Jacking points on Tab 320 And 400

melpeter

i searched the forum but found no definitive answer to where to place a jack to fix a flat tire. I saw the recommendation about stabilizers + tongue jack. Ok. But I want to know where to safely place a jack. 

dsfdogs

Here is the picture I received from Creed at NuCamp when I asked the exact same question. He circled the spot in red. This is on a 2018 T@B 320.

dragonsdofly

@melpeter, that is the spot if using a jack. Never, ever use the axle as a jack point. Damage to or destruction of the axle results. We use the rear stabilizers and tongue method. Works great and gives the security of a three point lift. To DH and myself, much safer and no possibility of the trailer slipping off the jack.

melpeter

That’s great. Creed is a helpful guy. I’ll crawl under and see if I can identify that spot on my trailer. Thanks! I will do the three point lift but I want to know the jacking point just in case. 

ScottG

Somewhere in all my T@B-related literature I saw instructions to jack on the frame ~20" behind the wheel. I tried this once, but it's a little dicey as the frame is sloped at that point so there's increased risk of the jack losing loosing purchase. To my not-completely-uneducated eye, the jack point shown in the photo is a much better choice and puts no pressure on the axle itself.

That said, it's a moot point on the 320. I agree with dragonsdofly's comment above. The rear stabilizer and tongue jack method works great and eliminated any need for a separate jack. (Though I still recommend using jack stand as well if you are going to be working under the trailer.)

N7SHG_Ham

FYI, that same location is the jack point on the 400's per recent posts in the forum.

targ

I got that same picture too when I asked NuCamp tech support. In my email, I asked specifically about doing the 3 point lift thing instead of using a jack. I was told it is not recommended. 

As a side note, even if they hadn’t told me not to do the 3 point lift, I’m not sure it even would work on the Boondock midels because the aft stabilizers barely make it to the ground as it is. Can anyone with a BD mode confirm the 3 point lift works?

dragonsdofly

@targ, most boondock owners use leveling blocks or blocks of wood under the stabilizers to make up for the higher clearance on those models, so I can understand the recommendation not to do it for jacking. Our backyard, where the t@b lives when not travelling has a slight grade side to side. DH tried to jack and it did slide off. We found the instructions regarding the then recommended rear stabilizers & tongue lift and have been good to go since.

ScottG

I'm curious to hear the rationale for nuCamp's change of heart, as the three-point method was specifically prescribed in the pre-2017 owner's manual. I do notice the method has been dropped from more recent versions.

IIRC, Outback/Boondock owners may have had to place a bit of blocking under the stabilizers in order to use this approach.

targ

I seem to recall reading somewhere, maybe on this foum, that some people had ruined the stabilizers by doing the 3 point method, but without having them *fully* extended. 

Also, it may be that the thread pitch on the stabilizers is coarse enough that the stabilizers could theoretically back drive leading NuCamp to no longer recommend it for liability/safety reasons. 

Bayliss

@targ , I own a 2019 320S Boondock Lite.  Last week, while camping, I tested jacking up the camper with the rear BAL stabilizer and front jack (crank).  As indicated above, the clearance was too high for the rear stabilizer to reach the ground.  I carry a couple thick blocks of wood for use with my 4x4 Toyota Tundra (my tow vehicle), because it also has too high of a clearance for the standard jack that came with the truck.  With one of the wood blocks below the rear stabilizer, the three-point system worked well.  It lifted the camper wheel off the ground and would easily allow me to remove the tire.  I also carry stackable leveling blocks, which would have accomplished the same thing as the block of wood.  (Greg)

ScottG

The stabilizers themselves are rated at 1000lbs each--more than enough to support their share of a T@B 320 (though perhaps not a 400). While they should not be used as jacks per se, they should be robust enough to handle this application.

That said, a support is only as strong as its attachment point, and I have always been a little skeptical of the fact that the stabilizers are not attached to the main frame (as indicated in the installation instructions) but rather to smaller extensions projecting out from the main frame.

