What is Gross Trailer Weight and Dry Tongue Weight of 2019 T@B 400 with Fridge and Microwave?

JEB

Awca12a said:

@JEB @falcon1970
Tech Support at nuCAMP assured me that the Harris batteries were installed in the trailers at least starting in November and I confirmed with Harris directly that they were supplying them.   The attached spec sheet I was e-mailed is what I used when writing up the equipment & boondocking data sheets in the resource guide.  Can't comment about anything else regarding what nuCAMP may have used before or after my install.

@Awca12a
Thank you!  This is tremendously helpful.  I am now able to set the correct absorption and float charge voltages.  Harris appears not to have specified equalization voltages, equalization frequency or temperature compensation.  But you have given me the important stuff. Much obliged!

Sharon_is_SAM

AGM batteries in general do not need equalization.  Typically, only wet lead acid batteries require equalization.

JEB

Sharon_is_SAM said:

AGM batteries in general do not need equalization.  Typically, only wet lead acid batteries require equalization.

Generally true.  Some manufacturers do recommend equalization, however, even for AGMs.  US Battery recommends equalization at the absorption voltage every 30-days for 1-3 hours.

Oldcootcamper

falcon1970 said:

@Awca12a
It is somewhat like a Chinese puzzle box--move this piece a quarter of an inch, move that piece to the left, slide that other piece out, etc.
The batteries sit under the bed on the passenger side, totally enclosed in a two piece rubber box partially buried into the floor of the cargo hatch.  Uncovering the batteries entails removing about eight wood screws of varying lengths, undoing a hose clamp for the upper ventilation air exhaust, and disconnecting the positive and negative power cables.  After releasing the quick-clips on the hold-down straps, the batteries can be lifted out.  Not lifted out easily mind you.  While lighter than lead-acid batteries, they are still heavy and there is no graceful way to pick them up out of the tray.  Fortunately, with care and a little luck, battery replacement is probably several years down the road.
And I agree that the trailer is probably built around the batteries.

I simply want to install the BMV 712 - I assume I’ll have to go through the entire process above sans the actual battery removal?

atlasb

The big 12v battery in our 2018 400 went belly up a couple weeks ago.  Talked to Harris battery and they no longer carry the AGM 4d single 12 volt.  They also said they do not supply the US Battery.  Thought I saw it in their add.  Quoted me a price on the 6 volt AGM at $375 each.  Contacted Interstate and they have the AGM 4d at 200 AH for $515 plus tax.  They have the 6 v for $325 each.  Ordered the 12v and is comparable in size, is sealed not needing venting and comes in at about 121 lbs compared to the 138 for the harris battery.  Now to install it.  Also, Interstate has a large network of dealers so much easier to deal with than Harris.

Oldcootcamper

Just took my brand new TAB 400 to my “hitch guy” and the tongue weight came out to be 467. I have the microwave and small refrigerator.   He was quite surprised, apparently as are others.  Given the weight definitely need a WDH.  In talking with several manufactures of these we ended up going with a WHD for a 6000lb trailer and 600lb tongue weight apparently because they were concerned with what he termed a disproportionate tongue weight and the short distance from the hitch ball to the tub. At first he thought I’d have to remove the tub. 

I’m getting this installed Friday. I hope it works or I’ll have to buy a bigger TV even though the 2018 Highlander with the factory installed tow package is rated for 5000/500 - or sell my never used Tab400. 

jgram2

@Oldcootcamper, is yours a 400 Boondock or Boondock Lite?

Oldcootcamper

jgram2 said:

@Oldcootcamper, is yours a 400 Boondock or Boondock Lite?

Boondock lite

ChrisFix

jgram2 said:

@Oldcootcamper, is yours a 400 Boondock or Boondock Lite?

There is no 400 Boondock model...Just the regular T@B 400, and the T@B 400 Boondock Lite.

jgram2

@ChrisFix Thanks, I wondered about that even as I asked the question. 

