soft floor repair/replace

irvingj

As i did my repairs from the underside, I can't help -- hopefully Geo may still be around. Where are you located?

Geo

@brorob,  I am glad to help any way I can.

1)  The 'blank' floor was shipped via motor freight carrier on a large pallet covered/protected with plywood.       My 'blank' floor was the aluminum framing with the 'Azdel' (fiberglass like) material already attached.  I         ordered the 'bottom board' fiberglass cloth separately and used spray adhesive to attach.  The 'Azdel'  was so thin 1/16" I felt I needed to have a layer of 1/4" plywood on top to make the floor feel solid, purchased birch plywood with water resistant glue as my top layer with linoleum floor covering on top. 
 Soooo - the floor is a complete unit, but it needs a top and bottom covering ( if you choose a laminate           type of finished floor you can eliminate the 1/4" plywood).

 2)  The front and rear edges were just screwed on.  used my table saw to cut new ones from pressure               treated wood that had dried (not fresh from lumber yard) and soaked with 'Tompson's' water seal.

3)  Yes, '3M' spray contact cement.

4)  Only the 10 large screws - 5 on each side, did not have a screw vertically at the entrance door.

5)  I do not really remember if I reused the old or bought new screws.  Yes stainless is better - steel and             aluminum do not play well together.

6)  Yes, I chose to replace all the elevator bolts, as the old ones were in bad shape. I did not know that               stainless elevator bolts were a thing at that time ('16). Over my top layer of 1/4" plywood and under the         linoleum.

7)  Purchased a permanently flexible caulk at Camping World, two maybe three tubes - do not recall                   manufacture.

8)  same as 7 

9)  Replaced wheel wells because of newer superior design with a lip around edges to attach to bottom of           floor and side wall. Also when trying to remove old ones - they broke !

10) I emptied the trailer and removed dinette/sofa seat cabinets, refrigerator, AC, etc. - anything with                weight.  The front handles are very solid and held the 'shell' just fine, the rear should do fine (need to            remove taillight housing for clearance). Another T@Bber used a support system through the side                    windows.

Good luck - feel free to ask questions. . .

irvingj

Thanks, Geo! Thinking back, I really should have done the same, replaced the whole floor. Wish I had. It was so nice to be able to tow a very comfortable camper with my VW TDI wagon. (And still get 30+ mpg...)

brorob

@Geo Thank you very much for all of the information!  My floor was delivered today but to my buddy's barn and I won't be able to check it out in person until Saturday.  I'll let you know how it arrived.  Thanks for the tip on the plywood you installed on top, I will consider this as well.  Did you install this flush with the outside floor edges so the walls sat on it and if so did the screws through the walls still go through the aluminum tubing?  I definitely want the new floor to feel firm but my only concern with this is raising the floor too much so those screws don't penetrate the aluminum tubing.  I am probably just going to replace most of the elevator bolts even though they don't seem that bad, a few are rusty on top.  The bolts in back look almost new but I'll examine them closer when I remove them.  I do have most of the interior removed so there will be less weight to support on the handles.  Good to know how the profile boards are connected too.

Somone from nuCamp finally answered most of my questions and he told me to use Geocell MHRV 2300 caulk so I'm going to purchase some of that for caulking everything.  I plan to remove my wheel wells first thing on Saturday too and see if they are reusable.  I didn't realize they changed the design and nuCamp told me it wasn't necessary to replace them if they were in good shape.

I'll let you know how it goes.  Thanks again for your help!

@irvingj Crazy you got that great mileage towing your T@B.

Geo

@brorob,  Yes the 1/4" plywood I installed on top is all the way to the outside edge - used spray contact cement to glue it down. Yes the screws still penetrated the aluminum floor framing, the walls have a shoulder/rabbit cut like offset to sit on the edge of the floor. 
Geocel makes great products (Geo in the name ! ! !) that caulk is perhaps what I used.  Another of their products is Geocel 'ProFlex RV' that is a thick brush able liquid I used to seal the bottom edges of the walls and the edges of the floor.

PS  -  I also added the 1/4" plywood because the shoulder/rabbit cut on the side walls was deeper that the 'blank' floor.  It made the bottom edge of the side walls close to even with the bottom of the floor. 

brorob

I was finally able to inspect the new floor today.  Really happy with the crating and packaging of the floor, not happy that they sent 1 sheet of underbelly material that is too small to cover the floor.  So one more delay with the project.

I was also surprised to see how thin the aluminum tubing is.  Only looks like it's about 3/64", see photo.

Denny16

The strength of this type of floor is the sum of its parts, and not just one component.  The aluminum closed box frame is very strong, and does not rely on thick side wall thickness for its strength, but in its closed box construction.  Add in the foam center, Greencore bottom and Azdel top, and you end up,with a ridged unibody type construction.
cheers

Sharon_is_SAM

@brorob - did you receive the flooring that they are currently installing in the 2022 models?  Transcore something?

