Circuit Breaker Keeps Tripping (only 15 amps)

[Deleted User]

Hi, I have discovered the outlets on the outside of the camper are just 15 measly amps. I like to use an electric single burner to cook my breakfast outside but it always trips the circuit breaker.  Sometimes I get lucky and the campground has some electrical outlets beside the 30amp hookup.  I also tried the one above the sink but that one still trips the breaker. Is there a hidden 20 or 30 amp outlet anywhere in the camper that I'm missing?  I would really like to be able to plug in the burner to cook instead of having to use propane.  What were they thinking to only make that outside outlet 15 amps!

wizard1880

That's odd.  Most electric cooktops max out in the 1400w range (12a), never higher than 1500w.

Is there any other appliances you're running in the camper, like the 3-way fridge on electric, or the Alde on electric mode?

Does the same breaker trip if you plug it inside vs. outside?

Ratkity

I was told on my new camper that despite the outlet accepting a 20a plug, it'll trip at 15a or if it spikes a bit above 15a for more than a couple seconds on shore power (don't have inverter). Not sure if that's the culprit or not.

ScottG

If I remember correctly, the single circuit serving all the T@Bs accessible 120V receptacles has 14g wire and a 15A breaker. I agree with wizard1880, though--a 15A circuit should theoretically be able to handle up to an 1800W appliance (assuming there is nothing else operating on that circuit). An appliance drawing more than 15A/1800W would have a different plug that would only fit in a 20A receptacle.

I also pretty sure the Alde, fridge,, and air conditioner have their own dedicated circuits, so running those at the same time shouldn't cause anything to trip unless you exceed 30A for the entire trailer.

Just to clarify...  When you say the "breaker" trips I assume you are talking about the 15A circuit breaker located in the converter panel. If you are referring to the little red button located on one of the receptacles, then your issue is likely a ground fault rather than a current overload.

[Deleted User]

I tried it on each of the two side by side outlets, and also on the outlet next to the circuit breaker in the floor, and the outlet above the sink at it tripped on all three of them. Perhaps there is a bigger issue than I'm realizing?   Correct Scott, its the breaker itself that is tripping and not the red button.  I am also running the fridge on electric with the tripping occurs, but I wouldn't think all three outlets, and the fridge are on that one 15 amp circuit.  Let me look at the burner to see what the max watts are......1500 Watts.

wizard1880

It's rare, but not unheard of, for a circuit breaker to be defective.

If you have a means to measure the exact current of your cooktop, like a kill-a-watt device or an amp-clamp meter, see exactly how much your cooktop is taking.  My guess is somewhere in the 1400-1500w range.

If this can be confirmed, I would replace the circuit breaker in your panel.

Sharon_is_SAM

Wizard, is it possible, that just like an air conditioner, the initial draw is too high and that trips the breaker?  I would like to see what happens if you get the electric burner hot via a non-Tab outlet and then plug it into the Tab.

Ratkity

I was in a friend's 35' camper with 2 slides. Had the 2 way frig, the AC, the hot water all on electric because he was having a propane problem with his regulator. He kept popping the main breaker when he plugged in the crockpot and the AC came on. Even in the owner's manual, it said not to run everything on electric. 30a just wasn't made for it. Surprised, I said "30 amp? wha???" He assured me that the entire rig ran on 30 amp. Manufacturers are making rigs run on 30s instead of 50s. Was kinda shocked (pun). You'd think 30 amp would be more than sufficient to run everything in the T@B because of its size, but it has all found in a big camper (but the microwave and slides - slides have a battery power motor).

If he's running the Alde and Frig on electric, they are plugged into a wall socket under the bench and under the sink, respectively. I would bet the frig is on a GFI (code). Not sure about the Alde. Someone computed all the things running electric at the same time and came up with 27.? on a spreadsheet. I'm not sure the 15 amp thing you are experiencing is a defect. Turn off the frig and see if you flip the breaker.

ScottG

robyn769 said:

I tried it on each of the two side by side outlets, and also on the outlet next to the circuit breaker in the floor, and the outlet above the sink at it tripped on all three of them. Perhaps there is a bigger issue than I'm realizing?   Correct Scott, its the breaker itself that is tripping and not the red button.  I am also running the fridge on electric with the tripping occurs, but I wouldn't think all three outlets, and the fridge are on that one 15 amp circuit.  Let me look at the burner to see what the max watts are......1500 Watts.

@robyn769, to further clarify... It's not the main (30A) breaker that's tripping, but rather an adjacent (15A?) breaker, correct? There should be a label in your converter that tells you which breakers control which circuits, and help you identify which one is tripping. (Note however, I found mislabeled breakers in my T@B...)

If it's the main breaker that's tripping, that supports what others are saying about exceeding the total load on the camper. If it's the branch circuit breaker that's tripping, that points to an overload (or defect) in your outlet circuit or cooking device.

