Tongue Weight

Ron

With all the discussions about adding stuff to the tongue, batteries ect., has anyone learned what NuCamp's specs are for allowable tongue weights?  Rule of thumb is 10-15% of trailer weight.  
My stock tab with full water tank and empty holding tanks was 175 pounds.  I thought that this was a bit light for 2000 pound trailer.  I have since upgraded to two golf cart batteries and am now at 230 pounds.  That is 8.5% to 11.5%.  Should be more into the "safe" zone.  I am curious as to what the trailer is designed for.  Is it 200 pounds or maybe 300 pounds?

MuttonChops

The "Rule of Thumb" seems to be the standard recommendation for RV trailer tongue weight.  And "the Rule" applies to all trailer loading conditions empty (tare) to maximum GVWR.  So we need to be aware of and monitor how our trailer moveable load impacts tongue weight on our outbound and return trips.

Switching to dual 6V Batteries in the Tub and using a front frame mount spare tire may  (most likely will) require shifting some of the moveable load toward the trailer rear to stay within the recommended tongue weight range.

= = = = = =

nuCamp sales literature [SL] and the DOT Label on the trailer frame indirectly tell us the 'trailer design limits' do follow the above Rule of Thumb.  Following numbers for 320S standard.
. . . . . SL Tongue weight    140 pounds at tare weight
. . . . . SL  GVW at tare     1,788
Therefore (minimum) trailer tongue weight is 7.8% if the trailer is keep level when hitched. But we will never see that light a loading in the real world.

. . . . . SL Tongue weight    200 pounds with Grp-24 Battery and 20# full Propane
. . . . . SL  GVW                1,848 at same  loading
Therefore trailer tongue weight is 10.8% (round to 11%) if the trailer is keep level when hitched.  So as we load the trailer for camping we should place the load so we don't get below 11% . . . . . which is nicely at the low end of the rule of thumb

Since it appears the designers followed "the rule" we can define the maximum safe tongue weight at 15% of DOT GVWR which is 2,800 . . . . . . Tongue maximum weight goes to 420 pounds assuming the trailer itself is fully loaded.  But 420 is only a limit, you don't want that when the trailer is running near tare weight.

So we have a variable tongue weight range 11-15% of a varying loaded trailer weight 1,848 up to 2,800.  This is why all the articles recommend you have your TV and Trailer weight truck scale measured so you know the real trailer GVW for the equipment you carry and your style of camping.  After a few scale station stops you will be confident of your typical Trailer Weight and how you need to adjust the moveable load to achieve an 11-15% tongue weight.

Well that turned out to be a bit lengthy and did not directly answer your question on 'nuCamp design limits' . . . do hope it was still helpful.

ScottG

If you are talking about structural limitations I suspect they are much higher than the operating limitations dictated by the 10-15% rule. The limiting factor on the trailer side would probably be the capacity of the coupler itself, and its attachment points to the trailer frame.

It's a moot point though, as you likely wouldn't want to tow a 2000lb trailer with a 600lb tongue. MuttonChops' assessment seems pretty reasonable for real-world applications.

Tabaz

Just bought this scale on Amazon.  Very well made and seems to be accurate.  Quick and easy to use.  I was a little surprised that my Outback tongue weight was 260 lbs.  (A friend's non-outback 320 was only 180 lbs.  Both of us have two 6V batteries in the propane tub).  I do have a 2000W inverter installed in front of the tub plus a Tupperware Action Packer on the left of the tub.  My two 5 gallon water cans to the right of the tub were empty at the time of weighting.  I'm going to empty the trailer of everything not permanently installed and go to a weigh station for a total trailer weight.  Then I can weight everything before putting it in the trailer.

Luckyj

Yep, and I would check after you place each piece back, see what it does to the tongue weight.

Ron

I have the sherline scale that I use for my 10,000# equipment trailers to get the tongue weight correct.  When I added the outback tub, platform, and went to 2 6 volt batteries I just used a bathroom scale.Weight with tanks empty Is 212#.  If I add Honda generator I go up to 237#.  Stock with plastic tub and group 24 battery I was 160# with tongue jack removed.  This seemed a little to light as I could feel tongue lift up on bumps.

