Converter failure

ColoradoJon

Well, it appears that my WFCO 8735 is shot.  No 12V power when connected to shore power (batteries disconnected).  Of course it is just out of warranty!  Grrr...

Volt meter tests show .7 volts at the battery cables and across the fuses, so it seems that it has just given up.  Unless I am missing something it seems that a replacement is required.  Should I replace it with the same WFCO converter or try the Progressive Dynamics PD4135?  Anyone out there have some input or experience with the PD4135?

Ratkity

@ColoradoJon, best of luck to you! the WFCO seems to be the standard in the RV industry, but there was a batch that had a high failure rate. I don't know anything about PD ones. Best to spend time on the other RV forums talking about WFCO vs PD. You might find it's as contentious as Canon vs Nikon, or even as crazy as the "best" way to make coffee. 

Best of luck to you! Keep us posted on what you find.

Edited to add: V just said the bad batch were Elixir, and they are out of biz. Still keep us posted!

ColoradoJon

Thanks, @Ratkity - the good news is that I boondock only and charge my batteries with an external charger, so the converter is technically not required for my usage.  I would still like a functioning converter, though, so I am just beginning my research and planning to replace it.

So far I see no difference between the WFCO and the PD.  Output specs appear to be identical so it does not look like there is any advantage to the PD.  6 to one, half dozen to the other, I suppose.

rfuss928

There were some common mechanical failures of the leads of a few of the larger components on the circuit board caused by shock and vibration while towing.  No 12V output was the common symptom.  There are some discussions about the repairs on the Yahoo T@B forum.  Generally just re-soldering a broken lead or two and adding some glue to help support the component was all that was needed.
I had repaired mine a couple times but finally replaced it with a new identical unit.  Before installation I opened it up and, using hot glue, reinforced the large components attachment to the circuit board so they were not just hanging from their leads.  This modified unit has had no problems in over three years of use.

ColoradoJon

@rfuss928 - interesting.  Maybe I'll pull it out today and check it out.  Thanks for the tip!

Ratkity

This is interesting information to me. Basically, the converter just basically an in-line fuse box for the 12V side and performs no other functions. Is this the basic premise? The 110V side is more complex. Some of the 110V inputs need breakers for A/C and outlets, while circuitry takes at least one line of the 110V and converts it to 12V plus includes a battery charger. 

rfuss928

ColoradoJon
Here are links to some photos of the problem areas from the "*Electrical" photo files @ Yahoo

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/tabtrailers/photos/albums/561338276/lightbox/1404526128?orderBy=ordinal&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL#

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/tabtrailers/photos/albums/561338276/lightbox/859223041?orderBy=ordinal&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL#

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/tabtrailers/photos/albums/561338276/lightbox/1415946805?orderBy=mtime&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/tabtrailers/photos/albums/561338276/lightbox/886122445?orderBy=mtime&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL

ColoradoJon

Thanks for the links, @rfuss928.  Sadly after spending most of the day checking over my converter I cannot find any problems with it.  It is just over a year old and is very clean, new looking inside.  I will attempt calling WFCO support today but I doubt there is anything that can be done.

Appreciate the help!!

Michigan_Mike

ColoradoJon said:

Thanks for the links, @rfuss928.  Sadly after spending most of the day checking over my converter I cannot find any problems with it.  It is just over a year old and is very clean, new looking inside.  I will attempt calling WFCO support today but I doubt there is anything that can be done.

Appreciate the help!!

Keep us posted as it will be interesting what the manufacturer says about a year old unit.  I would also call the factory and speak to Marvin Raber as they may help you out too.  I would let them know that you boondock and that the converter is seldom used.  How often do you plug the trailer into shore power?  

ColoradoJon

It seems that my wife has discovered that there is a loose wire somewhere.  While removing the front panel so she could run some volt meter tests for me all of the 12V power suddenly came on.  She believes that the white wire behind the unit was loose in the distribution bar.  She wasn't able to get the power to go off by wiggling the wires, though, so we are unsure what exactly is loose, if anything.  By the way - WFCO phone support was pretty good.

I now have 12V power to the camper through the converter but am at a loss to explain exactly why.  I suppose all I can do is to keep an eye on it in case it happens again.