Geo

@brorob, @Sharon_is_SAM,  The top and bottom covering on his does look thicker than on my '16 puchased floor (supposedly Azdl). 

brorob

The top and bottom appear to be some type of composite material about 1/8" in thickness, which is black in color. Not sure if this is Greencore, fiberglass, or something else. One of the pieces has quite a bit of pitting in it, see photos.  Not sure if this is the flooring they are putting in the new models, I found a post recently that lists many modifications to the floor construction through the years.

I also received 2 sheets of Azdel material separately, at least they stated it's Azdel.  This material has no rigid property at all, it feels like felt on both sides.  When I asked nuCamp how the Azdel should be applied (before I knew what I was receiving) they stated it's an underlayment but that I also need a vapor barrier, which I'm a little confused about.  What exactly does the Azdel do if it doesn't have any structural advantage? Is it just a soft underlayment to make the floor more comfortable to walk on when vinyl or linoleum is installed?  Or are the top and bottom composite materials Azdel and the sheets they sent me something else?  Is a vapor barrier necessary with this construction?

Also the underbelly material (which they didn't send me enough of) is a thick corrugated plastic material.  Not sure that I like this compared to the thinner plastic material that is on the underbelly of my original floor.

brorob

@Denny16 Thanks for the comments.  I'm sure the thin walled aluminum tubing is still very strong with the bottom and top materials adhered to it and as long as the welds were done right and not insufficient like on the older floors.  I would actually prefer thinner walled aluminum tubes for the weight factor.  I just wanted to share what I received because someone shared a photo of the aluminum tubes on their replacement floor and pointed out it had thicker walls so it looks like the construction has changed again.  This could be due to material shortages.

Denny16

When my floor was repaired, the Lino was pulled up off the original non Azdel underlayment, a vapor barrier was applied (glued down), then the Azdel was glued down and the new Lino applied on top of it.  Azdel by itself is not structural per se, but once bonded to a foam core, which Azdel on both sides, it becomes a structural sandwich, much like a SIP (structural insulated panel) used in house construction to replace stud built walls. 

As for the order of putting this together, you should check with nüCamp Service department.  The 1/8th inch bit, could be Transcore, if it is a ridged composite panel.  The exact order using this would be good to clear up with nüCamp.
cheers

brorob

@Denny16 I plan on calling them about it tomorrow but I've already left messages and sent emails with other questions that haven't been answered.  It would be great if they would either allow customers to work through them or provide resellers with information if they expect us to work through a reseller.  I'm hoping my experience with their customer support is better moving forward but so far not impressed.

@Geo What size boards did you use for the front and rear profile pieces and how long did you let the treated wood sit before sealing it?  I want to purchase that material tomorrow so I can use it soon.  Also did you have to do anything with the wood piece at the bottom of the front curved wall that the profile piece butts up against?  Including an image of it below, the lighter colored wood is at the bottom of the curved panel.  Hoping it doesn't get hung up on this when I lower the floor.  Haven't seen the back piece yet so wondering if that's a similar joint.

Made more progress today.  Removed all trim, propane storage bin, gas lines, & electric.  Hoping to lower the old floor from the shell tomorrow.

Geo

@brorob,  I used 5/4" pressure treated deck boards (actual 1") that were left over from another project and had fully dried out for months. I removed the plastic trim and the 'L' shaped aluminum corner seal up to the handles so the lower front wall came away from the floor.  I did not have any real problem with the front or back getting hung up, just lower and raise the floor slowly. 

brorob

Ok, I'll certainly be taking my time when lowering the old floor. The front area looks like it might be a little tricky because the frame gets in the way from pealing back the outer aluminum shell.

Something I didn't notice before, did you trim your top floor material after securing the new floor to the shell?  I've seen others trim this and the underbelly vapor barrier before. I know you trimmed the underbelly material after but curious about the top material.

Geo

@brorob,  As you begin to lower and separate the shell from the frame the interference of the frame and front edge goes away. Do not force the front wall - it may bend or get a kink in it.
 Trimmed the side edges of the linoleum floor covering to allow for the shoulder/rabbit cut of the walls to sit directly on the plywood.  The 'bottom board' fiberglass cloth was trimmed to the outside edge of the walls after the shell was in place.

brorob

Wanted to send a few updates.  Old floor was removed last week and new floor mounted to the frame today.  It took me a few hours getting the floor positioned in the correct spot on the frame.  All of the elevator bolts went through an aluminum tube or solid wood.  I was disappointed that the aluminum tube that runs from side to side at the front of the wheel wells does not have wood inside it.  This was a weak point on my old floor, now it's the weakest point on my new floor.  The back aluminum tube on the old floor had a wall down the middle too, new floor does not. The floor was quite flexible from front to back when it wasn't attached to the frame, hopefully this won't be noticable when everything is put back together.