ADRawli

I just put this quick “cheat sheet” together.  If I have a measured tongue weight of 475, and then assume that to be a worst case 15% of my towing lbs value, it looks like I’d hope/need to be at least loaded with an additional 477 lbs of water,food, bedding, dishes, clothing, gear, etc.  If that is the tongue weight of an empty 400 BDL, it would be about 17.7% of the BDLs 2690 dry weight and outside the recommended range.  
In the best intentioned and happy manner possible, I’d just challenge us all a bit, though.  What is the “magic” of 15%, and is being over that by 1 lb suddenly a disaster looming upon me?  How about 10 lbs, 30 lbs, or even 71lbs?  As long as you’re safely in your TV tongue weight range, and you cautiously test the behavior of your trailer (I towed mine empty for 600 miles on the day I picked it up— it tracked straight as an arrow, stopped as it should — handled great), those guidelines seem to need be taken with a bit of logic and common sense.  Please don’t take my opinion on this as any kind of gospel or even criticism.  If you feel unsafe towing at 15.1%, then don’t.  But for me, I think I’m just going camping and enjoy my wonderfully handling and thoroughly enjoyable setup vs worrying about 2%.  YMMV. 😃

Oldcootcamper

Good points ADRawli - and thanks for the chart. I think the overall issue is that when you're a newbie to RVing, towing and the whole thing like me it's a matter of trying to soak up as much info as possible and thinking I bought a trailer that's pretty small and easily towable - and then to find out you need to be really concerned about all this.....well, it all gets a bit daunting.

In the end I think I'll be ok with my Highlander around the state of Wisconsin for the next few  years. No mountains, not many hills and no long dirt roads to haul this behind.  When I retire in a few years and get to to the longer trips hopefully in the west -  it will be time to buy another vehicle anyway - and then I can get the big ole truck!

ADRawli

Oops, just realized that the 3700 lb number in my cheatsheet is GVWR, not GAWR.   It’s the right number, just the wrong acronym.  T@B 400 BDL GVWR = 3700 lbs.

ADRawli

@Oldcootcamper I certainly understand.  I hope I didn’t come across as being insensitive to what others likely see as a safety concern.  It’s just that we as humans like (and need) to quantify and bucketize things (including me... hey I even built a dang spreadsheet!).  But, it’s kind of like I always ask my wife when we get into similar conversations.  I liken it to the difference between the worst person in Heaven and the best person in Hell.  That difference isn’t very big, but it sure seems like the result is.   Is this that kind of thing or something much more “linear”?  Anyway, I don’t feel such a small difference has anything but a small impact.  Now, don’t go throwing a stack of AGM batteries and your son’s weight set on the LPG tub.  That might cause a problem.   😁

jgram2

@ADRawli Language does evolve, even on a teardrop forum-a brand new verb-Bucketize, sort of a Marie Kondo approach to T@BBing. If you don’t mind I’ll be using that, giving you props of course.

ADRawli

@jgram2. Feel free to “Bucketize” to your heart’s content.  

SactoSteve

robyn769 said:

I just called my dealer back and he said his NuCamp rep said this (after I asked him to press to make sure 475 is right) "I know the tongue weight is 475 because we just weighed them and we are concerned and we are trying to figure out what to do." 

Idle comments, as I impatiently await arrival of my tongue weight scale,...  Unfortunately, numerous dealers online sites are labeling 2018 specs as 2019. Probably because nüCamp doesn’t seem to have published 2019 specs? The 2018 tongue wt (about 385#s) is reasonable for a 3800 weight trailer. 475 is, shall we say,... “unexpected”!

Cbusguy

@SactoSteve I will say the same thing to you that I said to robyn,   If you are counting single pounds or ounces to meet a spec written on a piece of paper you are creating a marginally safe tow situation,  if not a dangerous one. 

Reading your other post I believe you know deep inside that what your are trying to do is right at the edge of what your TV can handle.      

Just remember if things go bad towing,  it could impact more than just you.

SactoSteve

Well aware, thank you.