Ron

Tongue has a sticker that says to not exceed 700# tongue weight.  It must be what the company that builds the coupler recommends.  Can't imagine a 700# tongue weight on a 2800# rated trailer.

ericnliz

I stuck my tongue out today.....There's no weight limit sticker.....Now What??

ChanW

Simple @ericnliz. Just keep the load on your tongue at 10%!

Photomom

Wow, that’s expensive for something I’d use once. It would be awesome if one was available at the NuCamp rally for people to use. 

ericnliz

@ChanW......

Luckyj

ericnliz said:

I stuck my tongue out today.....There's no weight limit sticker.....Now What??

Well, I do not know what is your manufac date, but I would ask for the team that was responsable for your design and fab for a spec sheet.  The big building full of bed might also have a file with your vin # and some info.

hope you get that sorted out! 

ericnliz

@Luckyj, Good one!  Think on the safety factor side, I'll just stick to @ChanW's advice though.

ChanW

Good idea @ericnliz. 
I'll send you a sticker for it. 

Dalehelman

Just a plan old bathroom scale will work fine. Checked mine yesterday 287lbs. For the most accurate weight weigh at the ball socket not at the tongue jack. It does make a slight difference.

ScottG

+1 what Dalehelman said. I will add to make sure the trailer is at tow height when you weigh it--either prop the scale up or use a sturdy post of some kind to transfer the weight to the scale (and don't forget to subtract the weight of the post!)

There was a discussion here not too long ago about the effect of having the trailer off-level on tongue weight. Somebody collected actual data and I was surprised what a difference it can make. Presumably this occurs because tilting the trailer one way or the other shifts the center of gravity over the axle and changes the weight distribution on the wheels vs. the tongue.

rkj__

I have not weighed It, but when empty, our T@b CS-S is a little too light in the tongue.  It feels bouncy.  It is much better with a full water tank, and a few heavier items in front of the axle.  

Marceline

rkj__ said:

I have not weighed It, but when empty, our T@b CS-S is a little too light in the tongue.  It feels bouncy.  It is much better with a full water tank, and a few heavier items in front of the axle.  

My CS-S felt a lot better after I moved the spare to the tongue.

rkj__

Marceline said:

rkj__ said:

I have not weighed It, but when empty, our T@b CS-S is a little too light in the tongue.  It feels bouncy.  It is much better with a full water tank, and a few heavier items in front of the axle.  

My CS-S felt a lot better after I moved the spare to the tongue.

Our spare is on the tongue, thankfully.  

dsfdogs

@Dalehelman was the difference of tongue weight between the ball socket and jack post locations minimal, like less than 10 pounds? I learned today that lowering the 2" diameter jack post onto my digital scale does not work-it does not recognize it and I thought it would crack the plastic on the scale. I have a small board that I'm hoping will disperse the weight enough to give me a reading. I even thought of putting the jack post in a shoe on the scale! But I don't have anything that would allow a reading under the ball socket. Thanks.

Haloo

Tabaz said:

Just bought this scale on Amazon.  Very well made and seems to be accurate.  Quick and easy to use.  I was a little surprised that my Outback tongue weight was 260 lbs.  (A friend's non-outback 320 was only 180 lbs.  Both of us have two 6V batteries in the propane tub).  I do have a 2000W inverter installed in front of the tub plus a Tupperware Action Packer on the left of the tub.  My two 5 gallon water cans to the right of the tub were empty at the time of weighting.  I'm going to empty the trailer of everything not permanently installed and go to a weigh station for a total trailer weight.  Then I can weight everything before putting it in the trailer.

Does your wife know you bought this?

Dalehelman

I put a piece of wood on the scale to distribute the weight. IMHO the weight difference between coupler and jack is not enough to worry about.

MuttonChops

dsfdogs said:

What was the difference of tongue weight between the ball socket and jack post locations minimal, like less than 10 pounds?

