T@B 400 2019 Tongue Weight

Awca12a

Going to get the scale tested. 

BigGrover

@Awca12a, i just don't see a way to change it much.  If you took out the propane and removed the spare you might get a 40 lb decrease.  I think the thing to do is get a scale weight to see what the total trailer weight is.  It's strange that yours is coming in 80 lbs heavier than my tongue weight.   I had maybe 35-40 lbs of stuff stored under the bed.  I had all my cabinets stocked and have the microwave option with small fridge.  We might need to email Creed at Nucamp.  If our tongue weights from the factory exceed the 15% ratio it could be something they need to address to prevent liability issues. Iheard they changed the floor material because of the buckling issues, wonder if it is 2-3 times more heavier?  The dinette tables is extremely heavy, might go with something lighter there too. Even though a WDH does not decrease tongue weight it better distributes the weight across all three axles and may negate the tongue weight ratio issue, may need to ask Equal-I-Lizer about that.

N7SHG_Ham

I always took that 15% tongue weight as something to shoot for so you don't get sway, the only argument I have seen for NOT being heavier is to not overload the TV hitch and axle specs.

As long as your TV can take the weight, is there any handling issues that crop up while towing a heavy tongue trailer like there is with sway with too light of tongue?

BigGrover

@Awca12a, see my post on the WDH thread.  I don't think you used the tongue weight scale properly if I am seeing the picture correctly.  The scale needs to be under the coupler, not the tongue  jack.  It is a lever and fulcrum thing, the lever Trailer tongue) engages the bumper at the hitch ball, not the tongue jack.  You are shorting yourself on the lever by the distance from the coupler to the jack.  I bet it makes a fair amount of difference.

Awca12a

With the benefit of the reminder above from @BigGrover that I needed to use the tongue and not the hitch, the result was right around 490#.  I leave it to your interpretation from the photo below.  The scale was first warmed to 74-degrees and tested with 190# and 240# of known weights.  Trailer A-frame and Shirline scale was checked with a torpedo level.   Base was a tubular steel T-Post hammer dug into frozen ground.

BigGrover

@Awca12a that's exactly how mine did.  Might be the perfect TW depending on the overall trailer wright!  Glad I noticed the jack foot in the pic. Now you should feel better about the tongue weight!.  I think with your 3013 and the Equal-I-Lizer you might be ok towing.  I would try it and see.

JEB

Perfect!  If you decide to carry a full fresh tank, that should back a little more weight off the tongue.  

Awca12a

Problem is the hitch is 100# so I’m over if it use it and I can’t tow without it per Toyota. 

[Deleted User]

I still suggest dropping the spare, and the mounting bar if you still need to get the tongue weight down. You can carry the spare at mid-point in your TV to take the weight of the rear axle.  Also, you "could" try storing the tire under the bed in the back, BUT, you don't want to have more than 40% of your weight in the rear end, so you would have to limit what else you store back there. 

[Deleted User]

Also.....I was told that even though the hitch itself may weigh 100lbs that the distribution aspect of how it works definitely does not convey the same amount of weight onto the rear axle.  I'm not an engineer by any stretch, but that's what I read/heard somewhere. 

JEB

robyn769 said:

I still suggest dropping the spare, and the mounting bar if you still need to get the tongue weight down. You can carry the spare at mid-point in your TV to take the weight of the rear axle.  Also, you "could" try storing the tire under the bed in the back, BUT, you don't want to have more than 40% of your weight in the rear end, so you would have to limit what else you store back there. 

I disagree with this advice.  The spare takes up valuable real estate everywhere except where it is right now.  It takes up the entire back bay for all practical purposes (I saw it there prior to the dealer prep) and these trailers are already tight on storage space.  

At some point, the number of changes and modifications required to make something functional actually becomes a strong signal that you have the wrong equipment.  Cut your losses and do it right.  

[Deleted User]

https://jack-e-up.com/

This will save you some weight too...directly on the tongue. Just put the jack in the TV mid-point. 

BigGrover

@Robyn769 which mount did you order for your T@b Jackeup?? Did you have to modify it any?

[Deleted User]

It was on my 2015 Little Guy SMAX aka the NuCamp 320, but I think it would be the same one still for the 400.  I'm pretty sure I got the universal one and no mods what so ever.  It was the most simple mod I have ever done.

treefrog

Feeling kind of dumb here.
I weighed our trailer again, this time at the tongue instead of the jack.
Full bottle of propane all other tanks empty, microwave, larger fridge, minimal amount of extra gear. 440lbs. I can live with this weight. 

[Deleted User]

Wow!! This is the best weight I've seen for the 400 with the large fridge and microwave.  This is great news!

N7SHG_Ham

Over in the FB group a snip from the 2018 400 specs was posted, 325 listed for tongue weight. Has there been that much change on the 2019's or was that 325 way too low from the git go? It is a long way from 325 to 460 or whatever is showing today!!