Regardless, while I'm not sure I recommend jumping around inside the trailer while it's up on the stabilizers, even the little frame extensions seem more than up to the task. I'm gonna' stick with the three-point method (mostly 'cause I'm lazy...) and you all can say "I told you so" If I break something.  :-)

CanyonTravelers

We spent this past weekend at T@BAZONA 2019 in Mesa Arizona.  There was a Rep. from nuCamp there and the question about jacking for a flat tire came up.  They recommend the same jacking location that is shown on the picture that “dsfdogs” posted.  They don’t recommend using the front and back stabilizing jack idea as it puts a lot of stress on the frame. Just thought I would pass this on….

targ

@ScottG, I agree with you.
The only thing I would add is that if doing the 3 point lift, be sure the rear stabs are fully extended before jacking up the tongue. I don’t think that is specifically mentioned in any procedure I’ve read. 

FWIW, mine is not like the picture above. On mine, the bellypan is on the very bottom frame cap so everything is covered and nothing is visible. So I suggested to the tech rep that NuCamp put cutouts in the corrugated bellypan to clearly indicate the proper jacking points.  

Sharon_is_SAM

So they have changed the accepted standard for jacking on the 320.  Sure would be nice to see an official announcement.  I will ask nuCamp.

jkjenn

Video from nüCamp is 6 months old:

https://youtu.be/bL6fmJ46E4w

pthomas745

I think they will dance and dance and dance around this issue forever. 

The tongue/stabilizer method works on my Outback just fine, no blocks needed.  It is nice to know there is a spot under the trailer for a jack point should I need it.

Why does there have to be a "recommended" method? 

targ

@jkjenn, that video only confounded me more since he didn’t show the actual procedure. The stuff I’ve read said lower the tongue, drop rear stabs, then lift the tongue. But in that video, it was sitting on the front stabs and the rear ones were hidden. How did he actually get it there?
Can someone who has a copy of the actual old NuCamp instructions please post them?

Verna

I have now heard Marvin say two times in the past 6 months that the nüCamp preferred method of jacking the T@B 320 and the 400 is NOT with the stabilizers, but with a separate jack. This is now their preferred method. 

You are are entitled to your own opinion and preferred method, and nüCamp has their preferred method, 

pthomas745

There have been numerous threads on this.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=YxpRXOq0G6HB0PEPgoywqAQ&q=tire+changing+site:tab-rv.vanillaforums.com&oq=tire+changing+site:tab-rv.vanillaforums.com&gs_l=psy-ab.3...2361.6303..7508...0.0..0.97.1754.27......0....1..gws-wiz.layOBKh5e5M

This thread has details on page 2

https://tab-rv.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/1799/can-the-stabilizers-safely-support-the-weight-of-the-t-b-for-a-short-time/p1

BrianZ

It's hard to believe that a topic so basic & essential as how to change a tire, and that is questioned so much by T@B owners, is not even mentioned in the owner's manual.  Every car owner's manual covers this, so why not for an RV?  🙄

ScottG

I certainly have no argument with nuCamp's current recommendation. In fact, it validates what I have said from the start: excess force on the stabilizers may damage the trailer frame, AND the most suitable jacking point is on the flat plate that forms a portion of the axle mount directly behind the wheel. However, none of the printed literature to date makes these points explicitly (see below).

Based on real-world application, I still think the three-point method works just fine. However, I can see why the company would discontinue recommending this approach in light of the way the stabilizers are mounted. It doesn't mean you'll break your trailer if you try it, but nuCamp as a company does have a responsibility to limit risk to a greater degree than an individual owner might have.

From pg 4 of the 2012-2016 T@B owner's manual, available here:

How to Change a Flat
First, get your trailer into a safe area where you have the space to work on it freely. Now, you are ready to begin:
• Loosen the lugs
• Drop the Nose of the trailer by cranking the wheel jack all the way DOWN
• Flip out and Extend the Jacks as long as they can go
• Crank the wheel jack all of the way UP
• Remove the Lugs and the Tires – Replace with the spare
• Repeat the above steps in reverse
• Torque the lugs – YOU ARE READY TO GO!

Of course, on the next page of the same manual you see this. Note the indication of where to place the jack:

Brake Adjustment (SEEK PROFESSIONAL ASSISTANCE):• Elevate the camper by positioning jacks under the frame 12” to 20” behind the axle. Use the jack stands under the frame to support the camper any time it is elevated. • NEVER PLACE THE JACKS UNDER THE FLOOR OR USE THE STABILIZERS TO ELEVATE THE CAMPER.