The Alde, fridge, and air conditioner outlets are each on their own 20A circuit. The cabin outlets (all of them) share their own different 15A circuit. (At least that's how it is in my 2015-S). Running the Alde, fridge and A/C are not going to cause the outlet circuit to trip under any normal circumstance.

If everything I've said so far still describes your problem, it's time to do a little sleuthing! Here's what I suggest...

- Unplug the A/C or the Alde, and plug your burner into that outlet and give it a try. Remember these outlets are on separate 20A circuits. If the new circuit also trips, I would guess something is shorting out in your burner and I personally would chuck it ASAP.

- If the burner works ok, now we dig deeper. Plug a different 1500-1800W heating appliance (like a hair dryer) into one of the cabin outlets. Run the appliance on high--if it runs fine I'd go back to suspecting the burner. If the new device also trips the breaker, I would suspect the breaker. But first...

- If possible, I would then test the burner on a different 15A circuit (say, in your house). However, do not judge the circuit by the appearance of the outlet--confirm that it is actually controlled by a 15A fuse or circuit breaker! If the burner works fine, then I would really turn a suspicious eye to the breaker in the camper.

I am a little perplexed that the use of a 20A circuit was not extended to the cabin outlets. The National Electrical Code requires 20A circuits in household kitchens. But for use of a slightly larger cable and circuit breaker, this feature could have been incorporated into the T@B.

Ratkity

I just realized it could be local code that mandates kitchen outlets be GFI when they are x amount of feet from the sink. I shouldn't have made a general assumption. My breakers were mislabeled as well when I got my T@B and I whipped out that label maker and "made it right!" The one thing that I did know is that the main was a double connected 15, so there was no mistaking it. It was also all the way to the left in the convert box. Of course, we know that converter boxes are wired as standard as eric's sense of humor (hence, none!). 

wizard1880

That's why I suggested using a $20 kill-a-watt to see if that stove is taking more watts than it says.  I'm betting that's the problem.  If it's one of those electric-coil style ones, they're notorious for shorting out when they get old.  But I don't know much about your cooktop...

If it does need replacement, you may want to look at a portable induction cooktop.  They can be had for under $50, and have selectable wattages (600, 900, 1000, 1200, 1300, 1400, 1500w).  The only downside is you'll need all iron (ferrous) cookware or induction compatible.  On their highest setting, they can boil water in just a couple minutes!

wizard1880

If you felt compelled or wanted to take on a large T@B project, you could replace all of your 120v outlet wiring with yellow 12ga (instead of white 14ga), and swap your breaker for a 20A.

ScottG

I think you are correct, Ratkity--the NEC does mandate GFI protection in potentially wet or damp locations. The 20A circuit requirement is different, however, and has more to do with providing enough power for appliances like toasters and hot plates that tend to be found in kitchens. In the T@B, all of the cabin outlets are linked to the one under the bench with the "red button" and are therefore GFI protected. I don't believe GFI is required for dedicated outlets such as those for the Alde, fridge and A/C.

GFI's protect people from getting shocked, while circuit breakers (or fuses) prevent wiring from overheating as a result of excess current--a potential fire hazard. robyn769's problem appears to stem from overcurrent--probably for the exact reason wizard1880 described.

wizard1880, I like the Kill-a-Watt suggestion and might add on of those to my tool box. Do you have a suggestion for a decent unit? Some of the Amazon reviewers said theirs cooked when used with high wattage appliances, even though they were still well below the unit's max rating.

wizard1880

I've found that Kill-a-watt's are OK for up to 1500W.  Anything over that, and they will actually beep at you!  And if you keep the load, I think they will overheat and be damaged.  I've only done it for a few seconds, once when I was testing an 1100w microwave--it actually took 1600w.  I learned that the 1100w is "heating" watts after the efficiency losses in the magnetron.

[Deleted User]

Hi everyone. Thanks SOO MUCH for taking the time to provide such detailed assistance.  Im quite a bit behind on the posts, so I printed it all out and underlined what I want to make sure I respond to.

I was in fact running the Alde, AC, and Fridge all on electric at the same time I was using the burner, but as Scott noted, they are all on their own breaker so that should not cause it.

I actually have the camper in for service at the moment, so duh, have them check it right! Not sure why my brain wasn't functioning when I dropped it off, but I called them back and they are checking the breaker for me. I will let you know for sure if that ended up being the cause.

To clarify, its the 15amp breaker that is co-located/attached to the 30amp breaker on the far left of the breaker panel.  Its not the main 30amp, but the little 15 amp next to it.  In fact, the 15 amp won't reset until I turn both off and then back on. 

I get the camper back next Friday, so I will try some of the suggestions especially trying the burner on the A/C or Alde outlets.  I'm sure its not the burner itself because I have two of them and both cause the breaker to trip, and if the campground has extra outlets beside the 30amp outlet, I use them and the burners work great, both of them at the same time!  This past weekend though, there were no extra outlets on the post.