Awca12a

treefrog said:

Feeling kind of dumb here.
I weighed our trailer again, this time at the tongue instead of the jack.
Full bottle of propane all other tanks empty, microwave, larger fridge, minimal amount of extra gear. 440lbs. I can live with this weight. 

What are the specs for your trailer?
year?
boondock?

treefrog

Not a boondock, 2019 model, micro, 3 way fridge. I have gear under bed. I will weigh again without gear on thursday and report back.

PeteRissler

I would like to see the weight fully loaded with at least the fresh water tank full.

nbrandt

I really give thanks for this thread.  We have a new 2018 T@B 400 and knew that we had to change our TV, but your sharing has had a huge influence on our looking. 

Something else to keep in mind that hasn't been mentioned here - remember that tongue weight also has an effect on Cargo Capacity of the TV.  If your TV has a cargo capacity of 1200# and you have 500# of tongue weight, that has just lowered the cargo (people and items that you carry in the vehicle) to 700#.  Four people and suitcases can easily add up to 700#.

I have looked very, very hard at the new Ford Ranger.  It claims 7000# towing capacity and 700# tongue weight - which seems to answer all of the concerns on this thread.  I am just frightened of the 2.3 inline 4 cyl. even though it is turbo charged.  Is anyone towing with this new vehicle yet and can you tell me if is satisfactory?

BigGrover

@nbrandt, If that engine was a diesel I might consider it.  I have some grave concerns about an engine that small holding up in the long term towing much at all.  Yeah, my son disagrees with me, it's all revs and torque to him but it has got to be a lot of heat, wear and tear over the long haul IMHO.  My 6 cylinder 4L Frontier pulled our 400 almost as well as my Ram Hemi.  But as for my opinions, I'm 70 and grew up with Detroit Iron! My son's Focus Sport had a 2.3 or 2.4 L turbo in it and it had to spool up some before the torque kicked in.  He was mightily impressed, when I push the pedal on my Frontier or Hemi there ain't no lag time or spooling up.

treefrog

Tacoma tows 6800#
I bought a first year Ford Transit, lots of problems...lots.
I would wait a few years to let them work out the bugs.

[Deleted User]

I talked to the go-to-guy at BAL/Norco (T@B trailer frame manufacturer), Ryan Emil (574-612-4948) about the use of a weight distribution hitch with the 400 and he wouldn't say a whole lot about specific types of brackets. He said the main issue is not the twisting of the trailer frame where the brackets are attached. He said the problem is when people over torque the hitch trying to get level (or use one that is too large) and this puts heavy upward pressure on the A frame area which in turn puts upward pressure on the front wall of the camper.  He said the WDH is more likely to cause the A section of the trailer to bow upward and not so much twist.  

1968Healey

@treefrog, The ‘new’ Ford Ranger is actually the Ford Ranger that has been available in every non-US country for years now.  The model is so ‘old’ that they’re refreshing it in 2020.

Awca12a

Having started this thread, I wanted to provide some level of closure to anyone still reading and interested in the problem.  The CEO Scott Hubble is personally involved and has reached out on multiple occasions with an obvious commitment to customer satisfaction for both present and future T@B400 owners.   They are working on a fix and will likely get it sorted out.  

Given our timeline, we changed the TV from a 4Runner to an F150 and couldn't be happier as the F150's today handle like cars and are a pleasure to drive.   This pushes the tongue weight problem down the road a bit and we will be running the new set-up, configured with a full water tank, over the CAT scale to determine once and for all by a 3rd party what the weight is ready to go.  Will be bringing along a length of heavy boat chain to stuff into the dirty water hose as ballast to see how that changes the tongue.  The fix might be as simple as that.  

Anyone with suggestions for other ideas while at the CAT scale, please post your ideas.
It truly is a pleasure working with a manufacturer you can get behind.

N7SHG_Ham

I can't recall if a CAT scale has resolution fine enough to be meaningful for our little weights or not? Most truck scales that the DOT runs for commercial vehicles has +/- 50 pounds, so adding ballast in form of a chain may not even move the needle?

2ndly almost all scales are most accurate mid range, so for a truck scale such as a CAT, that is going to be maybe around 50000 pounds. A Tab and tow vehicle is typically going to be maybe 10,000, maybe even less so not exactly in mid range of a scale designed to weigh 100000+ pounds.

This all may/may not be relevant or it might be for folks trying to prove they got their hitch weight below some number they are striving for.

[Deleted User]

This is helpful as I was considering going to a big commercial scale to weigh my Jeep. It's probably not worth it. 

Awca12a

@N7SHG_Ham
your post confused me so instead of me commenting, I’m posting a link below for anyone interested in scale accuracy in the form of an independent analysis done by some curious about what the scales would tell them.  
I’m comfortable following a many year tradition of RV owners in relying on CAT scales with their 20lb variance.  
With my F150, the point has become moot but I’d like to close the loop here one way or another. 

https://fifthwheelst.com/commercial-truck-scales-vs-portable-scales-for-weighing-rvs.html

jgram2

Aren’t scales certified by a DOT investigator? Perhaps a call would identify if there’s a place for our lightweight trailers.