Norcold frig won't stay lit?

Roamey

What year did they start using the vents in the side of the trailer rather than the front and did the same problem exist before the change?

dsatwork

Roamey said:

What year did they start using the vents in the side of the trailer rather than the front and did the same problem exist before the change?

They changed to the N180.3 in model year 2017...but not until after January 1st. 

TabberJohn

@dsatwork - Back draft down the exhaust pipe does sound like the probable culprit. Could it also be the reverse? Air sucked forcefully out the exhaust pipe? A single blast in either direction would blow out the pilot flame.
So the issue is what's the best remedy to mitigate that blast depending on your model/year T@B. Sounds like Verna's running of the auxiliary fan resolves it on her 2014 while strategically placed duct tape worked for Roamey's 2018.
How many different configurations are possible between Norcold model, vents, and auxiliary fan?

dsatwork

TabberJohn said:

How many different configurations are possible between Norcold model, vents, and auxiliary fan?

Just the two I think.

Michigan_Mike

Verna said:

 For those with the 2014 to 2016 Norcold 3-way fridges, do you travel with the auxiliary fan operating? I turn mine on when I light the fridge and it stays lit. I have traveled like this for two years now.  Maybe the air being exhausted doesn't any air in to extinguish the flame?

I am going to give this a try the next time I pull my trailer out of the barn.  But was told by Marvin that the frig is configured in such a way (a safety feature) that the flame will go out when the Norcold isn't level, so why others seem to stay lit (and some not) during travel is a mystery.  The Norcold guy also agrees that the unit must be level to cool properly .  

dsatwork

 @Roamey after a miserable day with the refrigerator running on 12 volt and  the temperature inside the refrigerator out of the 71°, which is not acceptable that all. Going through Redding and Shasta the outside temperature got to 105 degrees. We finally got the propane to light last night and we're able to get the refrigerator temps overnight down to 50 degrees. I decided to try your mod on the vent fan. I hope it works because we need some help with refrigerator. If this does work I will nominate you for a modification badge master modifier.

ericnliz

@dsatwork, I have found (with our 2016 T@B Max S), level is key when camping. That being said though, I have not had the issues some folks have while traveling with the fridge running on propane. Even over 6 to 8% grades it stayed lit. This last trip we were boondocking with solar panels for the battery energy, and auxiliary fan for the fridge. I have a thermometer inside my fridge, and temps stayed between 36*, and 38*. I even had to turn it down once, as the outside temp dropped, and the fridge went as low as 32* inside. The other thing I have noticed, is that when you get things either in, or out of the fridge, try to limit the "open door" to a minimum amount of time, as the cold escapes from the fridge QUICKLY, especially in warmer temps. I've had this experience even in temps up to 100*, and the fridge still performed well. 
These things all being said, what I have noticed, and adjusted for, is that with the trailer door in the open, and secured position, the countertop gets considerably warmer than when closed. I need to run my auxiliary fan WAY more often with the door open. It is my belief, that with the door open, it limits the air flow considerably.
I hope this helps, and know how frustrating it must be to not have your fridge working to it's capabilities. Please let us know of any new discoveries, and hang in there!!!

dsatwork

Stayed on with propane for about two hours on the road.... then it blew out....so that didn't work for us. Put it back on 12v for balance of the drive from Portland, Oregon to Burlington Washington. Ended up here with the fridge at 63 degrees....the produce should be salvageable, but we lost any meat the wasn't eaten the first day. Need a fridge that works!

Roamey

My next trip the duct tape didn't work and the refrigerator was up in the fifties again jeopardizing our food. Needless to say, I'm extremely disappointed with the performance of the refrigerator in the T@B. 

Verna

Have you guys tried contacting Norcold? The Norcold info should be included with a new T@B purchase. Be sure to have the model number handy. I know they do not diagnose propane problems, but at least you could get info from the manufacturer. They will never hear it from this forum since only owners frequent here. 

ericnliz

@dsatwork, I'd have to agree with @Verna about contacting Norcold. Sounds like you're having problems outside the realm of what would be considered normal operations. Is your T@B still under the 1 year warranty, & if so, would a warranty on your fridge be in line if the problem can't be repaired? Really sorry to hear you're having the issues at all. Please keep us updated to what you find out. Thanks.

