What is Gross Trailer Weight and Dry Tongue Weight of 2019 T@B 400 with Fridge and Microwave?

jenniferlzr

@ADRawli do you have the 3.6L Trailhawk or the 5.7L?

ADRawli

@jenniferlzr We have the 3.6L.   We had the 5.7 Hemi in a Dodge Durango and couldn’t live with 11mph at all times, regardless of pulling or not.  Newer 5.7s might do a bit better, but when not pulling our T@B (about 95% of the miles), we’re glad for the smaller engine and better mileage now. 

N7SHG_Ham

@ADRawli that is interesting, I have a friend with a Ram with the hemi that gets 20+ MPG solo. I think it has an 8 speed and maybe the Multi Displacement System.

ADRawli

@N7SHG_Ham  yeah, ours was I think 2005  (?), I can’t recall.   I might have been a bit harsh, as it probably was closer to 12-13 mpg, but it was very thirsty.   It was very comfortable and a nice, smooth, solid riding vehicle, but the mileage was not so great.  Newer engines I am sure have improved on that. 

Denny16

Yes my Dakota even with the V6 was poor on mpg, getting about the same 12-14mpg, due to the lower gear rear end which comes with the tow package, and its older tech 4-speed transmission.  My 

jenniferlzr

ADRawli I'm thinking of keeping my car and buying a cheap truck or GC for towing. I've found a GC Overland with the 5.7 8cyl for under 10,000. It's a 2007 with 111,000 miles on it. Towing capacity is 5,000lbs and max tongue weight is 500. Thoughts?

Cbusguy

@jenniferlzr Iwill answer your question with a question

How much are you willing to trust an unknown vehicle that is 13 years old?

Let me frame my response, stuff happens, my truck has 150k on it and is similar in age.   Except I have owned it since new, I know it's short comings and know what has been maintained.   I have replaced all the belts hoses, ujoints, bearings and brakes.   Replaced a broken spring, and about to replaced the fuel  pump because it is a Chevy.  It is 11 years old it is in better shape than many 3 year old vehicles with 50k miles.


If you choice to buy it,. The simple thing is to plan a couple of extra days on the end of the trip just in case you break down and need to wait on a mechanic

falcon1970

I agree with @Cbusguy.  Used vehicles are used vehicles for a reason.

Denny16

I would have a mechanic check it out first, kind of high mileage.  Look for a used TV with 50,000 or less miles on it.  My 2002 Dakota at 95,000 miles on it started having issues when I traded it in.
cheers

ADRawli

jenniferlzr said:

ADRawli I'm thinking of keeping my car and buying a cheap truck or GC for towing. I've found a GC Overland with the 5.7 8cyl for under 10,000. It's a 2007 with 111,000 miles on it. Towing capacity is 5,000lbs and max tongue weight is 500. Thoughts?

I think I’m in the camp with the others who responded.  If the 100k were your miles, vs the guys/gals who had the vehicle before you, then maybe you could feel comfortable knowing and trusting it’s value as a TV.   But a used vehicle with that many miles would make me nervous even if I knew every one of those miles and the maintenance history by heart.   A TV should be extra trustworthy as even more is at stake while towing.   Jeep reliability has surely improved since the turn of the century, but I am not sure how much a 2007 13 or 14 years down the road might be.  Again, lots of variables to consider. If towing plans mean lots of miles far from home base, the need to trust your TV is even more paramount vs shorter trips within a smaller circle of home. So, ultimately you have to decide, but you will also be the one to live with the consequences for trying to cut corners.  Nothing will ruin the joy of a new trailer excursion quicker than an old TV breakdown far from home/help.  My two cents worth.

N7SHG_Ham

Used is probably taking a chance if it isn't YOUR used vehicle.

I have a 2001 Dodge Ram, I bought new in fall of 2000, so right now just a few months short of 20 years in my ownership. Just short of 310k miles. I know everything that has been fixed or needs fixed (very little) and I tow a Tab 400 with this truck. I drove to Indiana from Oregon about a year ago no worries no problem until the radiator sprung a leak one day from getting home. That sidelined me for a few days, but once I got the parts, hand tools and a couple hours and I was rolling.

I wouldn't be afraid of a 100k miles if you know the history, especially if you created the history. Folks tend to get new vehicles way too often in most cases and that costs you a lot of money. You pay the bank or the shop and sometimes both, no free rides, but buying new vehicles often and taking the deprecation hit is expensive.

