Thunderstorm tips?

gophergrad

Newbie question -  Anything in particular I need to know about riding out a short thunderstorm in the T@b?  Likely won't be driving, should be set up by then, but decent chance of strongish, short thunderstorms Saturday afternoon.  Can I leave the shore power and water hooked up? Do I need to put a baggie over the power pedestal?  Thanks

Verna

I try to point the rear of the T@B to the direction the wind will be coming from, if there will be wind. Make sure your stabiles are tight to the ground.

There's no need to put anything over the pedestal as it stand there in the rain 365 days a year. Leave your power and water hooked up, put a DVD in and enjoy an afternoon of movies. Or put some smooth jazz on and take a nap. 

Sunny Day and I have ridden out a lot of storms in my T@B and, yes, we can take a nap during the storm just as we can at home. 

Enjoy the miracle of nature. 

Michigan_Mike

A few suggestions I'll offer up is to make sure you check each campground when you enter and ask if they have a storm shelter should things get particularly nasty via an approaching storm front.  Many of us also carry along a weather radio that will alert you to approaching storms and allow you to react quicker and seek safety should things turn ugly.  I along with many others have been in some precarious spots while traveling and I am always looking at my sites and taking into consideration trees and the risk of them falling on my trailer, vehicle, etc.  I have gone so far as to drive in opposite directions when possible and out of the path of an approaching weather system when possible and packed up and stowed gear to keep things safe and intact.  These can be scary times when traveling but it's always best to leave yourself an out, stay to the high ground, protect your belongings and seek shelter and safety should an approaching storm place you and your family in jeopardy.  You can always replace a trailer, but you cannot replace a lost life....  As far as electrical is concerned, it wouldn't hurt to unplug the power cord and wait out the storm as lightning will follow a power line and seek out the quickest path to ground, which could easily end up inside the trailer.  I've seen a lot of lightning damage and it is unpredictable and powerful.  As long as the trailer is insulated (e.g, via the tires, plastic pads under the stabilizers and the trailer tongue jack, etc.) and you have eliminated any ground contact that is obviously your best bet.  

I'm sure others will add in some excellent advice/tips and their experiences as well.  

jgram2

@Verna said: 

discussion by Verna ·  June 25  ·  Tips & Tricks

Throw one of your patio rugs over the T@B for hail protection. If wind is in the forecast, I put ratchet straps on it to hold the rug in place. 

abenteurer

NO, NO, NO!  Do NOT disconnect shore power.  AC current and a grounded electrical system are protective against lightning strikes - reason unknown to me.  Stay in your trailer and don't shower or touch metal trailer parts.  ID early a place to shelter during high wind threats.

Photomom

I was wondering about this too. When we tent camped we'd always make a run for the nearest Faraday cage (I.e. the car) and we'd always get soaked. One thing I would do is disconnect any electronic doodads that you have charging.

Interested in other opinions about whether to unplug the trailer. I'd think a lightning strike would fry the converter, Alde, and fridge electronics.

Ratkity

There's nothing you can do with the permanent electronics in time for a surprise strike, but preemptively unplugging charging ipads, phones, tablets is the best you can do. Like Mom always said, "don't take a shower and don't touch the metal that is the ground wherever you are".

(Story Time) As kids, we swam competitively all year 'round. Summer t-storms were the norm. 'Hear thunder' and life guards got everyone out of the pool and into the gymnastics building next to the pools with all of us moaning and groaning since it was just a little thunder and no clouds were in the sky. We used to hang our towels on the fence next to the gym. During those times we'd hop out of the pool, grab our towels and go inside (fans only - and it was HOT). There had to be a certain time without thunder before we could go back and cool off in the water before practice. We always thought getting out of the pool was an exercise in futility.... until the day the littlest swimmer was having a time getting the towel off the fence and someone helped. Both were made it inside just fine - but shortly thereafter, lightning struck the fence (the gym door was still open). You could smell the ozone. There wasn't black clouds above the pool. The sun was still out. There was no rain. The guards just heard thunder. Made us all believers! It also made us all immediately get out and to safety without grumbling or lagging behind in the future thunder warnings. I'm not sure any of us actually saw the lightning because it happened so fast, but we heard it. Of course, the story spread from person to person until the swimmers were closer and closer to being struck. They weren't, but experiencing the fence strike was enough.

