Alde system problem from beginning

MarisaM

Any feedback would be appreciated!  I started by “burning off” strategy for any factory residue in the heating system.  Had the heat up at 80 degrees 2 times for 10-12 hours each.  Since then I have had the heat on quite a bit while temps in the 30s and not sleeping in it.  I noticed that the air in the t@b was caustic and hard to breathe and discovered that this is only when the heat is on.  So, I tested and had the heat on and off.  I found out that once the heat was turned on, I had pain in my lungs and asthma symptoms, right away.  Meaning, several minutes.  Once the heat was off, and aired out for a bit, the trailer is fine and I can spend time and sleep in it.  I would like to be able to use the heat and cannot because there is obviously something wrong here.  Anyone have an experience like this?  To add, the water when its warm or hot, coming from the Alde system boiler, smells terrible like sweet glue.  So, I have not once been able to shower and dread even washing my hands in it.
Anybody have bad experience with the Alde from the start? 

I have turned the heat on and off many times, no improvement. 
The water tank, I have fully drained the boiler, and fresh water tank.  I have also filled 5 times now, and the toxic smell is still there.

pthomas745

If  you bought it new, was your trailer winterized? 

RollingBnB

Are you heating with propane or electric? Water smell from onboard water or hose?

Photomom

It sounds like there is RV antifreeze in your fresh water tank and in the Alde water jacket.

Sharon_is_SAM

That would be my guess, also.  Dealer chose to winterize using antifreeze in Alde water tank.  Did you test the Alde at purchase?

Did you completely flush the plumbing system using a hose and city water connection?

MarisaM

Heating has all been with propane and the water I have filled manually from water jugs into fresh water tank.  I asked the dealer and they said they received the trailer without anti freeze and they did not winterize...

MarisaM

Also, I have filled and emptied (from under the trailer) the fresh water tank and nothing changs

Normfun

I get a warm or hot wood smell on mine. It my be you are sensitive to the glues and finishes that out gas when heated. 

MarisaM

I have not flushed with pressurized city water.  I have considered the residue stuff like glues and asked a technician and he said it should be gone by now since I used the heater a bunch of times.

Sharon_is_SAM

@MarisaM, are you typically very sensitive to off-gassing?  I do not remember a significant time for that odor from heating the Alde to dissipate.  Is the trailer brand new?  

RollingBnB

MarisaM said:

Heating has all been with propane and the water I have filled manually from water jugs into fresh water tank.  I asked the dealer and they said they received the trailer without anti freeze and they did not winterize...

Check the black vent pipe at the side of the Alde to make sure it’s not leaking carbon monoxide into the Tab.

MarisaM

Sharon, your didn’t take long to dissipate? Yes it’s new and a 2019

MarisaM

The large black tube looks ok...

Sharon_is_SAM

No, it did not take too much use of the Alde before the burning odor vanished.

Since the TaB was new, nuCamp ships the TaBs winterized.  They do not put antifreeze in the fresh water tank or in the Alde.  They blow out the lines and put antifreeze in the sink and shower P traps, and the toilets.  

So, if the dealer did not add anything to any tanks, it is odd that even the water smells funky.  

Have you sanitized the plumbing using bleach or any other product?  Did you bypass the Alde?

ChanW

Ours had a chemical smell when new, like the rubber hoses in the heating system were offgassing. It lasted three or six months maybe, gradually diminished.

Opening a window was enough to take care of it.

The antifreeze in the drains and toilet also smells chemical-like. I usually cover the drains to keep the smell down. I lay a small piece of Saran Wrap on top of the toilet antifreeze.

Sharon_is_SAM

Good idea with the saran wrap @ChanW.  When we store for the winter, we seal the top of the commode with saran mostly to prevent evaporation and splash while driving.  I think I will add Saran to cover the shower drain now, too.

ChanW

@Sharon_is_SAM , we keep a 'permanent' cover on the shower drain, using one of those old-fashioned flat rubber kitchen drain stoppers. It's a little more durable than Saran. (We then cover the floor of the shower with a bath mat to protect it from dirty boots)

ScottG

Just a guess, but I wonder if a small glycol leak somewhere could cause this. The leaking glycol could be getting vaporized into the cabin when you run the heat, or possibly into the hot water tank if the leak is internal. However, it does seem unlikely that such a leak would contaminate both the air and the water...

It would be easy enough to check. In addition to looking for glycol or residue where it shouldn't be (around the boiler, hoses, and convectors) check the glycol level in the expansion tank to see if it is going down when you run the system.

MarisaM

That’s what I thought too Scott and was hoping it wasn’t that.  I’m going to take it to a dealer and ge thoroughly checked. Thanks for the help !

Normfun

Is it possible the cap on the Alde expansion tank is loose or off?  

MarisaM

I haven’t check the tank as it appears to be not easily accessible behind some cabinetry.  Since my water system is not working right now, is it ok to use to Alde for heat when the boiler is dry/no water?

Bayliss

Yes, you can use the Alde to heat the inside of the camper even if the boiler/hot water tank is empty.  You should be able to easily access the glycol expansion tank.  I think it is just a couple screws holding the wood panel.

dragonsdofly

@MarisaM, yes. You can use the alde for heat with no water in the tank. It is perfectly safe. It is designed to be used that way. The reservoir is behind the driver's side rear cabinet that is built between the upper and lower cabinets. You only have to remove two screws to access it. Very simple. -Denise

pthomas745

MarisaM, the glycol tank is pictured in this thread. 

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/834/where-is-the-alde-expansion-tank

The little cabinet cover screws are called Robertson-cap square screws.  These take the smaller S1 bit.  These little square screws are all over the place on the trailer, so you will need the S1 and S2 bits in your tool kit.  These screws are about an inch and half long. The board that covers the reservoir just slides out toward the front of the trailer after the screws come out.  (One of the beautiful samples of Tab woodwork.)  Not hard to do, but awkward to get to.  

DougH

@MarisaM ; Our T@B Alde smelled wunnerful when we first got it (warm wood scent).  A year ago I checked the Alde reservoir and it was above the MAX line, as filled by the factory or dealer...  and after refractometer testing, I guessed that maybe that was okay to be so full... it must not expand much.  Besides we didn't do any freezing cold weather camping. 

Ooops.  More recently we've been running it much longer and there's been a skunky / acrid smell, especially when running on propane.  Yuck.  Have to have a window open to tolerate the stink.

Sure enough, when the Alde runs a while or if you go to a higher altitude, that resevoir level can rise and overflow.  And when our coolant is very hot it stinks of skunk and something that catches you at the back of the throat.  If you pick up a $20 UV light you can check the tank level faster when cold or when it's been running for a while.

Full Tank in White Light:


Overflow Mess in UV Light:


The dried coolant cleaned up easily, and I siphoned out a couple inches of coolant.  So far, so good on the stench.  I checked all the other connections and didn't see any other residue anywhere.

That doesn't help with your water smell...  it does sound like someone sanitized wrong or put antifreeze where it didn't belong as folks have suggested.  You've drained and refilled the fresh water tank already.  Have you flushed out the Alde tank by either running out a couple dozen gallons of hot water from the sink or external shower, or by draining and filling the Alde tank a few times yet?  That might be enough to take care of the hot water stink. We never drink water from an RV, but do expect the hot water to be clean enough for doing dishes or showering.

On all the RV forums that use Alde systems, I've never read of anyone getting a primary / secondary boundary internal leak where the glycol leaks into the hot water.  Not impossible though, and that would be a more serious Alde service center issue.

DougH

@MarisaM ;  Any updates on your Alde / hot water smell  situation?  Did the dealer find a way to resolve it?