this is weird, since all the load and stress from the movement is supported but that tube (all trailer axler are hollow btw and I have a flex ride on my general duty trailer and I have used it to lift my trailer w/o ever worring about it for about 10 years, even fully loaded).  And if you only lift one side at the time and all the way near the arm, you are putting way less stress on that tube than any articulation movement.  I think they are more afraid of people who will try to jack by the center of the axle, where it is not supported and that it could bent, or by the fact that the tube is offset to the axle, witch would affected the CG once lifting motion is applied.

I will try to look into that dexter brochure tomorrow.

thank you

Dalehelman

it is not an axel tube. It is a torsion tube big difference. The axel it self is only a stub axel. Damage to the torsion tube will require replacing.

Roamey

Quote from Dexter: "Dexter recommends that you do not jack up the trailer on the suspension components because there is always the potential for damage. Bent hangers, leaf springs, or axle tubes can cause bad axle alignment with bad tire wear resulting. Also, many trailer builders do not use Dexter hangers and we have no idea how strong these hangers may or may not be. Therefore, we take the conservative approach and recommend jacking up only on the trailer frame."

Luckyj

Luckyj said:

Roamey said:

This is from a post by ChanW:  With the 2014 LG Tab, the documentation from the axle manufacturer (AlKo? Bal? -don't recall now) says to never put a jack under the axle.

The axle is hollow, with an eccentric interior axle which is cushioned with rubber, the whole assembly acting as a torsion spring for the suspension system (similar to the old VWs).

If you were to crush the outer axle tube by having a jack under it, it won't function correctly any more!

Ok, thank you, I will look into the dexter axle brochure I got with my T@G.

but again, this is weird, since all the load and stress from the movement is supported but that tube (all trailer axler are hollow btw and I have a flex ride on my general duty trailer and I have used it to lift my trailer w/o ever worring about it for about 10 years, even fully loaded).  And if you only lift one side at the time and all the way near the arm, you are putting way less stress on that tube than any articulation movement.  I think they are more afraid of people who will try to jack by the center of the axle, where it is not supported and that it could bent, or by the fact that the tube is offset to the axle, witch would affected the CG once lifting motion is applied.

I will try to look into that dexter brochure tomorrow.

thank you

Up here, please replace every time I was using axle tube by torsion tube.  If that tube is not able to supprt the jacking right at the most exterior part of the cam arm, I want it off my trailer.  That trailer inly weight 1200 lbs at the most, and we are not even lifting half of the weight of the trailer.  The entire suspension systme is supported by that tube, that is only afixed with 2 bolt per side.  Two holes are left w/o bolt.

so maybe Dexter axel should not be install on those trailers.  But again, I will look into specific and worst case, sebd them an email.  This thing is beginning to scare me,  not the jacking part, the rolling one.

Verna

@Luckyj, you do need to read what everyone is telling you. Any damage that you do to your T@G's axle because you refuse to listen to the manufacturer of your axle,or the advice of the knowledgeable people on this forum,  is not going to be covered by warranty.  There are thousands of üCamp/Pleasant Valley Teardrop Trailers on the road with a tornsion axle and they work just fine. 

Michigan_Mike

Luckyj said:

If that tube is not able to supprt the jacking right at the most exterior part of the cam arm, I want it off my trailer.  That trailer inly weight 1200 lbs at the most, and we are not even lifting half of the weight of the trailer.  The entire suspension systme is supported by that tube, that is only afixed with 2 bolt per side.  Two holes are left w/o bolt.

so maybe Dexter axel should not be install on those trailers.  But again, I will look into specific and worst case, sebd them an email.  This thing is beginning to scare me,  not the jacking part, the rolling one.

Why would you defy the manufacturers specs and good old common sense when told you "should not" place a jack beneath and raise the trailer via the axle?  The axle is designed and fabricated with a built in camber and should you distort the camber you could end up with a misaligned axle and as noted by another member, cause excessive and undue wear on the tires?   

Dexter Axle has been manufacturing these axles for quite some time, they are dependable, perform well and there have been minimal issues reported.  Obviously it is your choice to replace your axle OR place a jack beneath it.  That for me is the scary part!  

Dalehelman

The only way I would put a jack under the torsion tube is if I was feeling "lucky", and you are so go for it. Just my attempt at humor sorry.