SactoSteve

Cbusguy said:

 you know deep inside that what your are trying to do is right at the edge of what your TV can handle.

Just curious what you think it is I’m trying to do?

JEB

SactoSteve said:

Cbusguy said:

 you know deep inside that what your are trying to do is right at the edge of what your TV can handle.

Just curious what you think it is I’m trying to do?

Rationalize the use of a tow vehicle unsuitable to the task.  I did it too, when I first started out in this recreational activity, so I know what it looks like.

SactoSteve

😄 nope, but thats not an unreasonable assumption.  I’m just trying to understand the problem space and fix what I can. Frankly, I think its doable, but we will see. 😉

b407driver

SactoSteve said:

robyn769 said:

I just called my dealer back and he said his NuCamp rep said this (after I asked him to press to make sure 475 is right) "I know the tongue weight is 475 because we just weighed them and we are concerned and we are trying to figure out what to do." 

Idle comments, as I impatiently await arrival of my tongue weight scale,...  Unfortunately, numerous dealers online sites are labeling 2018 specs as 2019. Probably because nüCamp doesn’t seem to have published 2019 specs? The 2018 tongue wt (about 385#s) is reasonable for a 3800 weight trailer. 475 is, shall we say,... “unexpected”!

nuCamp did at some point update the 2019 tongue weight value to 460# (don't recall if that was wet or dry). Unfortunately their updating of informational materials leaves a bit to be desired, but I did notice that they updated their website recently, and there is some new (albeit sparse) info on there. 

I've noticed that many 2019-looking units are being labelled as 2020 units on dealer websites, but I have no idea if they are just loose with their listings (or re-using stock images), or nuCamp started releasing 2020 VIN numbers before all of the 2020 changes were implemented on the line. That being said, it seems that it is mostly the non-Boondock Lite models that appear (in pictures) 'older' than they should.

SactoSteve

Some tongue weight data points on our 2019 T@B 400 (not a boondock)

We tow with a 2018 Audi Q5.  The 400s weight is within the Audi tow capacity and it tows real nice, but the “rumored” tongue weight (470 - 525#) exceeds the Audi spec value of 440#.  So, I’ve been curious what the actual tongue weight was.
I received a tongue weight scale today and took some measurements.  

The trailer was/is mostly loaded for a trip (pots, pans, other kitchen stuff, bedding, trailer gear. But without clothes and what little food we might bring) blk, gray, fresh empty, propane full. we travel pretty light.

I calibrated the new scale against my body weight. Matched the bathroom scale to 10th of a pound, so, good enough. 😉

Baseline reading 420.6 (with an asterisk)*
* when I got the water filler out of the storage area I neglected to replace the “trailer stuff” tray (tools, hitch ball, wheel lock etc.) when I double checked the baseline weight, before filling the freshwater the weight was 429. When I returned the tray the baseline weight returned to 420.6. I guess the stuff in the storage area does provide a fair amount of counter balance.

The following are cumulative weight reductions,
Filled freshwater tank. 420.4
Removed spare 393.4
Relocated spare to below bed storage 387.6
Removed propane tank 356.4

bottomline-
Our 2019 T@B 400 seems to be well within towing capacity of the Q5, even without removing the propane tank.

your milage may vary.

Blueespy

ADRawli said:

I just put this quick “cheat sheet” together.  If I have a measured tongue weight of 475, and then assume that to be a worst case 15% of my towing lbs value, it looks like I’d hope/need to be at least loaded with an additional 477 lbs of water,food, bedding, dishes, clothing, gear, etc.  If that is the tongue weight of an empty 400 BDL, it would be about 17.7% of the BDLs 2690 dry weight and outside the recommended range.  
In the best intentioned and happy manner possible, I’d just challenge us all a bit, though.  What is the “magic” of 15%, and is being over that by 1 lb suddenly a disaster looming upon me?  How about 10 lbs, 30 lbs, or even 71lbs?  As long as you’re safely in your TV tongue weight range, and you cautiously test the behavior of your trailer (I towed mine empty for 600 miles on the day I picked it up— it tracked straight as an arrow, stopped as it should — handled great), those guidelines seem to need be taken with a bit of logic and common sense.  Please don’t take my opinion on this as any kind of gospel or even criticism.  If you feel unsafe towing at 15.1%, then don’t.  But for me, I think I’m just going camping and enjoy my wonderfully handling and thoroughly enjoyable setup vs worrying about 2%.  YMMV. 😃