The trailer is always plugged in to shore power when home, during the camping season.  I disconnect it through the winter, though.

Verna

@ColoradoJon, there have been at least new instance where the wire wasn't inserted into a butt splice all of the way, so the was wasn't making contact. If you can, gently pull on each wire going into a splice behind the WFCO. If not.....at least you tried. 

rfuss928

If "wiggling the wires" might have flexed the converter chassis or the connections inside, I would still be considering a circuit board issue. 
I was led to the trouble spot in my converter by sparks at the broken resistor lead.
OR
If the white wire was the neutral side of the AC supply, it would interrupt the power to the converter.  You may want to double check the AC connections inside the converter - circuit breakers, neutral and ground.

Someone once referred to the ride in the trailer as a rolling earthquake.  Everything in there really gets shaken during travel.

ScottG

On mine (2015-S) the converter appears to be powered via the same 15A breaker that controls the cabin receptacles. I'm not sure exactly how it's wired together inside, but--as noted by rfuss928--a loose connection on either the hot leg or the neutral would result in no 120V power to the converter, and thus no 12V power to the camper.

I would at least rule that out before casting suspicion on the circuit board.

ColoradoJon

Thanks, all!  Very peculiar, and I've checked a lot of things already.  I am really sure that the electronics are ok and WFCO support confirmed that - the telling clue for them was turning off all breakers and then turning them on resulted in power to the Alde panel and smoke/co2 alarms, although briefly.  It would all shut off just as soon as it came on.  They said that it had to be an internal wiring issue based on that symptom alone.

I think @Verna is on to something - I did not think of checking those butt splices!  When I get time this week I will check them out.

ColoradoJon

Well, the converter has failed again and no amount of wiggling wires or internal components has helped.  I'm back to square one on this one, dang it.  Looks like I will need to call WFCO support again.

Ratkity

I think @rfuss928 was right about flexing the board or having a bad solder joint on the board. Time to call again. 

I have an irreplaceable remote to my gas fireplace (no universals? geesh!). I keep it quietly in one place and it's velcro'd. It resets itself periodically. I wiggle the batteries gently, press the temp limit buttons gently and it comes back to life. Sometimes I just have to get up and take the 3 steps to the fireplace and turn on the switch. The thing is 16 years old! I still like the old thing. The fireplace man said "they don't make this model anymore, but the company still makes a great product!". Nice to know.

Meanwhile, I'm still wiggling and jiggling the remote until it totally dies before I'll invest another $4k in a gas fireplace...

BirdieJane

Well here is a link to a replacement. http://www.bestconverter.com/WFCO-8735P-Power-Center-_p_298.html

Estancio

Would add that my converter was replaced, and luckily it was still under factory warranty at the time. They do go bad from time to time. Good luck with yours.

ColoradoJon

After testing with their technical support they determined that the converter has failed.  Luckily there is a two year warranty on the converter.  I'm working through the return/RMA process now.

ColoradoJon

In case any one is interested, WFCO is shipping a new 8735 converter.  I shipped mine back under a warranty claim and it indeed tested bad, so a new one is on the way free of charge.  Hopefully the installation process won't be too bad.  Ripping things out is always easier than putting them back in

My converter was just over a year old so I had to handle the warranty directly through WFCO.  1 year or less needs to be handled through NuCamp, FYI.

ScottG

Good to know, ColoradoJon--thanks for posting a followup.

Please let us know how the reinstall goes, and share any tips or tricks you discover.

Michigan_Mike

Open things up, pull your cell phone out, take some photos for reference and change it out.  Am glad you did get a new converter and hope things work out well for you.  

dsatwork

@ColoradoJon getting his masters of RV repair and the new resident expert for converter issues. We are all watching you very closely. Please post pics of the process. Good luck and Godspeed.

Ratkity

T@B Badge for @ColoradoJon!!!

ColoradoJon

Haha!  Thanks everyone

I did take pictures and careful notes when I removed the converter.  I was in a hurry to get it in a box and shipped back to WFCO so I really didn't do a good job documenting the process, but just enough to figure out which wires go where.  I'm planning the install for this weekend and I will have extra time to hopefully document it.  I'll return with details