Photomom

Worst experience for me was when a shuttle dropped a group of us off on top of a mountain in the Catskills and took off. A hellacious lightning storm struck before we could all even get our packs on. Nothing for it but to spread out and start hiking down as quickly as we could. Most scared I've ever been outdoors. 

Ratkity

Photomom said:

Interested in other opinions about whether to unplug the trailer. I'd think a lightning strike would fry the converter, Alde, and fridge electronics.

It depends on what the lightning has struck. If it strikes the tallest object (a tree), there's probably not a chance it'll affect the campground electrical system.

If it strikes the camper and you are in it, there's nothing you will be able to do about the electronics. Dad said the fuses aren't fast enough. Both your vehicle and camper are floating grounds though and you should be fine inside. I'm curious about the jack, however.... If there's a wheel, your camper is still a floating ground. If the jack leg is on the ground with a metal foot, is the camper now fully grounded to the earth and not considered a floating ground? If plugged in, you are grounded to the campground electrical system.

If you have an electronic jack, I'd assume the electronics would blow if wired to the battery and you'd have to manually jack it up - unless you set up a 7 pin plug so you adjust the jack via your TV battery and not the camper battery (which is the way I wanted to go to save battery power for extended boondock weekends).

Homebodyatheart

@Ratkity what if the jack and metal foot were on a piece of plywood? Interesting thread!

Ratkity

Homebodyatheart said:

@Ratkity what if the jack and metal foot were on a piece of plywood? Interesting thread!

Then it wouldn't be touching the ground and you'd still be in a floating ground state. That said, how many people pick up their chains and not allow them to touch the ground (ok, bet some do, but I don't lol)? That would also cause an earth-ground effect.

Homebodyatheart

Um... @Ratkity, I always wind mine around the jack on the tongue. It's part of keeping things tidy, an old camping trait I learned from my dad, and probably also Girl Scouts. 
  

Sharon_is_SAM

What about the metal stabilizers.  How do they impact our susceptibility?

gophergrad

Thanks for the tips.  We've both ridden out a lot of storms in tents and sometimes the car.  This storm was very brief, and little lightning, just strong wind.  Plastic pads under the stablizers and a board under the jack.  Left it plugged in to shore power, had not hooked the water up yet when it started to rain.  It was pretty fun, all things considered.

Re the power question.  We have the external Progressive surge thingy.  The male end of that goes in the pedestal and is covered by whatever cover is on the pedestal, but the line from the T@b to the Progressive just plugs in.... no cover, no gasket, nada.  I put a plastic bag over it, and added some rocks to keep it from blowing away.  But is it OK to leave that connection out in the rain?

Homebodyatheart

@gophergrad I believe the connectors are made to be left out in the elements. I've got the Progressive SP too, and have never had issues, including rolling downpours over two days. I also wrapped my 7 pin up in plastic with a rubber band, and water got in anyway. Now I leave it hanging down off the tongue, but not hitting the ground. That was a great tip I got on this forum. Good luck!

jkjenn

I usually have plastic pads under my stabilizers and the jockey wheel is plastic....hmmmm...not really grounded. I rode out a good lightning storm when I was overnighting at a Walmart in Omaha last year. There was a tornado about 15 min north of us. If it would have come our way, that Walmart would have had a violator of their no pets policy. Oddly, enough, I didn't really have any major storms when I camped in Colorado last summer. The storms routinely were to my south and north.

Michigan_Mike

SAM said:

What about the metal stabilizers.  How do they impact our susceptibility?