The hot plate has a solid surface but its not an induction cooktop.  I will look into one of those though as I would like to be able to better control the temp.  The ones I have now have a semi-useless dial that doesn't even seem to be positioned right. I have to listen for the thermostat to kick on and off in order to know if its on or not!  So no loss here if I have to replace the hotplate.

I won't be able to post an update until I get my camper back next weekend. I will be sure to follow up with what ever I figure out so we can all learn from this experience!

Thanks again for your time in helping me figure this out.

Robyn

ScottG

Glad to be of help. I suppose if you are absolutely confident in your burner, you could run it off the dedicated 20A outlet serving the Alde or the A/C (provided you are not also using those appliances at the same time). In looking back at your OP, I realize that was the question you were actually asking...  So yes, there are "hidden" 20A outlets in the T@B!  :-)

ScottG

wizard1880 said:

If you felt compelled or wanted to take on a large T@B project, you could replace all of your 120v outlet wiring with yellow 12ga (instead of white 14ga), and swap your breaker for a 20A.

If I actually camped much with hookups and ran many appliances, I would probably do this mod. Other than getting cable up to the outlet above the sink, it really wouldn't be that big of a project for anyone with basic wiring skills.

There is one final detail worthy of note. I accidentally discovered that the 15A breaker that controls the three cabin outlets also controls power to the converter. If it's off or tripped or otherwise disconnected, the converter won't be able to run any of the camper's 12V devices (e.g., lights, fan, pump, Alde board, etc.).

I'm not sure exactly how the power to the converter is tied into that breaker, but it's something to be aware of if attempting any modifications to the 120V side of the system.

Mouseketab

I have found that for the most part I try to run external stuff from outlets on the campground pole. I've only been to one campground in 10 years of T@B camping that had "only" a 30 Amp plug. I've been to a campground that had only a 50 and a 30 Amp, so in that instance, I used my 50-30 Amp adapter to run the trailer, and used a 30-15 adapter to plug a power strip in to run my microwave, tacky lights, etc. However, most of the time, the pole usually has a couple of 110 3-prong outlets.

[Deleted User]

I just got word back from the repair shop that the circuit breaker is not bad and that the hot plate is just too powerful for the outlets I've tried.  I pick it up on Saturday and I will try the hot plate on the Alde, fridge, A/C outlets and let you know if that works. I have a feeling it will work.  I hope the fridge outlet will work with both the fridge and the hot plate on otherwise it will be too inconvenient to even use the hot plate if I have to turn off the fridge or lift the cushion every time to use the Alde outlet. I've just about decided to not even bother cooking at all while camping and just hit the local restaurants, which I love to do anyway!  I will follow up to let you know if the other outlets work or not.  I can always of course use the stove in the camper, duh! haha  I just hate to smell it up with food.  It still has that new smell after two years. 

ScottG

Thanks for the followup, robyn769. I'm not sure the power demands of the 3-way fridge, but since it involves an electric heater of some sort, I assume it's not insignificant. Given the problems you are having with the hot plate, I would only use it on a 20A circuit that had nothing else running on it. No harm in trying it out though--I'm plenty happy to be proven wrong!  :-)

Sounds like you would be the perfect candidate for wizard1880's suggested upgrade!

Ratkity

robyn769 said:

I just got word back from the repair shop that the circuit breaker is not bad and that the hot plate is just too powerful for the outlets I've tried.  I pick it up on Saturday and I will try the hot plate on the Alde, fridge, A/C outlets and let you know if that works. I have a feeling it will work.  I hope the fridge outlet will work with both the fridge and the hot plate on otherwise it will be too inconvenient to even use the hot plate if I have to turn off the fridge or lift the cushion every time to use the Alde outlet. I've just about decided to not even bother cooking at all while camping and just hit the local restaurants, which I love to do anyway!  I will follow up to let you know if the other outlets work or not.  I can always of course use the stove in the camper, duh! haha  I just hate to smell it up with food.  It still has that new smell after two years. 

If you peek under the sink (if that's where the frig outlet is on your model), you'll find it's a standard 2 plug house outlet. There's nothing that says you have to unplug the frig to use the hot plate (if the hot plate works as you are hoping). Just flick the switch to "off" on the frig for the short time you are cooking, and turn the frig back on when finished with the hot plate. It's also in a place that's convenient to cook at without using an extension cord of any type.

wizard1880

Ok you've got me curious...What's the manufacturer and model of those hot plates? 

RollingBnB

One thing not addressed is if the voltage at the campground power pole is low, the current draw (amps) will be higher.

[Deleted User]

I like Ratkity's suggestion of turning the fridge briefly off while I'm using the hotplate in the outlet. I don't think I would have thought of that. I haven't been able to camp this season other than the one time due to a back injury, but I will provide an update once I'm able to get back out there!

The manufacturer of the hotplates: One is Kenmore (from Sears) and the other one is Deni.

I've had the same issue at several different camp grounds, so I guess its not the power source.