Ratkity

I know this doesn't solve your Norcold issue, but the ARB coolers are amazing and use so little amperage - awesome coolers. It can't fit where the Norcold is and I'm not suggesting you install one in your camper, I'm suggesting using it in your TV as a supplement to the Norcold.

ericnliz

@dsatwork, I'm going to throw something out here that I have discovered with my Norcold while on propane that doesn't seem to make sense, but works. I have found to get the maximum cooling temps out of my fridge, putting the "colder" selector above, and to the coldest selection actually hinders the ability to make the fridge colder. Try between the two snowflakes & three snowflakes, and see if it makes a difference. If I turn mine all the way up, it actually doesn't get as cold as turning it down to the area I just described to you. Doesn't make any sense, but it has worked for me. Might as well, at this point, give it a try. Hope this helps, and might be worth a shot to help out on your trip. Got my fingers crossed for 'ya! ( By the way, I discovered this with the "trial & error" method)!

Dalehelman

On a previous RV the frig would sometimes blow out. I installed some open cell foam to the inside of the vent. This would defuse the wind gusts that were  blowing out the flame. Never had the problem again

janet_nc

I drove to the NC mountains with the Norcold on propane this past weekend. It stayed lit the whole time, but did have trouble cooling. I suspect the 100 degree temps and 100% humidity. For shorter trips, battery travel is fine, but I was bringing food for a potluck and propane keeps the fridge the coldest. I've never had it un-light while traveling. Before travel, I always run it on electic at least overnight to start the cool-down process, but that didn't work very well this time. 

dsatwork

@Verna we have approval for repairs on Norcold for the flame indicator and the AC indicator light. We even had it in for repair, but the parts didn't make it on time. So we repossessed the T@b so we could go on this trip. I do have major concerns about this new Norcold 180.3 with the side double vents and no fan design. I haven't heard anyone that has said it works well on 12 volt when temps get above 90. We can't complain about using it on propane while towing, because no one recommends using it on propane while towing. But I'm hoping that we can add an auxiliary fan that will help with keeping it cooler while towing on 12 volt. If anyone has done that with a 2017 side vent model, I would love to know how that is working.

@ericnliz believe you me....I have have already been on Amazon to see how much the ARB 37 would cost and could we get it delivered to my kids house in time for the trip home. The next thought was, do I really need it for the trip home and the answer to that question ultimately is no. So we'll wait because the Norcold dealer assured me that they can get us in as soon as we get back. Now the door seal is coming off too. arrg

Dalehelman

All of these propane frigs use to be 110 and gas only. So you had no choice but to run on gas while under way. Our first one was in 1972 and I have been doing it ever since. But if you are not comfortable then don't. Keep in mind you probably sleep with it running on gas. Just saying.

Roamey

It seems @Dalehelman has the answer with the open cell foam inside the vent. It would certainly look better than the duct tape. 

dsatwork

@Dalehelman don't get me wrong...I would do it in a heartbeat. I'm just saying that I can't lodge an official complaint, because officially you're not supposed to be using it that way.

Dalehelman

dsatwork said:

@Dalehelman don't get me wrong...I would do it in a heartbeat. I'm just saying that I can't lodge an official complaint, because officially you're not supposed to be using it that way.

I have never looked. Having said that I have never seen it stated not to be  operated in a moving vehicle. I have seen it stated turn off when  fueling. So it must have been on for you to get to where you are fueling right.

Roamey

PV decides which refrigerator to purchase from a supplier. It seems to me it is then up to them to make sure it is properly installed to work under normal conditions while camping to keep our food properly refrigerated and safe to eat, and with all components safely routed.  But then in the manual they say: "NOTE:  Do not travel with your refrigerator on propane as it may blow out causing the refrigerator to stop cooling." That leaves them off the hook and us slapping on duct tape, filters, and fans in an effort to get it to refrigerate properly. We shouldn't have to be worried at the end of each days drive whether our food is spoiled.

@Janet_nc, looking at your profile picture, I see your T@B S has one side vent. Mine has two, so it is a different configuration.

 Some refrigerators have 1 fan, or 2 fans, or no fans. As a new T@B S owner it is hard to follow which refrigerators have which problems. My PV manual pictures a refrigerator control panel that I don't even have. Of course I didn't see the manual until after I bought the T@B and then read that the propane won't work while driving.  Bottom line for those reading to learn about T@B S, the early build 2018s still have the problem of the propane for the fridge blowing out while driving that has apparently been present since 2014.  I put a screen behind the lower outside grill, then added a strip of duct tape to shield the flame and had no more problems while driving 3,000+ miles home. There are no fans and the refrigerator doesn't need any battery to run on propane. I can't speak to over heating because we haven't camped under those conditions. 