I ran into a few unexpected a area with the floor removal.  There were screws driven into the front profile piece from another small profile piece at the bottom of the curved wall that mated with this piece.  Couldn't get to the screw heads so I had to use a grinder to cut them so the floor would lower freely.  Even after the floor was removed I couldn't remove these screws from the smaller profile piece.  Also, I had to use a small vibrating cutter tool to separate the walls from the floor since they were adhered together.  Other than those unexpected challenges, the removal went well.  Made all new profile pieces, including the small piece previously mentioned, and used oil based cover stain primer to seal them.  Put a piece of Tybek between these and the aluminum tubing because aluminum has a negative reaction with main ingredient in the stain.

The piece of the puzzle I'm currently trying to figure out is if the sheets of Azdel are needed with my replacement floor, and if nuCamp charged me extra for it.  I inquired about whether the Azdel was attached to the floor while I was waiting for it, assuming it was still part of the floor construction, but was never given an answer.  Then the floor arrived with two sheets of it unattached.  I'm now wondering if they included the sheets because I inquired about it instead of communicating to me that it isn't used in the floor construction now.  Just one of the communication issues I've had with nuCamp.  Waiting for some information from an engineer at Azdel before I decide whether to use it.

irvingj

Progress!

fstop32

@brorob, this is like an episodic adventure in engineering...you've boldly gone where few men have gone before!  I don't like that you had to go through all this but I find stuff like this fascinating.  I've had to do some deep dives into my T@b and I've yet to come up with the bends    This one interests me because I recently found out the body of my camper was installed 3/4" off center to the driver side.  Should I ever have to repair the floor I intend to follow the route you've blazed to fix it.  Kudos to you and your methodic approach to all of it.  And I feel your pain on the communication headaches, I've certainly encountered those with NuCamp...

brorob

@fstop32 Thanks, I appreciate the Kudos!  I'm glad we decided to take this route but it's definitely been a time sucker.  I know it will be worth it, just bad timing.

I was contacted by an engineer from Azdel after I inquired about how to install the material and he advised against installing it at all.  He was surprised the Azdel sheets were sent to me since my floor already has composite material on top and bottom.  This makes me fairly certain the Azdel was sent to me because I was inquiring if it was installed on the floor blank, thinking it was still being used in the T@B floors.  So instead of nuCamp asking me about it or explaining they don't use it in their floors anymore, they shipped 2 sheets of it to me that aren't needed.

So today I installed the Vinyl flooring over the composite floor blank then raised the floor on the shell and got it screwed together.  I added 3 more screws on each side for more stability.  The floor was a little tricky getting into the correct position and I think the shell is a little out of square because the walls are about 3/8" off from front to back, but everything lined up enough to get a nice seal all the way around.  And the IPA was quite tasty at the end of today's shift!

EricMuench

Contemplating a similar reflooring on my 2013 CSS. Can I ask how much the floor blank cost with shipping? NuCamp said they would do the repair in the neighborhood of $7K.

brorob

@EricMuench My floor was around $900 plus another $300 for shipping to Michigan, which is the next state over from the factory.  I'm not sure if they charged me extra for the 2 sheets of Azdel that they shipped to me though, that weren't even needed.  I'm curious if you inquire how the new floor is constructed if they mention anything about Azdel. I also ended up ordering wheel wells which were around $80 each but I ordered them after the floor so an additional shipping charge for that.

If you have the tools, time, and work space to do this and feel confident with this kind of task then go for it.  My replacement was frustrating because it was so difficult to get any information from nuCamp and since I was on a time constraint.  I worked on it for 3 weeks full time because I took my time and ran into some obstacles, but also had a wall to repair.

On a side note, nuCamp wanted over $400 for new brake pads for the surge brakes, which is completely ridiculous.  I found genuine AL-KO from another supplier and paid just over $100.

fstop32

@brorob, I'm guessing in the disassembly you removed the stabilizer arms and the step assembly from the camper.  I'm curious if you ran into a problem with some of those bolts spinning while you tried to remove the nuts.  I tackled a project of removing and straightening the damaged step assembly (prev owner induced) and quickly found the bolts were not "locked" in place.  I had to drill through the finished floor to give me access to the bolt heads which then revealed those bolts to be carriage bolts.  It was bad enough that the bolts had crushed the aluminum tubing they went through but then to have to drill out the head of the carriage bolt to get them out was especially "disturbing"
So, all that to say did you do anything to lock those bolts in place before reassembly, and if so what did you do?

brorob

@fstop32 Apologies for the late reply.  After my camper repair was done it was full throttle to empty the house ans take care of other things so we could start traveling full time before a snow storm blew in.

I was fortunate with my elevator bolts, none of them spun when I loosened them.  A few spun after they had been loosened a bit so it was fairly easy to pound the head up then hold with channel locks.  It's definitely a pain to deal with if they spin.

When I put the new bolts in the new floor I did pound the heads with the hammer a little to get them started then they tightened fine, although I did tighten them slowly.  I wasn't sure how the composite board would react to pounding them in farther so I just started them.  Since it was new solid material, no problems with the heads turning.