Newer versions (2017+) of the manual avoid any instructions with regard to changing tires save for a mention of how to tighten the lug nuts. However, the following ambiguous warnings regarding use of the stabilizers are included:

WARNING
Stabilizing jacks are designed to stabilize the trailer only. Misuse of the stabilizer jacks to level or lift the trailer may result in damage to the jacks and potentially the trailer.
WARNING
Whenever the trailer must be lifted with a jack, as when changing a tire or leveling on very rough terrain, always place the lifting jack under the main frame rail. Never use stabilizing jacks to lift the trailer.

rcuomo

I carry a small bottle jack and use the frame jack point whenever possible. I believe the NuCamp guidance using the stabilizers to jack up the trailer was changed because BAL the stabilizer manufacturer issued guidance not to use the stabilizers. There might have been concern due to the extra weight of the 400.  As previously mentioned, the stabilizers are rated for 1000# maximum. For the 320 they should be more than sufficient IMO. 

rcuomo

BogieMeister

If I were to hazard a guess, I would say they probably changed their policy when they came out with the heavier 400.  To avoid any confusion they now say to use a jack to raise your tab.

ScottG

rcuomo said:

...

I believe the NuCamp guidance using the stabilizers to jack up the trailer was changed because BAL the stabilizer manufacturer issued guidance not to use the stabilizers.

...

This may indeed be a factor as well, but according to CanyonTravelers' post above, nuCamp's specific concern was with the trailer frame.

That doesn't mean company reps are not going to say something different another time. Personally, I admire their patience with understandably concerned owners who want complex answers to simple questions.  ;-)

grubbster

Seems to me a good solution is a compromise in the techniques.  Perhaps use a jack to lift the unit and then use the stabilizers to help stabilize the camper and keep it from slipping off the jack. 

TerryV6

dragonsdofly said:

@melpeter, that is the spot if using a jack. Never, ever use the axle as a jack point. Damage to or destruction of the axle results. We use the rear stabilizers and tongue method. Works great and gives the security of a three point lift. To DH and myself, much safer and no possibility of the trailer slipping off the jack.

I’m sitting in the house, temp is -25 outside.  My trailer is in storage.  Mulling over these points with no actual physical reference.
  I’m wondering about the slipping jack.  We bought a bottle jack to use besides the 3 point method.  Maybe some kind of jig you could add to keep the jack on that frame spot.....

Luckyj

Couple of things here to support nucamp decision.

As stated by the stabilizer company in one of the many owners manual inclued by nucamp, the stabiliser should not be used to support the entire weight of the trailer.  And if you have ever notice, they have the highest capacity when fully extended.  But in that position, they are very vulnerable to lateral force.  (Front to back)

also, when using the 3 point methode, 2 of them have wheels, other side wheel can roll, and front jack is also wheel mounted.  So both these wheels should be chucked. 

When changing a wheel, the best ancor is the towing vehicule, that give the strongest ancore point, front to rear and sideways.  so using a jack under the axle plate will only slightly transfert the center of gravity toward the side where the wheel is not changed.  This become the most stable lifting method. If you chuck tye wheel on the ground, that make it even more stable.

ScottG

Luckyj said:

...
When changing a wheel, the best ancor is the towing vehicule, that give the strongest ancore point, front to rear and sideways.

...

Arguments about the strength of the 320 frame and stabilizers aside, I do agree with this point. It seems to me unhooking the trailer is the single biggest risk (not to mention hassle) of using the 3-point method to change a tire on the side of the road.  In fact, newer versions of the nuCamp manual specifically recommend keeping the trailer hooked to the T/V in such circumstances.

However, for doing routine wheel maintenance in my yard when not hooked to a T/V, I have no qualms about using the 3-point method. YMMV.

Awca12a

I ran into this problem when going through the 2017 manual that came with my 2019 T@B400 Boondock Lite and tried to practice changing the tire before actually needing to off-road.  That lead to a whole series of writing to fill the documentation/knowledge gaps.  If the current official stance is the 320 should be jacked like the 400, perhaps this PDF will be of help to 320 owners.