I have to update refrigerator experience. On my next trip, the propane was blowing out again and refrigerator temperature rose into fifties. In my opinion, the T@B 3-way refrigerator design, for whatever reason, does not work and is a big problem. We should be able to travel and camp without our food spoiling. 

jkjenn

Roamey said:

PV decides which refrigerator to purchase from a supplier. It seems to me it is then up to them to make sure it is properly installed to work under normal conditions while camping to keep our food properly refrigerated and safe to eat, and with all components safely routed.  But then in the manual they say: "NOTE:  Do not travel with your refrigerator on propane as it may blow out causing the refrigerator to stop cooling." That leaves them off the hook and us slapping on duct tape, filters, and fans in an effort to get it to refrigerate properly. We shouldn't have to be worried at the end of each days drive whether our food is spoiled. @Janet_nc, looking at your profile picture, I see your T@B S has one side vent. Mine has two, so it is a different configuration. Some refrigerators have 1 fan, or 2 fans, or no fans. As a new T@B S owner it is hard to follow which refrigerators have which problems. My PV manual pictures a refrigerator control panel that I don't even have. Of course I didn't see the manual until after I bought the T@B and then read that the propane won't work while driving.  Bottom line for those reading to learn about T@B S, the early build 2018s still have the problem of the propane for the fridge blowing out while driving that has apparently been present since 2014.  I put a screen behind the lower outside grill, then added a strip of duct tape to shield the flame and had no more problems while driving 3,000+ miles home. There are no fans and the refrigerator doesn't need any battery to run on propane. I can't speak to over heating because we haven't camped under those conditions. 

I think you are mistaken. It's not a problem; the fridges installed in the T@bs are not designed to be lit while driving. Yes, larger RVs have fridges that are meant for being lit while driving, but they have a different relighting mechanism than the ones on these smaller fridges. 

The 320s, prior to late 2017, starting in mid 2015, had an auxiliary fan installed to help with heat build-up. Those fridges had a different design and that model is no longer produced by Norcold.

The new design has a second vent but it also serves as access to clean the burner assembly, which should be done every few years to keep the fridge functioning on propane, properly. On the old models, the entire fridge had to be disconnected and pulled out to access for this maintenance.

Roamey

I have to depend on the published manuals as I don't have knowledge built-up from years of use, therefore I'm trying to get a feel from the practical experience of members such as yourself combined with my 2018 T@B. The Norcold manual places no restrictions on the use of propane. The only mention of flame blow out is that the safety valve shuts off the gas when that occurs.  It is the NuCamp manual that warns that loss of cooling while driving will occur due to flame blow out. Maybe it is due to the small size of the camper and the design limitations. Norcold states the best ventilation design is through the roof. The least efficient choice is through the sidewall. Maybe esthetics is taking priority over efficiency. I can see that over the years this refrigerator topic has been beaten to death. Unfortunately every new owner has to start anew to experience it for themselves and turn to the forum again. I went in thinking the 2018 would be new and improved, but I feel there is still room for more improvement. 
If I have this correct, from 2013 through part of 2017 model build, the T@B S used Norcold model 3163 which started out with one cooling fan. A second was added due to overheating complaints. There is one vent on the side and use of the camper battery is required for the refrigerator controls and fans. Starting sometime during the 2017 model build, Norcold model N 180.3 replaced  the previous model and two vents were placed on the exterior side wall. There are no fans presently and the propane ignitor is a manual push button. The battery is not required when running on propane. 

jkjenn

Roamey said:

I have to depend on the published manuals as I don't have knowledge built-up from years of use, therefore I'm trying to get a feel from the practical experience of members such as yourself combined with my 2018 T@B. The Norcold manual places no restrictions on the use of propane. The only mention of flame blow out is that the safety valve shuts off the gas when that occurs.  It is the NuCamp manual that warns that loss of cooling while driving will occur due to flame blow out. Maybe it is due to the small size of the camper and the design limitations. Norcold states the best ventilation design is through the roof. The less efficient choice is through the sidewall. Maybe esthetics is taking priority over efficiency. I can see that over the years this refrigerator topic has been beaten to death. Unfortunately every new owner has to start anew to experience it for themselves and turn to the forum again. I went in thinking the 2018 would be new and improved, but I feel there is still room for more improvement. 

I feel that fridges are the weak points to all RVs and that is the result of a lack of healthy competition. There are 2 US fridge manufacturers for RVS: Dometic and Norcold. Dometic supplies Norcold with most of their parts. They have little motivation for improving their products or training people to fix them, unfortunately. As far as venting, I have never seen a smaller RV vent through the roof. Not saying it couldn't be done, but I would think that would bring complication of its own. 