The stabilizers (unless you place plastic pads beneath them) provide a quick path to ground.  The characteristics of electricity and lightning are that both seek the quickest path to ground.   This is why people like heavy equipment operators, drivers involved in car/pole accidents, etc. are electrocuted when they step down from equipment/or step out of a vehicle (with downed power lines on them) after making contact with a power line, as the electricity uses their body and the contact with earth (via the equipment/vehicle) to go straight to ground.  And inasmuch as rubber tires do provide some insulation from electricity there are times when they have melted down the tires via higher voltages and the vehicle or equipment burn up if fuse protection doesn't operate effectively.  

And this isn't intended as a point of argument, but I personally would eliminate any potential ground contact to the trailer and agree, the safety chains on the ground provided a path to ground, as does the trailer jack.   If things do get real dicey lightning wise, I will head to my vehicle or the nearest shelter.   In most instances people are going to ride some of these severe thunder storms out and probably wouldn't think about the power cord, chains, stabilizers, etc.  

This is all personal choice and everyone will react differently in these situations, but for me personally, I will always err on the side of safety and what my gut feeling tells me at the time and depending on the weather conditions in protecting both myself, my family and anyone around me.   The recent tragic/fatal flash flood in Arizona this past weekend is a good example of how things can seem normal, yet turn deadly in an instant and catch innocent and unsuspecting individuals off guard as Mother Nature knows no bounds and can deal a fatal blow when you least expect it.   Stay to the high ground, leave yourself an out, seek out a good shelter if one is available and remain safe.  

Ratkity

Homebodyatheart said:

Um... @Ratkity, I always wind mine around the jack on the tongue. It's part of keeping things tidy, an old camping trait I learned from my dad, and probably also Girl Scouts. 
  

I think I was a "fail" as a GS. I did sell a lot of cookies!! I *knew* someone would pick up chains and be neat. @SAM I forgot about the stabilizers. D'oh... maybe I've been struck by lightning already and didn't know it!!

Ratkity

I've been thinking about the flash floods of AZ. The same thing happened in a SC camping area (and swimming hole) downstream of a big t-storms waaaaay up the mountain. This was a sunny day and trapped 2 people (they were rescued). We weren't there, but we frequently camped on the banks of that river and would have had to wave bye-bye to all camping equipment. The water rose incredibly fast.

Thoughts to all the folks in the path of these storms. Please stay safe!

ChanW

Re: the stabilizers... Never leave all 4 of them down in a lightning storm. Always retract one of them. Lightning strikes only even numbers of grounding points, and prefers a square to a triangle....



  
(Not really) - though I did hear that when on a mountain and above tree-line in a lightning storm (and the shuttle van is driving away), you should get next to a large boulder, not touching it, and stand in a crouch, on 1 foot (good luck with that), to prevent 'ground lightning' a possible path through your body.

But of course anyone that these methods didn't work for, is not around to attest...

Ratkity

Wut I know fer shure: Do NOT stand under a tree, on a golf course, with one of those big ol' 'golf umbrellers' open to keep dry. Apparently, you jus' put an X on yerself to da lightning gawds. Jus' say buhbye to dem expensive Walmart sneakers. You ain't staying in em long!  

Sharon_is_SAM

OK.  I learned something here.  I will make sure to use the plastic pads under the stabilizers and jack.  Thought those were only good for muddy areas, but it makes sense that these help to isolate from ground.  I work in an operating room with isolated power (different from regular grounded power) and it protects from an electrical fault if you touch a single piece of faulty equipment while making contact with the OR floor.  If you touch 2 pieces of faulty equipment, then too bad for you - all bets are off

abenteurer

Boo, good point.  Guess I should have qualified my statement by emphasizing a direct lightning strike affecting people inside the trailer.  I agree that electrical equipment can be affected by a strike anywhere, even miles away, that causes a spike in electrical voltage/current through the equipment.  A structure like a tent or even a pole barn without electricity offers no protection to people.  A sheet metal vehicle or a metal skinned trailer does offer protection in that it tends to dissipate energy around the contents.  The dialectric strength of air is ~3 million volts per meter(3 MV/m). After a 500 MV lightning strike travels 150 or so meters to ground, that last few inches of air between the trailer's metal frame and ground won't matter much.  Tires and thin pads under stabilizers made of polyethylene or polystyrene with a dielectric strength of ~19 MV/m won't matter either.  That said, I've felt quite comfortable in my T@B during dozens of intense lightning storms.  Like Verna said, put on a DVD and enjoy your time.

jkjenn

Ratkity said:

Homebodyatheart said:

Um... @Ratkity, I always wind mine around the jack on the tongue. It's part of keeping things tidy, an old camping trait I learned from my dad, and probably also Girl Scouts. 
  