I agree with you, just enjoy camping.  We pulled our 2019 T@B400 BDL with a 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk 16k from FL to AK and home again.  In the trailer tub storage we had the minimum; propane, black sewer hose, chocks, and rack for sewer hose.  In the back of our jeep we had a 50qt ARB fridge, two duffles of clothes, along with some odds and ends.  We had a Thule on the roof with two chairs, a carpet, our small gas grill, and two trekking poles.  Just before the trip we installed a sway bar.  Never had an issue, the trailer tracked true and we had no issue braking.  We've recently purchased two RAD Power Bikes and I'm considering whether to mount my wife's (the smaller bike) in front of the tub.  The bike and mounting frame would probably add 70lbs.  

Denny16

Our 2018 Dec TaB4 tongue wt is 410 lbs, with water tank at 50%, holding tanks empty, propane gas empty, and a 121 lbs Interstate AGM 12VDC battery mounted under the middle rear part of the bed.  

It seems a tongue weight of 380-475 lbs is in range of safe towing limits for the TaB 400.
cheers

N7SHG_Ham

Opinion only and worth what you paid, but I think being too light is an issue and can cause sway, being a bit heavy as long as your tow vehicle hitch and axles aren't overloaded probably isn't end of world. At some point you do overload the frame of the tab too. Those are all considerations, but being a little heavy is better than light as long as weights are under specs all way around.

Denny16

Agreed.

Blueespy

ADRawli said:

I just put this quick “cheat sheet” together.  If I have a measured tongue weight of 475, and then assume that to be a worst case 15% of my towing lbs value, it looks like I’d hope/need to be at least loaded with an additional 477 lbs of water,food, bedding, dishes, clothing, gear, etc.  If that is the tongue weight of an empty 400 BDL, it would be about 17.7% of the BDLs 2690 dry weight and outside the recommended range.  
In the best intentioned and happy manner possible, I’d just challenge us all a bit, though.  What is the “magic” of 15%, and is being over that by 1 lb suddenly a disaster looming upon me?  How about 10 lbs, 30 lbs, or even 71lbs?  As long as you’re safely in your TV tongue weight range, and you cautiously test the behavior of your trailer (I towed mine empty for 600 miles on the day I picked it up— it tracked straight as an arrow, stopped as it should — handled great), those guidelines seem to need be taken with a bit of logic and common sense.  Please don’t take my opinion on this as any kind of gospel or even criticism.  If you feel unsafe towing at 15.1%, then don’t.  But for me, I think I’m just going camping and enjoy my wonderfully handling and thoroughly enjoyable setup vs worrying about 2%.  YMMV. 😃

From nuCamp dated 11 March 2020 "​Our paperwork shows that the 2019 TAB 400 BDL with a 3 way fridge(the heaviest dry tongue weight is 3075 pounds. This comes out to 461 pounds of allowable tongue weight."  Our TV is a 2020 Jeep Grand Cherokee High Altitude with a 6500 tow capacity and 700 tongue capacity (according to the sticker on the factory installed tow package).  Just did a 2000 mile trip and had no issues.  Had pulled this same trailer 16K miles last year on a 3xmonth trip with a 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk with no issues.  My reasoning for jumping in here is, we now have two ebikes that combined weight about 130lbs.  I would like to mount the lightest (65lbs) on the tongue, between the storage tub and jack.  I "don't think" this would be a factor but welcome thoughts/comments/suggestions from the forum or you.

Denny16

If your TV can handle the extra tongue weight, shouldn’t be an issue, as long as the trailer frame in the front is not over stressed.
cheers