I bought an ARB for my TV to ease the fridge pain.

dsatwork

Well today we started our trek back from Bellingham WA ending at a winery somewhere between Grants Pass and Eugene OR. Harvest Host and I would be glad to share,if anyone is interested. But the curious thing is that after lighting the fridge with a lighter, (another story about how it needs warranty work) the fridge stayed on all day. OK this was the longest drive ever made between these points on the map and even Google was asking us if we wanted to pull over because we had been on the road for 7 hours. So we were not going more than 25 at times while we traveled through Portland....but we were going 70 mph whenever the opportunity presented itself. Go figure...at least my turkey didn't spoil today. Tomorrow will be the real test temps in the high 90s.

drpprmt

We are among those very owners that are very frustrated with the frig.  We have a new 2017 max S that has the 2 front vents, side vent with fan, and lower vent thru the floor.  We have taken steps to insure the lower vent will not get blocked.  I am very concerned about using the frig on 12v because of increase strain on the tv alternator.  I am thinking about trying an experiment on our next trip and would like feedback.  While traveling and using the refrig on gas I am thinking about leaving the refrig fan on and taping shut the two front vents.  My thought is that with the fan on it will keep air circulating thru the floor vent but will not have the 60mph wind thru the front vents.  Any thoughts?

ericnliz

@drpprmt , Pretty sure those 2 front vents are exhaust vents for the propane burner. Don't think you want to cover those up.I have a 2016 MAX S with the same set-up as yours. I travel with mine on propane all the time without issues. I think I've had it blow out only once. This is going over mountain ranges as well as flat with speeds up to 70 MPH, and in windy conditions.  I have found, that when lighting on propane, open the gas valve SLOWLY, then light one of the stove burners to get the gas flowing. I then light the fridge, and HOLD the button for at least 30 seconds to ensure it stays lit. I set the refrigerator on about 3 to 3 1/2 on the cooling selector, as any higher than that seems to not work as efficiently. One thing I have found that you might try is that I leave the front window open on the "notch" position, and leave my top vent open about 1". I DO NOT use my fridge on 12 volt, as it is very inefficient, and seems to have only one setting, no matter how you turn the cooling dial. The settings I use usually give a cooling factor of 34* to 36*. All these things being said, the counter top does get warm, not hot. The only time it gets very warm is when the trailer is set up at the camp site, level. I use the auxiliary fan to cool it off, then turn it back off again. I have read over & over about the problems folks have with these refrigerators. I think I've only used shore power for the fridge 3 times, except to give it a good "pre-cool" the day before we leave on a trip. Since we boondock about 80 to 90% of the time, and I use 100 watt solar power to maintain my battery, setting the fridge on battery power is the LEAST efficient. I have 28 days of camping on the same tank of propane, and still have about 1/4 of a tank left. That also includes running the Alde for hot water, and heat. Not sure if we just got lucky with our fridge, or what the case may be. Just makes me wonder what could be causing the problems some of you folks are experiencing. All I feel I can do is share what works for us, and hope it helps someone else out.
Eric

Roamey

@drpprmt, maybe you've seen this already, at least one forum member has said she leaves the auxiliary fan on while driving and has never had the flame go out. 
@jkjenn, I had to tell you that I was curious about the Tabbert T@B 320 RS refrigerator. It uses a Dometic 2.1 cf and states specifically in the manual not to use propane while driving; probably because it has an auto igniter. 

Had I known ahead of time about the refrigerator and propane, I probably would have moved the T@B off the top of my search list. But now that I have it, I really like the u-shaped dinnette and sofa; it is a nice, wide bed, and the large, swing-out windows, and the Lagun table. It really is a cute, unique camper. We all have different requirements and expectations. 

dsatwork

Today we had the propane blow out twice.... but we got 30 hours of cooling before it blew out. All day yesterday and till about 4 pm today I had to relight the propane and it was off again when we pulled in to our harvest host winery about 7 pm. Today we filled a small bag of ice at the subway when we stopped for lunch. We through it in the tray we keep just below the cooling fins and next to the fan we have to circulate the air. I think it helped as the fridge stayed at about 50 degrees even with the outside temperature at at 107 as we went through redding. 

Michigan_Mike

Roamey said:

@drpprmt, maybe you've seen this already, at least one forum member has said she leaves the auxiliary fan on while driving and has never had the flame go out. 

Verna had mentioned trying this and I did leave the auxiliary fan on and tried driving this way on the way down to üCamp17 to see if it made a difference in keeping the Norcold frig lit.  Nope!  I drove for around 40 miles and when I pulled off the road the frig was off.  I do plan to pull the frig and clean the igniter area and inspect things.  I'm also going to look the vent area over good and consider fabricating a sheet metal cowling behind the vent to eliminate any backdraft and see if that changes things up any.

My ARB performed flawlessly in the  back of my pick up truck! One thing I would like to note about the ARB, that it runs efficiently with a heavy gauge extension cord. I would caution people against using a smaller gauge, inexpensive extension cord as this created issues with my built in inverter in my 2017 Silverado pick up.  I purchased a heavy duty extension cord specifically for my ARB and this has corrected the prior issue  which I attributed to heating of the extension cord.