What is Gross Trailer Weight and Dry Tongue Weight of 2019 [email protected] 400 with Fridge and Microwave?

robyn769robyn769 Member Posts: 227
Hi, I'm still considering buying a 2019 [email protected] 400, but I'm really getting conflicting information on the overall Gross Trailer Weight, Dry Weight, Dry tongue weight of the 2019 model.  My dealer is guessing and that isn't good enough and NuCamp gave me a crazy high number!....475.  This can't be right!!!!  That would mean the dry weight would have to be AT LEAST 4750 pounds for it to tow safely! 

Can someone take a pic or type in what the trailer sticker says on a 2019 model preferably with the larger fridge and microwave, but ok if it doesn't have those options since the trailer frame itself should still show the max gross weight regardless of options.

So the 2018 flyer says 390 dry weight and 460 wet for tongue weight, and 2690 dry and 3500 for min/max overall weight.  I can't find anything on the 2019 model. 

Thanks!


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Comments

  • treefrogtreefrog Member Posts: 98
    10-15% is recommended for tongue weight.

    2021 400 with 2018 4Runner  Portland OR.
  • robyn769robyn769 Member Posts: 227
    Yes. That I know.  It just seems the tongue weight Nucamp gave me today is not right.  I had heard 370 to 390 even on the 2019 and Nucamp tells me today 475 DRY! 
  • N7SHG_HamN7SHG_Ham Member Posts: 823
    edited February 2019
    The further back the trailer axle, the higher the tongue weight. Proportionally the 400 axle is further back than the 320,s. Just because the weight is 475, doesn't mean the trailer is 10x that. I don't have mine yet, so can't weigh it yet, but the 475 seems legit, pretty sure it is over 400. Let me look at some literature I have and if I find different I will update. Brochure for 2019 lists 405 with propane and battery, I am assuming this is with dry tanks. MW would maybe add a small amount? Bigger fridge probably very little as it is over or behind axle. Boondock might add a little as I suspect the aluminum tub might be slightly heavier than plastic? All in I just don't see it being less than 400 pounds on the hitch and the 475 is at least plausible. I have thought for quite sometime a loaded 400 is going to be knocking on 500 pounds. Only real way to know is weigh the hitch weight with trailer loaded as you plan to travel.
    2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite
  • DougHDougH Member Posts: 606
    edited February 2019
    I thought the two batteries are in the back of the 400.  If you grow that battery bank with another 4-6 70lb AGMs that should lighten your tongue weight (if the tow vehicle you're thinking of doesn't like 450-500lb tongue weight).  Just don't drop below 10% tow weight without supplemental anti-sway measures. 
    2014 328d diesel wagon, 2016 [email protected] S Max, D/FW Texas

  • robyn769robyn769 Member Posts: 227
    edited February 2019
    Excellent input guys! Thanks a bunch.  I'm on my phone right now and hard to type...so I will respond better tomorrow.  I also definitely going to use a weight distribution hitch....still have to figure out which one though.
  • N7SHG_HamN7SHG_Ham Member Posts: 823
    @DougH the 400 battery is in the back under the bed, but that weight and wording is straight off the brochure. Apparently without battery and propane you only drop to 390 also per the brochure. So only showing 15 pound difference on the hitch weight, obviously even the propane weighs more than that. Not every pound forward or rearward of the axle adds or subtracts 1 for 1 on the hitch weight.
    2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite
  • robyn769robyn769 Member Posts: 227
    Thanks N7SHG_Ham, 405 sounds more realistic to me.  I thought perhaps NuCamp was weighing the tongue without the two batteries under the bed since they are always installed by the dealership.  I'm awaiting a call from my dealer. They just got a 400 in this week that they were still "unpacking" and they assured me they would get me a tongue weight on it asap.  
  • Awca12aAwca12a Member Posts: 272
    After taking the picture I compared it to the literature I had been using and found I needed to up both the GVWR and GAWR.  The attached 400 specs are correct for a 2019 [email protected] Boondock.

     