If this old Dodge is ever more expensive to fix than replace, I will replace, but not looking forward to that day as new trucks like I have are going to be $60k+ and that is a big payment. Since I live where rust isn't typically an issue, I am guessing the repairs will always be less than a new vehicle since the price has at least doubled in last 20 years.

jenniferlzr

Thanks y'all for all the feedback. Just as I was going to bed, after hours of searching, I was getting more and more deflated about the "getting an old TV" idea. Safety components are not there for sure.
My problem is finding something that I'll like while NOT going on camping trips. I'm going to have to forget the idea of decent gas mileage of a TV, and realize it will not be the same as my current Volvo XC60. 

Cbusguy

Decent gas mileage and towing don't generally go together.

My advise is to not look at or worry about mileage and fill it at 1/2 tank especially in the plains and west.

AirBoss

I was in the same boat. Bought a 2019 Volvo XC60 T6 in Sept 2019, then decided to purchase the 400 in Dec. Yeah...cart vs. horse. Not compatible so that forced my hand. Woulda, coulda, shoulda aside (had thought of the 320 CS at first but deal on 400 and circumstances changed my mind for me!), fact remains a different TV was in order. Wasn't about to spend another $40K on a new TV so did my homework a bit on a used one. We all understand the new vs. used scenario, whether or not you're towing a trailer. But not everyone can go out and drop $40K on a vehicle. 

These are complex mechanical devices operated under stress, even more so if you're towing a rig. The inevitable fact is regardless of whether it's a new vehicle, or a used vehicle whose history (i) is your history or (ii) can be determined to some reliable degree by vehicle history reports and a proper inspection from a reputable mechanic, stuff happens. Just because it's new does not mean it will be trouble free. Warranty, yes, that certain is a factor. But there are options for used as well, depending on year, make, model, mileage, etc. May be worth a look.

If your budget and wallet permit, new is the way to go without much doubt. If not, do your homework, shop around, be patient. And if you go used, do your best to reserve some funds to cover the cost of repairs. Frankly, in this day and age, 150K on a 13-15 year old vehicle that has been well-maintained, accident free, and has history of being reliable (there's a plethora of websites out there to review make/models), is not a death sentence by any stretch. 

Is my '04 Tahoe Z71 thirsty? Yep. Did I know that when I purchased it? Yep. Are there going to be disappointments down the road (literally and figuratively)? Yep. But after some considerable due diligence I negotiatied a good price and spent a bit more on inspection, preemptive maintenance (all fluids, filters, belts and hoses, lights, and lamps), and repairs to a few issues (wiper motor, transfer case leak, etc.), and new stereo system (I CANNOT go anywhere without tunes!). 

We all make choices and live with the consequences. Nobody put a gun to my head and said I had to buy a T@B 400 and hit the road in a used vehicle. 

Enjoy the search...take your time...you'll end up doing what feels right for you. After that, it's called life. Go live it! 

jrhamel

I thought I read somewhere that if you fill your fresh water tank, because its behind the axle, that it will take like 30 some pounds of weight off of your tongue. Does anyone have info on that?

falcon1970

Any weight added BEHIND the axle will have a negative lever arm and that will decrease tongue weight.  The effective decrease in tongue weight depends on how much weight you add and how far aft of the axle.  Since the fresh water tank in a TAB400 is only about 12 inches aft of the axle and the ball is about 140 inches forward, a full 30 gallon fresh water tank will decrease the ball weight by about 21 pounds.

Cbusguy

Your tongue weight should be 10-15 percent of the gross trailer weight other wise your trailer will behave badly then towing.   

https://youtu.be/w9Dgxe584Ss



Because there is more to the story than just adding weight to the back of the trailer to decrease the tongue weight.    It could be a recipe for disaster

Denny16

Yes, you need the proper tongue weight to,properly balance the trailer, too light and disaster strikes.  The water tank on a TaB400 is mostly over he axles with the gray and black tank forward of them.  You can add water to gray tank to off set any tendency of the water tank to increase weight behind the axle.

 Our 2018 TaB 400 with 1/2 gray and 1/2 water tank, propane bottle, and no added gear in the trailer, the tongue weight measured 400lbs.  A 2019 TaB400 came in with 425 lbs dry, with empty propane bottle.  2020s have a lighter tongue weight around 365 lbs, with the battery and AC all the way back behind the axle, under the rear bunk.  