Luckyj

I think you axles are different than mine.  Maybe it is because of the outback package. But the tube is square, I put the jack under the frame at the axle support so I do not put any pressure in the center of the tube and that tube is way biefier than the frame of the trailer.

And sorry, but no camber on my tube.  Straight as an arrow. I have also read the dexter manual, and the torflex axle is the inly one that does not have the notice to not use the axle or any of its component to lift the wheel from the ground page 59 of the dexter book, and did not find any info on their web site either.

Failure.
theire are repport of failure of those axel when they are used in dirt roads situation (probably washboard), where the rubber absorbers in the tube will heat up so much that the axle drop 1/4 turn.  And do not try to put it back where it was.  The axle is done unsless going back to factory.

as I just tested that like 2 hours ago, I found out that the oem tire with the wheel mounted from the factory is rubbing on the side of the trailer.  Oups again on the factory.

 Since I am going to the dealer for various issue tomorrow,  I guess I will be addressing this at the same time.

and btw, today was I think a working day at Nucamp, and not even a come back that they have received my emails from this weekend.

Luckyj

The jack is under the axle Tube (this is what it is called on the web site) and it is verticaly in line at the reinforced part of the frame.

the TD is not going anywhere, 4000 lbs of jeep is stopping it front to back and is the most stable part the triangle and tje CG is now toward the other side of the trailer where the wheel is the other ancor.  So even witj my 280 lbs pushing, it eould not move.

I can take a laught, do not worry about me and my nick name, but I do not work while taking chances nore calculatef risk.

i alsi do not see why someone would lift from the center of an axle and if I do so, it would be on a car or truck with a floor jack and would first install jack stand. But with a car, you respect the lifting triangle.

I prefer knowing and understanding what I do, than doing things in a way just because other said so and not knowing why.  If they can explaine the why, then I can change my mine.

Dalehelman

Question: Why use a jack at all? 

Roamey

These questions are good. They stimulate research and I learn more about my camper. The 320 S has the same square torflex type axle. I don't go off-road, but driving at high speeds on our rough highways gives it a good workout; more than I like. The axle manual is sprinkled with cautions not to place the jack on the axle and repeated instructions to follow the trailer manufacturer's instructions for lifting and stabilizing. I don't know why, but that is good enough for me. The manufacturer has to be concerned for the safety of the consumer and their product. For those T@B owners who don't do heavy mechanical work, safe general guidelines are helpful.  This is a T@B owner's forum, I think you want a trailer technician forum. The torflex has a 5 year warranty.  Good luck with your repairs and let us know the results. 

Ratkity

That's a bad rub mark @Luckyj!! I'm glad you found it. Best of luck on your repairs!!!

Luckyj

Dalehelman said:

Question: Why use a jack at all? 

To change a tire.  To fixe a brake issue, to chnage a bearing on an axle.

if you are refering to using the stabiliser leg and the tongue jack, first you have to un hook the trailer from tracking vehicule, lossing the best ancore point you can have in the field.  Is is stable, sturdy and way stronger then tha tongue jack and did I say it will not move.  Second, have seen how the stablelizer leg bent and how weak the thin that make them is thin? They balance.  No way, I will use this to change a tire.

After that, AAA (CAA in canada) or any other service company will not come to meet me when I am a 150 miles of dirt roads from the closest town or garage.  If they come, I will have to get them on my "inReach" hope they will work with coordinates and wait for them at least half a day.  

I prefer using a plug instead and inflate it with my wrangler on board air system, but fixing it with a plug is an other can of warms.

but this is just me.  I like to have options.

Luckyj

Ratkity said:

That's a bad rub mark @Luckyj!! I'm glad you found it. Best of luck on your repairs!!!

Thank you Ratkity.  I have shown this to my dealer, and they do not understand why it happend, since they think that the space between the tire and the trailer wall is sufficent.  They kind of blame it on the outback package with the wider tire.  Not that happy with that,mwhen we just paid around 20 grand can for it.  This is how much they cost when the reach us.

but I might have my own fix, with a set of aluminium tj wrangler wheels that I have laying around.  I need a spare anyway and I have 4 of those with more back spacing and the right bolt pattern. So I will have 2 for the TD, 1 spare and one extra spare, all the same and thick ones on top of that.  Up date on my build page.

back to original post, and sorry for pulling it sideways.