I think I was a "fail" as a GS. I did sell a lot of cookies!! I *knew* someone would pick up chains and be neat. @SAM I forgot about the stabilizers. D'oh... maybe I've been struck by lightning already and didn't know it!!

True story: the Girl Scout council HQ is in my building at work and they sell cookies all year. I have managed to avoid buying any, yet. 

I agree with Mike on erring on the side of safety. I keep out of slot canyons when the risk of flash flood is moderate or higher. I asked a ranger at Zion what "moderate" meant and she said rangers don't go into slots when the risk in moderate. 

Stay safe, friends.

ScottG

Interesting thread, and a topic that seems to be a subject of debate even among more authoritative resources. Much of the disagreement may depend on where the surge is coming from, and whether you are talking about protecting equipment or your own skin. Here's my thoughts, which may very well be worth what you are paying for them...

- To the extent that lighting may affect the campground's power distribution system, disconnecting from shore power will prevent damage to electronics should a power surge come through the pedestal.

- In the event of a direct lightening strike on your trailer, your best bet is to curl tightly into a fetal position, as that will afford you the best opportunity to kiss your camper and probably your butt goodbye. The gajillion volts that just jumped from the sky to your trailer are not going to be kept from reaching their destination (the ground) by your skimpy tires or 1" pads of damp plastic.

In such a situation, I'd be inclined to assist that lightening along its journey by deploying as many stabilizers, jacks, chains, strings of party lights and other metal doo-dads as possible. In theory, less resistance in the conductor (in this case you and your T@B) means less heat build-up and possibly less damage.

YMMV. If you are really concerned and certain it's not your time to go, seek shelter in a sturdy, properly grounded building!  

Michigan_Mike

If I know a strong storm is eminent I will always head to the nearest shelter or ride it out in my vehicle and away from any trees, power lines, poles or wind blown objects.   I've ridden out a few storms in trailers and felt a strong gust down at Tearstock last year that took out some pop-up canopies, visors, etc.   I've seen a ton of lightning related damage in my career, replaced many poles/cross-arms, transformers, lightning arrestors, etc. due to lightning strikes and remember one of our lineman getting knocked down in a bucket truck after a lightning bolt hit the line quite a distance away from him and he saw the fireball racing toward him, but was unable to get out of its path.  Likely he survived with minimal injuries...  Bottom line, it's unpredictable, it can hit in areas that appear to be clear skies, when you least expect it and the strength of a lightning bolt is massive and I have nothing but respect for it.  

This guy is an electrical engineer in the RV field and offers up his perspective on what to do and what not to do when a lightning storm is present:  

https://youtu.be/xl76kLLvHOI?t=183

Ratkity

@Michigan_Mike, that was so cool! Loved the video.

One word of caution, when running into the concrete building out of a hail storm (scenario - 1986, Big Bend, TX - Window Trail area), one lady stood too close to one of the few windows in the building. It was not tempered. The hail broke it and glass sliced her arm. Fortunately, we had an MD in our group and patched her up. The nearest hospital was 1 hr away. Then medics and our doc (meeting in the middle) had to wait for water to wash through the "dips" in the roads. People who have lived in TX know about these. Never drive through them.

Buildings are safest. Do as you Mom always told you. Stay away from the windows (and don't shower!! lol).

Sharon_is_SAM

Think my parents were trying to cut their losses - told me to shower!

Ratkity

@SAM It might have been smelling you after working hard outside in the summer sun or getting you electrocuted. I guess they took their chances! LOL.

Sharon_is_SAM

Still here - still stink

Ratkity

SAM said:

Still here - still stink

I think your 'rents forgot to tell you the secret ingredient for showers... SOAP!!