    F150 Pulling 2019 [email protected] BDL
  • Awca12aAwca12a Member Posts: 272
    The attached spec sheet with this information might be helpful as well.
    F150 Pulling 2019 [email protected] BDL
  • robyn769robyn769 Member Posts: 227
    excellent info! Thanks for sending the pics too!  This is very helpful.  I appreciate it.  Also, I just called my dealer back and he said his NuCamp rep said this (after I asked him to press to make sure 475 is right) "I know the tongue weight is 475 because we just weighed them and we are concerned and we are trying to figure out what to do." This is both alarming and good news. At least they think it's high too! A dry weight that high is going to cost them alot of sales since they promote their trailers as so "tow-able."  My guess is they may move the spare tire mount back to the rear end of the [email protected] like it was on my 320.  That should shave about 30 pounds off the tongue I would think. 
  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Moderator Posts: 5,196
    I know the dealers install the batteries on the 320s, but is that true for the 400s?  
    Sharon / 2017 [email protected] CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
  • robyn769robyn769 Member Posts: 227
    Yes. All batteries are put in by the dealers. Otherwise they would have a bunch of dead and damaged batteries in the new campers they are selling.  My dealer said they only install batteries on all of their campers during the post sale prep process. 
  • JEBJEB Member Posts: 265
    edited February 2019
    robyn769 said:
    Yes. All batteries are put in by the dealers. Otherwise they would have a bunch of dead and damaged batteries in the new campers they are selling.  My dealer said they only install batteries on all of their campers during the post sale prep process. 
    Sorry for barging in.  This is my first post.  Your statement about all batteries being dealer installed is unfortunately incorrect.  I bought a 400 one week ago and my batteries were installed at the factory.  I have solar, so dead batteries probably weren't a concern.  But I suspect that most if not all 400s are coming with the batteries pre-installed.  Nucamp specifies AGM batteries for the 400, which are maintenance-free.  So depletion during transit is limited.  And the specs call for 2 X 224Ah 6v batteries.  It's a pretty specific designation.  I doubt many dealers stock this type of battery as a matter of course.  

    Nucamp is making a push to expand its dealer network.  Many dealers are woefully undereducated about [email protected]  I'd take what they tell you with a grain--or block--of salt.  I told my dealer more about the [email protected] than it told me.
    2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite
    2019 Chevy Colorado ZR1 Duramax
  • falcon1970falcon1970 Member Posts: 508
    @robyn769
    The dealers acquire and install the batteries in the TAB 320s.  That is why there are so many different types of batteries in those models.
    The TAB400s arrive at the dealer with the fully charged AGM batteries already installed under the bed.  As long as the battery switch is left in the off position, the AGM batteries will hold a charge for quite awhile.  The dealers (at least the good ones) will keep the battery charged and top it off before delivery.
  • robyn769robyn769 Member Posts: 227
    Ok. My dealer told me different but he could definitely be wrong.  He is just the sales guy so maybe he just assumed they were still putting in the batteries since he probably wouldnt pay alot if attention to that aspect. 
  • falcon1970falcon1970 Member Posts: 508
    @robyn769
    Well, maybe I should qualify my above comment.  MY dealer (who is the owner and only sales rep) told me that the 400s arrive with the batteries installed.  I wanted to be on hand when my TAB400 arrived at the dealer, but it actually showed up a day early!  So I don't really know from personal observation.  Like so many other things about the TABs, all we have is anecdotal evidence.
  • robyn769robyn769 Member Posts: 227
    Very true! It's a wonderful product and great company but we struggle a bit with details such as this to include updated users manuals, etc.
  • Awca12aAwca12a Member Posts: 272
    Having tried to access the battery compartment in a new [email protected], I can tell you that it would take an hour or more of disassembling the under bed compartment to remove the battery compartment & its ventilation system to access it.  Tried to connect a battery temperature sensor to the negative terminal when installing the BMV-712 so I'd say without going too far out on a limb that the Harris batteries are installed first and then the battery containment system is screwed down.
    F150 Pulling 2019 [email protected] BDL
  • falcon1970falcon1970 Member Posts: 508
    @Awca12a
    It is somewhat like a Chinese puzzle box--move this piece a quarter of an inch, move that piece to the left, slide that other piece out, etc.
    The batteries sit under the bed on the passenger side, totally enclosed in a two piece rubber box partially buried into the floor of the cargo hatch.  Uncovering the batteries entails removing about eight wood screws of varying lengths, undoing a hose clamp for the upper ventilation air exhaust, and disconnecting the positive and negative power cables.  After releasing the quick-clips on the hold-down straps, the batteries can be lifted out.  Not lifted out easily mind you.  While lighter than lead-acid batteries, they are still heavy and there is no graceful way to pick them up out of the tray.  Fortunately, with care and a little luck, battery replacement is probably several years down the road.
    And I agree that the trailer is probably built around the batteries.
  • robyn769robyn769 Member Posts: 227
    WOW!!!!!!!!!! How in the world do you hook up a trickle charger to them then? I always keep my batteries on a trickle charger. 
  • falcon1970falcon1970 Member Posts: 508
    @robyn769
    I'm not sure that the AGM batteries would require a trickle charger.  With the battery disconnect switch in the off position--unless you have added something connected directly to the battery--the batteries will last a long time with very minimal self discharge.  Connecting the trailer to a generator (or the house) for an hour or so every 4-6 weeks should keep it well charged.  Of course, everyone's trailer is probably different so YMMV.
    You might also consider adding insulated connectors to the exterior of the battery box wired to the positive and negative terminals of the batteries.  Just make sure you aren't leaving any "hot" connections in case something slides around and shorts them out!  Batteries, like mules, will bite you when you aren't looking.
  • robyn769robyn769 Member Posts: 227
    Good info.  I have a slight obsession with batteries and always maintaining them in as perfect working condition as possible.  It would be nice to not have to obsess as much over batteries in my next camper!
  • N7SHG_HamN7SHG_Ham Member Posts: 823
    @robyn769 you could swap in some Lifepo4 batteries for around $2k and probably never have to see them again, at least for 10+ years :)
    2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite
  • Awca12aAwca12a Member Posts: 272
    @robyn769. If you have a power source to trickle charge, why not just leave the trailer plugged in with a 30 to 20 dogbone and let the converter do the float phase for you.   If you choose to add a battery monitor at some point, the alarms on the BMV712 will largely prevent you from letting them get so low they get damaged.   Lastly, if you prefer to use a trickle charger of your own instead, it is easy to tap into the power block and neutral bar mounted in the storage area next to the battery.  Unlike a typical battery switch, this one doesn’t bypass everything so a positive terminal power block was mounted outside the battery compartment to which you can attach the ring terminals of your float charger.  This is how I keep old cars maintained without having to connect directly to the battery each time.  Plenty of ways to go on this for you to choose from. 