There is a simple formula to calculate the Tongue Weight at the Ball when weight is measured at the Jack Post/Wheel location.

Ball Location pounds =
Jack Location pounds * ( Distance Jack to Axle / Distance Ball to Axle )

On my 320 S with Outback Front Rack and Outback Spare Tire at Jack Post the typical difference in the weight is Ball about 30 Pounds higher lower than Jack. Jack measured with ball at towing height, bathroom scale (500# rated) with wood pad to distribute wheel weight.

Distances are estimated from drawing, not measured

Photomom

Haloo said:

Tabaz said:

Just bought this scale on Amazon.  Very well made and seems to be accurate.  Quick and easy to use.  I was a little surprised that my Outback tongue weight was 260 lbs.  (A friend's non-outback 320 was only 180 lbs.  Both of us have two 6V batteries in the propane tub).  I do have a 2000W inverter installed in front of the tub plus a Tupperware Action Packer on the left of the tub.  My two 5 gallon water cans to the right of the tub were empty at the time of weighting.  I'm going to empty the trailer of everything not permanently installed and go to a weigh station for a total trailer weight.  Then I can weight everything before putting it in the trailer.

Does your wife know you bought this?

I just got a free bathroom scale from a Facebook “Buy Nothing” group. I have an outback platform, upgraded battery, and have the spare mounted on the jack post. I wanted to check before deciding what to do about a bicycle carrier. My tongue weight is 260 pounds. 

dsfdogs

I ended up using an overturned dog bowl on my scale to disperse the weight! Still, I found I had to punch the button on the scale without any weight on it, then quickly raise the jack tube to 16" to get a weight. I came up with 224#. I have the spare mounted on the front, original battery and full propane. I have a sway bar attached to the trailer, but the end of it is sitting on the ground, so not full weight. All my set up gear is loaded in the trailer with most sitting over the axle. No food or clothing. Fresh tank at 13% (1.5 gallons), water in Alde, some water (from bleach flushing) in gray and black tanks. So once I empty the black/gray for travel, it will be a little lighter. I roughly measured from axle to jack tube (8') and axle to ball (9') and doing the math would put my ball weight at 199#. 

When I bought my trailer, they weighed the tongue (at jack tube) at about 100# (with some fresh water, battery and full LP)! That's not even close to specs. A couple weeks later I had them weigh again and same. So assuming that was correct, then 200# seems about right. I don't know what the trailer weighs though, so don't know if I'm in the 10-15% range. But I am glad I moved that spare.

I think this also shows if I want to get the outback platform, I would be ok on weight? Although, all my heavy gear currently sitting on the axle would then be moved (maybe 40#). My car has 5000# tow capacity and 500# hitch capacity.

Thanks for all your help and certainly let me know if this seems totally out of whack.

jkjenn

When I had my M416 military trailer had to get it weighed to register it in PA.  I took it to a local certified scale, just 15 minutes away and they did not even charge me to have it officially weighed. You could also use truck scales at big truck stops.

rcuomo

I just checked my tongue weight at the ball socket.  288.8# with spare mounted on tongue jack, Stromberg Carlson CC-275 bike rack mount (47#), Allen bike rack (~30#) and two bikes (~45#).  That works out to 15.8% with an estimated 1826# trailer weight.

Sharon_is_SAM

We purchased the Sherline scale and I plan to bring it to UCamp in July.  It will be available to measure your tongue weights.  Now that our Tab has been cleaned of the Utah red dust, I can reload our stuff and get our weight.

Sharon

Verna

Thank you @SAM. Put my name down to “test” your scale  

Tabaz

Took my Sherline scale to a recent rally.  Almost everyone who used it didn't believe the results - "My tongue can't weigh THAT much." was a common refrain.

Photomom

Tabaz said:

Took my Sherline scale to a recent rally.  Almost everyone who used it didn't believe the results - "My tongue can't weigh THAT much." was a common refrain.

Curious, what was the range of weights you were seeing?