On pre 2020 models, the AC (Cool Cat) was under the front dinette seat, adding to the tongue weight, and battery was just under the feint part of the rear bunk on the Pax side.  2020 and later TaB400s the batteries (tow AGM 6VDC units) are all the way at the rear of the Bunk, center area, where they counterbalance the front, decreasing the tongue weight.  

So once your trailer is filled with water, gear, etc, go have it weighed, and the tongue weight weighed, if it is not in the 10-20 percent range, than sift your gear to get it there.  If the tongue is light, add some fresh water to the gray Tank to add weight, and when you get to camp, drain it back out.  You can use the fluid tanks to act like shiftable ballast.
cheers

AirBoss

Posted previously. T@B 400 3-way fridge dry (empty twin bottles, spare mounted under A-frame) on two different dedicated tongue weight scales came in at 330#, +/- 5lbs. Not sure where the 400# range came from. Even manufactures own site lists at weight at 318#. 

How does one get to 400# dry tongue weight?

jrhamel

@Airboss, does your 2019 have the AC in the front of the trailer and spare tire under the tongue box? I'm just wondering if later models are any different than early model 2019. 

AirBoss

@jrhamel The A/C is aft and the spare is mounted on A-frame under the box. Initially I thought it was a erroneous reading so I took it to reputable trailer repair shop ( oxymoron, maybe!?) to double-check.

 Next weekend I expect to get the rig weighed wet, TV, 400, and combo. Full twin propanes, H20, food/galley stuffs, full fridge, gear, etc., prior to heading out for week-long trip. Curious what that number is.

jrhamel

@AirBoss, I think that the newer 400s, which I have, might have a higher tongue because it A/C is in the front of the trailer under the drivers side dinette seat. 

Verna

@AirBoss, my tongue weight was 528 lbs with 1 empty and one partial propane tanks plus about a half a tank of water. That was last summer at the factory repair shop.

jrhamel

@Verna, isn't that a bit over the recommended tongue weight of F150. I have the same truck and isn't 500Lbs?

Verna

@jrhamel, not according to my documentation. 

AirBoss

Hey @Verna...clearly there's something amiss here. Your 400 "almost-dry" tongue weight is 528# and my "dry" tongue weight (at dealer p/u with two empty 20# bottles in tongue box, no fluids or gear) is essentially 200# lighter? Maybe my scale guy was high...on something! 

If a T@B 400 Standard Dry Total Gross weight is #2876  and the Dry Tongue Weight is 318#  (per nuCamp specs... thus tongue weight is 11.1% of total gross weight), seems remarkable that your modest propane load and 100# of H2O aft of the axle could bump your tongue weight percentage to over 18%? Am I missing something? 

I'll be the first to admit I'm no Copernicus, but somehow the math isn't adding up. Fun with numbers!   

Verna

@AirBoss, I had one of the guys working in the repair garage with Austin check it and tell me. No, I did not watch. I guess I’m going to have to weigh it myself. 

Mine was built in June of 2018, before nüCamp found discrepancies with the listed tongue weights. The actual tongue weights were more than listed. 

And, I had a lot of stuff still in the 400 when they measured it, so it was not dry weight. 

VictoriaP

jrhamel said:

@Verna, isn't that a bit over the recommended tongue weight of F150. I have the same truck and isn't 500Lbs?

Verna said:

@jrhamel, not according to my documentation. 

Because I’ve been eyeing the F-150 as a possible new tow vehicle, I did some digging on this. In the documentation I found, Ford says that without a weight distribution hitch, the tongue weight limit is 500, whether towing with the step bumper hitch or the add on hitch receiver. If using the hitch receiver and a WDH, the limit jumps to 800 for the Raptor and 1320 for other F-150 models. @Verna, would love to know if yours differs somehow? 500 just seems low, and needing a WDH for such a small trailer (assuming I move up to a 400) seems crazy to me.

Also, if this isn’t correct, would love to hear otherwise. I’m still debating whether to go truck or SUV (yes, I’ve read all the arguments on both).

Hopefully this chart is still readable after resizing the image, if not, it was found here: https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/resources/general/pdf/guides/20Towing_Ford_F150_Oct15.pdf

jkjenn

The folks at Princess Craft did a nice job explaining trailer weights and why there can be apparent discrepancies.

https://rvsmalltalk.com/ep-38/

bergger

Wow that seems like an extremely low tongue weight for a 1/2 ton truck.  Are the springs on the F150 that soft? My old Tacoma had a higher tongue weight and my current Nissan Titan has a capacity just over 900 lbs.  Just surprising to me.