    F150 Pulling 2019 [email protected] BDL
  • Sharon_is_SAMSharon_is_SAM Moderator Posts: 5,196
    edited March 2019
    @robyn769, if you have never had the pleasure of an AGM battery, you are in for a treat.  Regarding your battery maintenance while in storage, all you need to do is charge it fully using an AGM specific setting on a battery charger (TaB converter may not charge it to max full), turn your battery switch off and then check on it every couple months for your own piece of mind.  They have very low discharge rates.  No need to trickle charge.  Here is one of many info sources on AGMs.

    http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/absorbent_glass_mat_agm
    Sharon / 2017 [email protected] CSS / 2015 Toyota Sienna Minivan / Westlake, Ohio
  • JEBJEB Member Posts: 265
    Awca12a said:
    Having tried to access the battery compartment in a new [email protected], I can tell you that it would take an hour or more of disassembling the under bed compartment to remove the battery compartment & its ventilation system to access it.  Tried to connect a battery temperature sensor to the negative terminal when installing the BMV-712 so I'd say without going too far out on a limb that the Harris batteries are installed first and then the battery containment system is screwed down.
    Are all the 400s equipped with Harris batteries?  I couldn't find a Harris product spec'd to 224 Ah and I read somewhere that nuCamp started using US Battery AGMs sometime mid-last year.  Is that rumor?
    2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite
    2019 Chevy Colorado ZR1 Duramax
  • falcon1970falcon1970 Member Posts: 508
    @JEB
    My mid-Dec 2018 build came with Harris labelled batteries.  However, the Harris Battery website also shows US Battery as one of their products.  Their website does NOT show a battery labelled like mine (HBDAGMGC6-A).  It has no other info pasted on it.
  • JEBJEB Member Posts: 265
    @JEB
    My mid-Dec 2018 build came with Harris labelled batteries.  However, the Harris Battery website also shows US Battery as one of their products.  Their website does NOT show a battery labelled like mine (HBDAGMGC6-A).  It has no other info pasted on it.
    @falcon1970
    Thanks for the info.  I tried searching for that model number as well and couldn’t find it.  Makes it hard to configure the solar controller.  I might send an inquiry to Harris to see if they can identify it and send some specifications.
    2019 [email protected] 400 Boondock Lite
    2019 Chevy Colorado ZR1 Duramax
  • Awca12aAwca12a Member Posts: 272
    @JEB @falcon1970
    Tech Support at nuCAMP assured me that the Harris batteries were installed in the trailers at least starting in November and I confirmed with Harris directly that they were supplying them.   The attached spec sheet I was e-mailed is what I used when writing up the equipment & boondocking data sheets in the resource guide.  Can't comment about anything else regarding what nuCAMP may have used before or after my install.

    F150 Pulling 2019 [email protected] BDL
  • Awca12aAwca12a Member Posts: 272
    edited February 2019
    @robyn769
    The AGM batteries are really a great tool and you've raised some questions about charging them and so forth.  If it's of any help, I included the ELECTRICAL excerpt in the Users Manual post as this is where I talk about the 3 stages of charging and how the converter handles it.  From what I see, the specs for the converter indicate they reach a sufficiently high voltage to both charge and float these batteries.  Where the system can get confused is with the solar power tail settings in the Victron but that's another issue entirely.

    One thing to note is that these AGM batteries reach 50% discharge at 12.2 volts.  If you are only using the KIB monitor the trailer came with, you should know that when the light hits FAIR (11.7 to 11.2 volts), it is already way too low and you are damaging those batteries.   This is covered in the INTRO excerpt.
    F150 Pulling 2019 [email protected] BDL
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